Ion: It's the Myhic guild leaders fault for burnout

[IceMan1763]

I concede the argument to you. I'm not equipped to argue against stupid.

Nobody here is trying to tell you the the game doesn't have flaws. That would be moronic. But this whole time you've just bashed on the devs, stated that you can do it better but you simply don't have the time to waste doing their work for them, and then proceeded to waste your time being stupid on the internet. Well played sir.

And the fact that you call me stupid also says far more about you than me. You have proceeded to waste your time being a jerk on the internet... how novel.

[Deleted]

The life as hardcore raider has changed a lot and the investment or rather the necessary engagement in Legion is like 1000000% than ever before.

The raids itself doesnt changed a lot. As a hardcore raider you are usually raiding every day in the first weeks of the new content, so it doesnt matter if you do split raids or whatever. The main problem is the stuff what must be done besides the usual progress raid time.

In any patch before it took maybe ~2 or 3 days per character to level to new cap + equip your character with BiS pre raid + completely prepared with consumables and then the only way to improve your character was just raiding. After the progress it took maybe 2 days per week to reclear the instance + split raids in lower difficulties. Until the next progression phase, you have usually months of casual play as hardcore raider.

Now its a full time job even besides the progression phase due to the ap system and wf/tf system (and maybe the legendaries if you are a very unlucky guy without a proper leg until now or new legendaries got implemented which are imba and worth to aim for). Each of your progress relevant character requires so much time off raid / off progress its not worth anymore.

Nothing really different from what wasin vanilla/tbc/wrath days.

You were farming back in the days and now you farm different things.


People still need to understand that myth raider doesnt have to play like they are racing for WF, let the top 5 guild do that as a full time job


WF/TF system is just a "wanna be fix" for people burning too fast the content because if there were any WF/TF people would have just got bored to death after equipping their main or were doing alt shuffling



The real problem is that some people play too much (not the top 5) and therefore they WANT to do ALL ASAP but everytime something new without the issue of BURNING OUT.

Well, this is not that scenario.

[Reveries1]

I dont see a perfect solution that will hit every guild that wants multiple capped alts for progression. I do have an idea for the highest levels.

My idea would be blizzard running the world first race. Guilds would be provided a pool of items that could be used(all accessible items previous to the new content they are doing). opening up additional items after each boss was cleared. Like it is now without the RNG. (This would get rid of split raiding because there would be no need) Items like Artifact weapons could be leveled to max or someplace in between. Guilds could register 30 specific characters to prevent class stacking extremes.

Just a thought.

[Deleted]

OR just remove this cancer idea of "normal" "hc" "myth"

Just do the raid in the old way.



First Boss : EZ

Last Boss : W_T_F

+ "hard mode" like in Ulduar for "extra" gear/epeen/whatever.


You can easily balance the bosses from the "normal" one to the "myth" one, also since xmog introduction people are not giving a fuck about your "gear", leave the WF and TF for the thrill of RNG

You can even re-introduce the 10/25 man size and maybe different loot table like in wrath

Leave an LFR/Scenario mode for the bonobos


the rest is just self-control, stop play like a nolifer 9hours per day and cry if the game ask too much if you wanna do everything on 5 char.

[Deleted]

Can we get a mod to amend the title? Every time I see it, it triggers me.

[zephah]

There are a metric shit ton of straw man arguments in here.

The requirements to compete with world first are substantially out of wack for Legion. Telling people to quit if they want to compete when the grind is absurd this expansion. It's a non-answer and you're actually better off saying nothing.

[getupkid55]

So a bunch of players play basically 24/7 and burn themselves out. The game developer says its your own fault for playing too much. And people in this thread are mad that the game developer isn't hand holding and forcing them to play less? I don't get it.

[xMnCx]

OR just remove this cancer idea of "normal" "hc" "myth"

Just do the raid in the old way.



First Boss : EZ

Last Boss : W_T_F

+ "hard mode" like in Ulduar for "extra" gear/epeen/whatever.


You can easily balance the bosses from the "normal" one to the "myth" one, also since xmog introduction people are not giving a fuck about your "gear", leave the WF and TF for the thrill of RNG

You can even re-introduce the 10/25 man size and maybe different loot table like in wrath

Leave an LFR/Scenario mode for the bonobos


the rest is just self-control, stop play like a nolifer 9hours per day and cry if the game ask too much if you wanna do everything on 5 char.

