Raiding with Fel Eruption

[Synthium]

So recently I was looking at some top guilds Gul'Dan mythic kills and have noticed that some of them (Spookiedh, Vivye etc) were using Fel Eruption instead of Nemesis. First reason that came to mind was that it's kinda similar to Nemesis in damage but allows for bigger flexibility on target switching because Nemesis is cancer for target switching. So I have tried it on mythic Botanist with my guild yesterday and found it very, very similar in damage output while being tons more flexible.

Botanist example would be Naturalist being close to dying when my 2 cds come back up (neme and blades) so you don't want to use it because he will die soon and you WON'T get a damage bonus (which is retarded) to Humanoids and if you don't, you lose uptime and DPS as a result.

So if anyone was still skeptical, I'd advise giving it a try, it's a very good talent now.

[Temp name]

In reference to Botanist:
Do the bosses not actually die? I'll admit I never really paid attention to it, I just assumed they did.

[Lucetia]

Granted I haven't raided anything serious with it much, but I've personally enjoyed it (even outside raids). Momentum is nice, but I feel like I mess up more trying to maximize the buff. Nemesis would be ok for a burst window (I assume, haven't actually tried it). I went with Fel Eruption then which provides a good chunk of damage since the bosses are immune and on mobs that aren't it offers another stun which can be useful on some things (such as needing another interrupt for whatever reason).

[Synthium]

In reference to Botanist:
Do the bosses not actually die? I'll admit I never really paid attention to it, I just assumed they did.

On mythic, the boss starts with all 3 mobs up and when they die, it does not count as the actual DEATH, so no, unfortunately not and that takes one more point from Nemesis in terms of flexibility.

Granted I haven't raided anything serious with it much, but I've personally enjoyed it (even outside raids). Momentum is nice, but I feel like I mess up more trying to maximize the buff. Nemesis would be ok for a burst window (I assume, haven't actually tried it). I went with Fel Eruption then which provides a good chunk of damage since the bosses are immune and on mobs that aren't it offers another stun which can be useful on some things (such as needing another interrupt for whatever reason).

Momentum is nice for dungeons, Nemesis is just boring but kinda gave the most damage in the long run. With increased mastery though, Fel Mastery pulls some really nice and competitive numbers.

[ufta]

Fel Eruption is a lot better than people think. I had never used it until the first week in Nighthold while we were wiping on Guldan. The primary problem we were having was not killing the empowered eyes fast enough, so I switched to FE hoping it would help to burst those down.
What I discovered was that FE often accounted for 12-14% of my total dmg. That is very competitive. I've tried it on a few other fights as well. It's not garbage like many seem to think.

[Temp name]

On mythic, the boss starts with all 3 mobs up and when they die, it does not count as the actual DEATH, so no, unfortunately not and that takes one more point from Nemesis in terms of flexibility.

Oh god, I hate it when mobs just go away instead of actually dying.
Might consider giving FE a try for when we get back to Botanist then

[DeuZWw]

on some fights its really good. even if its a DPS Loss it gives back in utility, mainly on fight with Ads.

Much like Demonic Build vs DemonBlades. DemonBlades might be the best DPS overall. But Demonic gives you better AoE, MUCH better survivability and it's less dependant on burst windows.

Also, worth noting that on Demonic Builds if you have some mastery Chaos Cleave actually sim higher than Blade Dance. Might be worth to lose 40~~60k dps to have the extra survivability and AoE on some fights, and Chaos Cleave makes your survivability even better because of the increase on souls.

Having a TOP dps is good, but its not everything. Fel Eruption can be even better than Nemesis on some fights where you can't hit the same target for the full nemesis duration.

[Synthium]

on some fights its really good. even if its a DPS Loss it gives back in utility, mainly on fight with Ads.

Much like Demonic Build vs DemonBlades. DemonBlades might be the best DPS overall. But Demonic gives you better AoE, MUCH better survivability and it's less dependant on burst windows.

Also, worth noting that on Demonic Builds if you have some mastery Chaos Cleave actually sim higher than Blade Dance. Might be worth to lose 40~~60k dps to have the extra survivability and AoE on some fights, and Chaos Cleave makes your survivability even better because of the increase on souls.

Having a TOP dps is good, but its not everything. Fel Eruption can be even better than Nemesis on some fights where you can't hit the same target for the full nemesis duration.

