Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses

[xenogear3]

You will thank Trump when WW3 happens or Russia invades US.

Or Trump starts WW3.

[Stormdash]

It's a pretty goddamn bizarre state of mind you have you be in to define "freedom" as not having any to meet any level of competency before purchasing a deadly weapon.

We should get rid of driving tests too, I mean, fuck it. Why not?

Nothing is a freedom if you need to run it past the government first. It's the government that bears all burdens of proving it needs to mess with a liberty interest of yours, not the other way around. Any other version, and it's not a right at all.

[AeneasBK]

. Statistics do not back up the removal of rights from people like your neighbor Joe who has mild depression.

There is no issue with limiting what dangerous people can get, but the issue is how to do so without infringing upon the rights of law abiding citizens.

Pretty sure statistics back up the removal of this particular right from everyone; but heyoo, you guys like your to keep your morgues busy I guess.

[Noogai131]

Pretty sure statistics back up the removal of this particular right from everyone; but heyoo, you guys like your to keep your morgues busy I guess.

Oh boy, got any citations on said statistics? The gun control debate has been raging for years, bucko, and nobody has been able to offer a solid reason to limit the rights of law abiding citizens yet. Because that would require law abiding citizens to be the ones causing the deaths, which statistically they aren't.

The only way gun control could work is if it was in a country like Australia, with a fairly low amount of guns in circulation, a fairly low rate of organized crime and being an island nation. It wouldn't work with the amount of illegal weapons in circulation currently in the US.

Speaking of Australia, I'm actually from Australia, I'm just not stupid and understand how this shit works.

[Dug]

Oh boy, got any citations on said statistics? The gun control debate has been raging for years, bucko, and nobody has been able to offer a solid reason to limit the rights of law abiding citizens yet. Because that would require law abiding citizens to be the ones causing the deaths, which statistically they aren't.

Bit of a cop out don't you think? Committing homicide more often than not is a crime ergo not a law abiding citizen. Not to say I'm for crazy strict gun control as a gun owner myself but that seems like silly logic to me.

[Bodakane]

Huh, What?

What's confusing?

You're making it out that poltifact didn't go after certain sites.

[Noogai131]

Bit of a cop out don't you think? Committing homicide more often than not is a crime ergo not a law abiding citizen. Not to say I'm for crazy strict gun control as a gun owner myself but that seems like silly logic to me.

It's just using various stats. Comparing the overall amount of guns in circulation, or the nearest estimate which will be lower than the actual amount but is a close enough estimate, and the amount of people in the US, factoring that together IIRC you'd find that if all gun deaths were caused by law abiding citizens, it equates to less than 0.1% of the overall population.

And, quite clearly, ALL gun owners are not responsible for ALL gun deaths. No one has the specific information on this, info on how many people cause crime with illegal weapons, or stolen legal weapons, compared to law abiding citizens committing crimes. I'd be happy to see it, but we don't have it because it's virtually impossible without a registry, and we've seen time and time again a registry leads to further restrictions and in cases like Australia you lose almost everything to do with that right.

When I say law abiding citizen, I mean up until such point as they murder somebody they are law abiding. Otherwise, yes, it would be a cop out.

[Dug]

It's just using various stats. Comparing the overall amount of guns in circulation, or the nearest estimate which will be lower than the actual amount but is a close enough estimate, and the amount of people in the US, factoring that together IIRC you'd find that if all gun deaths were caused by law abiding citizens, it equates to less than 0.1% of the overall population.

And, quite clearly, ALL gun owners are not responsible for ALL gun deaths. No one has the specific information on this, info on how many people cause crime with illegal weapons, or stolen legal weapons, compared to law abiding citizens committing crimes. I'd be happy to see it, but we don't have it because it's virtually impossible without a registry, and we've seen time and time again a registry leads to further restrictions and in cases like Australia you lose almost everything to do with that right.

When I say law abiding citizen, I mean up until such point as they murder somebody they are law abiding. Otherwise, yes, it would be a cop out.

Ah alright that's what I thought you meant the more I thought about it but thanks for clarifying.

[Lollis]

-Mentally ill people with any felonious criminal history or mental health issues that have warranted interdiction because of violent tendencies will already be barred from purchasing a firearm from the existing system.