Yeah, I totally agree (except for the TF/WF part)
Remove the different difficulties, keep the flex (cause that's cool) and remove the Warforged, Thunderforged (meh, WF could stay if it's only +5 ilevels and thats all)
Also rework the leveling, it's a pain in the ass, on Legion you have go to almost all the zones to level an alt ¬¬

[Deleted]

If you want to compete with the top 5 guild you need time, a lot of fucking time, beside the "skill"

if you dont have the time dont bother crying on mmo c

[Deleted]

Nothing really different from what wasin vanilla/tbc/wrath days.

You were farming back in the days and now you farm different things.

I cannot agree. I was always in top raid guilds between vanilla and cataclysm, there was never such a fuck like in legion.

The focus in vanilla/tbc/wrath was on raiding. The only necessary think besides raiding was farming consumables. In vanilla it was tough as non-dps-class - but overall the required time to farm consumables was nothing (absolute max 4 hours per week as a 5 day progress raider) compared to the shit you must farm in legion to stay competitive in the same rank region like in the addons before.

The increased time requirements are not only for the top 10 guilds. Every person has to play much more if they want to stay at the same level pre legion. If you were avg rank 50 in WoD content you need to invest thrice as much time as before to stay at 50 in legion. Guilds with weaker skillz but more time just steal your ranks.

[Deleted]

Yeah, I totally agree.
Remove the different difficulties, keep the flex (cause that's cool) and remove the Warforged, Thunderforged (meh, WF could stay if it's only +5 ilevels and thats all)
Also rework the leveling, it's a pain in the ass, on Legion you have go to almost all the zones to level an alt ¬¬

Levelling is problably the only good things that Blizzard bullseyed since WOD, it is way too easier than vanilla/tbc BUT you have at least to do all the zone (and in any order you like) this is a fine trade since you will literally istant equip your alt at 110 day 1

- - - Updated - - -

I cannot agree. I was always in top raid guilds between vanilla and cataclysm, there was never such a fuck like in legion.

The focus in vanilla/tbc/wrath was on raiding. The only necessary think besides raiding was farming consumables. In vanilla it was tough as non-dps-class - but overall the required time to farm consumables was nothing (absolute max 4 hours per week as a 5 day progress raider) compared to the shit you must farm in legion to stay competitive in the same rank region like in the addons before.

You told it.

Back in Vanilla/TBC there was the farm for consumables, I shiver to remember the vanilla stack train and felwood afternoon farming for root, in legion you have only to farm AP TBH and you already do it with myth+ spam or quest

consumables? just buy at AH
gear? you have like 4 difficulty to farm for getting gear, remember back in vanilla tbc? 4 loots for 40 peeps PER WEEK.


you are not obliged to get 54 asap, ofc you are not even oblige to do myth raiding with less than 34 traits imho


The only things you have to do in Legion tbh is farming AP or get ak 25 and farm AP but since AP is thrown to you for doing anything i dont see a real issue beside the "I MUST BE 54 ASAP BECAUSE MY LIFE DEPENS ON IT!" bs

-------


The "AP FARM" curse could have been handled better imho, like giving a pve version of cooking/fishing daily that award us with +1 skill point,

"Do xy WQ this week" -> +1 free trait

"Do x y z bosses at any diff" -> +1 free trait

just to make a bit more "smooth" the trait farm

[Eapoe]

OR just remove this cancer idea of "normal" "hc" "myth"

Just do the raid in the old way.



First Boss : EZ

Last Boss : W_T_F

+ "hard mode" like in Ulduar for "extra" gear/epeen/whatever.


You can easily balance the bosses from the "normal" one to the "myth" one, also since xmog introduction people are not giving a fuck about your "gear", leave the WF and TF for the thrill of RNG

You can even re-introduce the 10/25 man size and maybe different loot table like in wrath

Leave an LFR/Scenario mode for the bonobos

Hard modes won't happen again as Blizzard posted a long time ago it wouldn't be to difficult to make one for every boss that feels unique. 10/25 won't happen again because of balancing issues. SEperate loot tables also wouldn't work because it brings even more focus to split raiding and "too much" raiding.
Most of the issue comes from the design team making bosses require 50-54 traits and preferring different comps: 1-3 tanks, 3-5 heals, mix of melee vs range. The difference between them is good, but without overgearing the content most raids need to be able to switch specs from boss to boss.

