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  1. #61
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    NK is the only real threat to USA and its allies. If their reported missile program continues to progress as fast as it does now, in a few years they could be easily send nukes to USAs west coast.
    North Korea has nothing to accomplish by doing that.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    For the exact same reasons Skroe said the Russian's wouldn't risk WW3 in Syria, the Chinese would not risk WW3 for N.Korea.
    It wouldn't China doing the risking, it would be the USA. Remember - Assad is just evil, the NK dude is batshit crazy just like Trump.

    Challenge Mode : Play WoW like my disability has me play:
    You will need two people, Brian MUST use the mouse for movement/looking and John MUST use the keyboard for casting, attacking, healing etc.
    Briand and John share the same goal, same intentions - but they can't talk to each other, however they can react to each other's in game activities.
    Now see how far Brian and John get in WoW.


  3. #63
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    Evacuate Seoul? Are you crazy? The City's population is over 10 million. Include the Metro area and you get 25 million and on top of that Seoul is the beating economic heart of the South.

    Any war between North and South will completely destroy the Southern Economy. Skroe is right: If war happens it's nuclear and not a limited way: A full blown nuclear assault by the United States on the North.
    Obviously there would be casualties. But the consequences would be bigger if the north were to gain enough power to invade the south. So, one way or another, i doubt theres a clean way to solve this one.

  4. #64
    If we take the preemptive strike against them, that opens the doors for a war with China. I don't think anyone wants that.

    Wait until the DPRK fires an ICBM at us, shoot it down. Then we can worry about taking out that fat fuck.

    Until that happens this is a nonissue. Fatboy over there is just doing some saber rattling, as usual.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmar View Post
    Yes! Of course it would.

    How do you sugest they would wage war with the US? Go through all of europe and NATO first?
    Neither NATO nor EU would get involved as the USA would have attacked Russia first and not the opposite. The article 5 is enabled only if an ally gets attacked. In Syria's case its USA who is the aggressor

  6. #66
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    Hahahahahaha, Oh jesus christ, you really are a 1950ies man ain't you.
    Artillery at those ranges is extremely foolish to disregard at any possible confrontation with NK even in modern times. They're within range to shell a major city with millions of people who've nothing to do with NK. Many thousands of innocents would die if NK went on the offensive from there.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    Evacuate Seoul? Are you crazy? The City's population is over 10 million. Include the Metro area and you get 25 million and on top of that Seoul is the beating economic heart of the South.

    Any war between North and South will completely destroy the Southern Economy. Skroe is right: If war happens it's nuclear and not a limited way: A full blown nuclear assault by the United States on the North.
    But let's be clear why it's nuclear: the US would have to "cleanse" a very wide swath of North Korean territory of artillery in a very short amount of time. It's not like it could do some kind of methodical survellience / drone strike / bomb as they pop up thing over a period of days or weeks. Time would be the enemy, and North Korea's success rate would be rather low. If even 1% of North Korea's artillery managed to fire, and it included chemical weapons in the shells, it would be the largest chemical warfare attack since probably the First World War.

    There is just no replacing the speed + efficiency in which a nuclear weapon would destroy several square miles of potential hardened North Korean artillery bunkers.

    This is why the US is putting THAAD near Seoul (it's not there yet). But what South Korea could use is what Israel has to defend against cheap rockets, artillery and mortars from Hamas / Hezbollah - Iron Dome. THAAD would defend against a ballistic missile, but what would destroy Seoul would be something much smaller.

  8. #68
    Herald of the Titans CostinR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    He said that because that's the kind of thing they say when they don't want to do it.

    What have I been saying for four years here? Every fighter, every dollar, every bomber spent in the Middle East is one not defending Europe from Russia or defending Asia-Pacific from China. The US military has been back-to-the-basics since 2012 and they've been deeply unenthusastic about the ISIS mission, which they view as a distraction.

    The Joint Chiefs didn't want to commit the carrier, the additional F-15Cs and F-22s, for years, that it would have taken. 150 aircraft in Turkey is cheap. Doubling that would get expensive.

    For the record, I'm in agreement with that. ISIS is little league and the people living there's problem and anything we have should be focused on Russia and China.

    But make no mistake (1) if the US wanted a no fly zone, it could have done it and (2) when Generals say things like that, it's code for "we really don't want to do it".
    Of course they didn't want to do it: They didn't want to intervene in Libya, they didn't want to intervene in Syria even in 2013 and I'm fairly certain they played an important role in ensuring that Obama's red line would not be enforced because the result of enforcement would have been worse.

    But that's the issue. Hillary was told of this by Chris Wallace in the third debate and asked what she'd do: She maintained her stance of wanting do it.

    Doing it would have been a disaster: Russia knows the US public sure as hell doesn't want another Middle Eastern intervention and they know the US military isn't to keen on it so they wouldn't have backed off so easily. I am fairly certain it would have sparked a major international crisis that could have escalated to a full blown war. That's because Putin has both the Russian military and public on his side. Hillary wouldn't have.
    "Life is one long series of problems to solve. The more you solve, the better a man you become.... Tribulations spawn in life and over and over again we must stand our ground and face them."

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    The North Korean infrastructure has seen rapid decline over the decades while South Korea has gone from strength to strength. If you think the American Army will be beaten by 1940ies era Artillery and the "10,000 artillery pieces" are not already mapped and Seoul not having protocols for an opening war, then I'm sorry, but the Red Scare is over.
    You are moving the goal posts, the threat isn't we would lose in an extended campaign, its that their is are many loaded guns pointed at our important ally, and we don't have a reliable way to prevent all the guns from going off outside of nuking the entire country

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by netherflame View Post
    We could threaten to stop/limit the importing of Chinese goods with the US imports from China nearing 500b last year, thats a pretty solid threat. I mean I wouldn't want to see our economy collapse.
    China can do serious harm to our economy if they wanted to, we don't want to play that game.