I'm sick of this kind of argument. 'Criminals are the bad people, not the populace.'
What is the difference between a criminal and a normal citizen? A crime.

Allowing every single person to have a gun because they have not commited a crime is not how you deal with the distribution of a machine that can kill with one fucking pull of the trigger.

[Noogai131]

I'm sick of this kind of argument. 'Criminals are the bad people, not the populace.'
What is the difference between a criminal and a normal citizen? A crime.

Allowing every single person to have a gun because they have not commited a crime is not how you deal with the distribution of a machine that can kill with one fucking pull of the trigger.

Explain why there's roughly 300000+ gun owners and only ~11000 homicides? Don't get me wrong, that's a lot of deaths, but it seems like an OVERWHELMING majority of the US population seems to be able to understand the boomstick is for fun and not murder.

[AeneasBK]

What is the difference between a criminal and a normal citizen? A crime.

Getting found guilty.

[Sam the Wiser]

Another excellent move by, Trump. The former bill was restricting a freedom that all Americans should of held sacred.

[Adolecent]

We have to be careful when we restrict our natural rights (or God given rights if you are that sort).

No. You just have to be sensible. In every country, just like yours, there is little understanding about the posibilities and risks involved around people with psychiatric disorders. (i work in menthal healthcare, so it's more obvious to me) You just have to check your "weapon-involved" crimefigures against those from other developed countries to see there's something very wrong going on in the US.

[Lollis]

Explain why there's roughly 300000+ gun owners and only ~11000 homicides? Don't get me wrong, that's a lot of deaths, but it seems like an OVERWHELMING majority of the US population seems to be able to understand the boomstick is for fun and not murder.

Most people don't die when they stand on live railway lines, it still isn't a clever thing to do.

[Darkeon]

Good move.

It is quite faulty as it is. Maybe with some tweaks here and there for efficiency.

[Slicer299]

This rule had nothing to due with people with actual mental health problems. It was a pure gun grab designed to take guns away from the elderly and physically disabled just because they need help managing their benefits. An issue that has nothing to do with a person's capacity to handle a gun, making any attempt to keep them from owning a gun illegal.

[Noogai131]

Most people don't die when they stand on live railway lines, it still isn't a clever thing to do.

That doesn't in any way refute what I've stated. You offer a non argument.

If your point is "I understand that statistically gun deaths are actually extremely low in comparison to gun ownership, but I still think people owning guns shouldn't be allowed" you are arguing from a point of illogicality.


The fact of the matter is, the overwhelming majority of Americans understand firearms, respect them and use their rights for completely legal purposes and cause no harm to you or I. I will accept that some measures need to be taken, and I am certain if people came together we could think of logical solutions that would not infringe upon the rights of others while limiting the harm that can be caused.

[Varitok]

Sorry to break the whole "Crazy old Trump" roll we have going in this forum, but weren't there loads of people protesting/campaigning to get this appealed?

From what I gather it was a pretty huge blanket ban on people with all kinds of even slight issues. It just reinforced the idea that anyone with any mental health problems, big or small, was crazy/violent/dangerous.

No body with any mental health issues should own a gun.

[announced]

i'm all for being allowed to purchase weapons, (even people with minor mental problems but within reason)but gun owners should also be required to take some firearm safety classes as well just to prove they are competent with their weapon. Perhaps if everyone was required to take at least 3 safety classes then we would hear less about gun deaths and more about how guns saved the day

[Noogai131]

No body with any mental health issues should own a gun.

You realize that the definition of "mental health issues" includes things like bulimia and anorexia, right?

You want somebody that weighs 70 pounds to not have access to her second amendment rights to own a gun for self defence?

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i'm all for being allowed to purchase weapons, (even people with minor mental problems but within reason)but gun owners should also be required to take some firearm safety classes as well just to prove they are competent with their weapon. Perhaps if everyone was required to take at least 3 safety classes then we would hear less about gun deaths and more about how guns saved the day

Most people going for a CCW permit, the permit to carry a gun in public concealed, are required to take safety and handling courses. I think safety courses should only become mandatory if the state/federal govt wants to pay for them. Just like you shouldn't have to pay to vote, you shouldn't have to pay (outside of the cost of the firearm and taxes upon such) to own a gun.