Yeah but FE is not really a DPS loss over Nemesis. It is in raw theory, where during Nemesis windows you're never fury starved and you rotate your spells seamlessly without breaks and periods of autoattacking but we know it rarely happens. A huge part of what made Momentum a better option (and if they didn't nerf the uptime, would still be better even if Nemesis was buffed) is that it was a buff on yourself with which you could target switch without any problems. FE gives you that flexibility back and much more, and if even half of them crits, it's right below Chaos Strike (which means it's your 2nd damage source). So in theory Nemesis should be a couple of percent ahead, but only if you have good RNG. If you don't, or don't have the ring (like I don't, fu blizzard) you're pretty good with FE.

[Roshar]

On Botanist, the Lashers are classified as Humanoid, so use Nemesis on them and you'll get the full benefit of it for all the mobs (except spheres).

[Rotted]

Granted I haven't raided anything serious with it much, but I've personally enjoyed it (even outside raids). Momentum is nice, but I feel like I mess up more trying to maximize the buff. Nemesis would be ok for a burst window (I assume, haven't actually tried it). I went with Fel Eruption then which provides a good chunk of damage since the bosses are immune and on mobs that aren't it offers another stun which can be useful on some things (such as needing another interrupt for whatever reason).

Nemesis, Chaos blades.... Meta (bonus points if you have it on 2 min cd).... You burst insane, I'm on 884 severely under crit cap and I can pop out 700-850k depending on the fight. But Annihilation crits between 1.2-1.5 million, its insane.

[Zasriel]

FE on CD on or outside of Meta only? I.E. Delaying first FE usage until after initial Meta expires?

- - - Updated - - -

On Botanist, the Lashers are classified as Humanoid, so use Nemesis on them and you'll get the full benefit of it for all the mobs (except spheres).

This sounds absurdly useful. Thanks for the tip!

[Kals]

On Botanist, the Lashers are classified as Humanoid, so use Nemesis on them and you'll get the full benefit of it for all the mobs (except spheres).

I... I think I love you.

[Temp name]

On Botanist, the Lashers are classified as Humanoid, so use Nemesis on them and you'll get the full benefit of it for all the mobs (except spheres).

Please have my children

[Deleted]

On Botanist, the Lashers are classified as Humanoid, so use Nemesis on them and you'll get the full benefit of it for all the mobs (except spheres).

Holy crap, this is amazing!

[ItachiZaku]

I've been on FE since I started by DH. An extra stun that can deal a fuck ton of damage... hells yeah.

[Mamut]

Simc shows me 40k dps loss over nemesis. Im not sure if its really worth taking.

[Lifenite]

I messed with it last night on Elisande and Gul'dan. If you lose any time on nemesis from target switching then you can get the same or more dps out of fel eruption. I find it a very, very viable option for both fights. But Im not sure I would use it anywhere else.

Plus those 4.7mil crits to Gul'dans face.

[Deleted]

Ofc t sims lower than nemesis, otherwise we would use it instead of nemesis, but in mythic gul'dan there's never time for full duration use for nemesis unless u go padding mode and don't switch to priority targets. OK in last phase u can almost tunnel mode illidan while just aoe down parasites, but even there u get like 15 seconds of huge damage on illidan and there my fel eruption crit 15million, wonder could have nemesis beat that.

When gul'dan is on farm and everyone is in bis gear with 915 equipped ilvl logs will be done with nemesis, priority target damage will still be done with fel eruption.

[Tiorda]

A lot of M Gul'Dan strats call for stopping DPS. This is a point against Nemesis. There is also fairly frequent target switching... another point against Nemesis. FE is excellent burst for the adds too. It ain't rocket surgery.

[Forde]

I dunno man, fel eruption is a ST spell that does a lot of damage yeah, but most bosses in NH have adds in them so momentum and Nemesis are simply going to be better. The talent has been useless since the start = /

Even removing the fury/pain cost wouldn't change that.
Perhaps reducing it to 20 sec CD might or giving the spell some component that gives you a small buff. Like "the fel risidue left behind by your fel eruption empowers you, granting 1000 mastery for x seconds".

OR, they just have to buff the damage considerably more, like, a lot more.

The point is that when you can't maximize uptime on the boss (elisande, GD, Bot, Chronomatic) while Nemesis is up, FE can pull ahead in terms of overall damage.