  11. #71
    Deleted
    The only military action you can take against NK is no-flag special forces missions, where you hope they buy your plausible deniability story or bribe them if it goes south.

    Anything more overt then that just has to many risks involved.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    The North Korean infrastructure has seen rapid decline over the decades while South Korea has gone from strength to strength. If you think the American Army will be beaten by 1940ies era Artillery and the "10,000 artillery pieces" are not already mapped and Seoul not having protocols for an opening war, then I'm sorry, but the Red Scare is over.
    im sorry but do you think a arty peice from the 40s cant fire on a fixed allready ranged position with effect? If you think this your fooling yourself, it doesnt take much if you allready have the range and position of your target, and they would just be going for max damage with w/e they can strap onto the end of a shell. And its not hard to conceal them as the barrel just needs to be exposed when fired. Just because they have aging artillery peices doesnt mean that cant fuck up that entire city.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    What's to stop them from fiiring when they see Seoul being evacuated? That's been the concern. Seoul has long been in effect, a hostage held at gunpoint.

    From what I understand, modern Seoul has an expansive underground subway / bunker system for it's populace to take shelter in.
    If they drop chemical agents with no notice then those bunkers will be a inch to far.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Linadra View Post
    I have some genuine Nigerian Prince treasure to sell you, if you've already bought that. Interested?
    That was a pretty lame attempt at being sarcastic. I feel sorry for you that you thought that was good enough to publish.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    North Korea has nothing to accomplish by doing that.
    What? Its called deterrence. They are trying through nukes to avoid a big confrontation.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    That was a pretty lame attempt at being sarcastic. I feel sorry for you that you thought that was good enough to publish.
    Need safe space? I thought it would only be polite to offer him some more of what he's already buying, and get rich in the process.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

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    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    What? Its called deterrence. They are trying through nukes to avoid a big confrontation.
    Deterrence is what rational actors do. There is zero indication North Korea is that.

  17. #77
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    What? Its called deterrence. They are trying through nukes to avoid a big confrontation.
    North Korea has no need of nukes to avoid being invaded. They're already being propped up by China because China don't want US forces right on their border. The only real question here is just how much China will tolerate from NKs posturing.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    Ah yes, South Korea is totally unprepared for North Korea trying to shell them!
    yeah, it's totally feasible to evacuate 10 million people from a densely populated area in under thirty minutes.

    dude. this isn't some episode of 24, or an action movie where some daring hero gets the codes and knocks the missiles out of the sky(also doesn't happen) these are artillery shells. You fire it, it's out and someone on the other end is about to die. takes about 10 seconds to fire the old style ww2 pieces twice. and they have 10,000 of unknown make and model. aimed at a major population center. loaded with chemical agents, high explosives, incendiary shells, whatever they can get their hands on that will cause the most damage.

    you miss even 1%(an appallingly high success rate on taking them out) and that's 100 shells, every 10 seconds. faster if they've gotten any new toys from china.

    The literal point is that you cannot possibly, with 100% certainty take all of them out within the time frame without collapsing the whole peninsula into the sea.

    I know you're so far away that you can't even begin to think of the consequences. so let's put it in terms you can understand. your quaint little town in "Jolly 'ol England" yeah? oops, local shoe shop's gone. public transit just got hit with nerve gas, little suzie is choking her last breaths out while papa desperately tries to claw his way over because he's missing a leg and bleeding out fast. Oh, there goes your favorite pub, and all your day-drinking chums. The lucky ones died from the explosive and/or shrapnel wounds. the rest are being crushed to death by the rubble. those apartments the old timers were all pissed about being put up because it ruins the picturesque quaintness? They took some incendiary shells. People are running, screaming, trying to save who or what they can. Jokes on them because almost every road now has holes the size of a small pond so good luck getting out by car or getting help in. And there's the reload. adjust a little to the left or right for greater collateral damage, fire volley two.

    I know you like to think the world is a place where the hero will win when the chips are down, but the reality is that there was never a hero in the first place.

  19. #79
    You know this is the only real military action that I would support the US with.

    North Korea is the only country in the world that has blatantly stated its intent to wage war on the west even going so far as to damage its people mentally, potentially destroying an entire generation of secular thinkers.

    Yeah I would support military action against North Korea. I'm surprised and angered that nothing has been done about it yet.


    It's like America is terrified to pit its army against actual modern tech, instead of penniless sand people.

  20. #80
    The Unstoppable Force May90's Avatar
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    A much better approach than a full scale war is the one which South Korea planned to implement back in 70-s-to-90-s, when they were training suicide squads for infiltrating the North Korean military and assassinating the leader and the key governmental officials at the convenient moment. Do that and then, using the chaos, start an aggressive information war: radio broadcasts, jamming of the governmental information sources, dropping informational papers and books from the sky... Turn the people themselves against the government.

    That's really the only way of permanently dealing with such regimes without rivers of blood: win an information war and make the oppressed people see the reality of their situation. And without a functioning government for a period able to resist that war, you can succeed. And then you will reap the benefits of such victory, as people, unlike what happened in Iraq or Afghanistan, will actually understand why they were in that mess to begin with and rebuild their society in a better, modern way.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Candy View Post
    I can't explain it because I'm an idiot, and I have to live with that post for the rest of my life. Better to just smile and back away slowly. Ignore it so that it can go away.
    Thanks for the avatar goes to Carbot Animations and Sy.

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