[Chrno]

Fully agree with Ion here.
This game requires you to play allot to reach rank 54. It's very well doable tho.

Doing it on 4 character is utter nuts if you ask me, and you should only do that at your own risk.

[Deleted]

You are not obliged to make an HARD MODE for EVERY Bosses, also isnt hard to make "hard mode" loot table to be MAX +8/+10 itm lvl higher to avoid the "OMG I MUST DO THIS"

10/25 and balancing issue is pretty much a BS because they are just lazy.

Separate loot table and split raiding are issues only if your guild is an hardcore guild, also if we stick to my idea of only 1 difficult isnt really a big issue even for the average joe's


50-54 TRAITS bosses are an issue? hello we are in MARCH 2017 - 6 MONTHS SINCE RELEASE - if you arent at 50 with 25AK, you are literally not even raiding so why bother? This cuckhold behavior of "I deserve all with the min effort" is so stupid.

[ButterBeast]

That seems at the very least quite unlikely considering basically every raid since forever needs or ends up with targeted nerfs to approach the total clear numbers they seem to want for now.
Six months is an incredibly long time even for "only" three days of progression and it takes a very specific and rare type of player to last for months on the same encounters without simply quitting it in between content patches. To me it's a wonder how all those guilds who are stuck on something like krosus up until now are even surviving they surely must have wasted already 150 pulls on an essentially trivial encounter. Star Augur and elisandre probably are double that each. Imagine that kind of losing continuing till mid June that's insane.
Cry me a river.

Don't dish out nonsense if you're gonna get upset.

[cFortyfive]

If you want to compete with the top 5 guild you need time, a lot of fucking time, beside the "skill"

You need vastly more time as well outside the top 5 but I kinda feel like you are one of those who are still salty over losing 10s so have my handkerchief for that.
Classes want to change to a better spec for progression, need suitable legendaries and believe it or not running all difficulties of available raids like you suggested costs quite a bit of time as well outside of regular raid hours. I'd take the safe and straightforward vanilla grind for a couple of felwood plants any given day over running instance after instance in hopes of getting another legendary that's likely crap.
My bosskill counter is already through the roof by comparison with any other previous addon and I'd consider myself casual in comparison to other players in the ranking region and what they are doing. You don't skate by doing nothing and casually killing the last three at this point unless you happen to be one of the very few guilds blessed with a roster of mostly exceptional players.

Don't dish out nonsense if you're gonna get upset.

Kinda entertaining considering you got triggered enough by a post to comment multiple times in a thread without contributing anything at all

[Deleted]

The only way anyone in a guild that can't get lower than 20% on krosus will ever kill that boss this tier, is by leaving that guild in the dirt.

What the fuck are you talking about?

[Zandalariprelate]

Not really?

Just because a boss has an insane dps requirement in the 2nd week of mythic (like Krosus?) doesn't mean it's tuned for 54. 1-2 weeks later, with the increase in ilvl, and people obtaining 2p\4pc, best trinkets, etc, Krosus became a joke... In a few weeks the same will happen to Star Augur (in regards of dps requirement, not mechanics, since Star Augur is vastly more complicated than krosus's).

So yea, just because the vast majority of guilds doesn't kill a boss in the first 2 weeks of mythic doesn't mean it's tuned for 54 traits. It will become easier with time... who knew?

You had just confirmed what i say, the only ones who had killed augur in the first month are people with 54 traits and a bit of overgear, just one question do you had any problem about reading or you just don't do raid beside of lfr?

[Deleted]

So basically WF Raid Setup = Setup You Need to Kill X Boss

kk

[IceMan1763]

You had just confirmed what i say, the only ones who had killed augur in the first month are people with 54 traits and a bit of overgear, just one question do you had any problem about reading or you just don't do raid beside of lfr?

Well... every comment agreeing with Ion is from an LFR raider who has zero clue what they're talking about. That has become abundantly clear from this thread.