Addons & Friendly Nameplates in Patch 7.2

[Charge me Doctor]

yes. exactly. lua prevents this.

but you guys say that a lua restriction or other code restriction for this particular problem would be impossible to code in for this particular problem, no matter how much work.

Because it's not a "restriction", LUA literally cannot modify texture files of the game that are used to be stretched on the game objects. LUA is restricted to your UI, game objects are part of the game world, not part of your UI. It's like trying to use your remote to FF world around you

- - - Updated - - -

why not. and why can't a similar technique not be applied to this problem with some coding on blizz part.

Because they'll have to remake the game from a scratch. They made LUA to work only with users UI, it can't interfere in game objects, so, to make it work, they have to scrap current model, make up a new one, split UI into two parts, one being "free to modify via LUA", other - just like game world - rendered in other way without user access.
- - - Updated - - -

I don't think you can come up with even 1 example of what nasty shit could be done.
But yeah, they chose the lazy approach of curing a headache via decapitation.

Remember when people used to draw guides in jpg format? Yeah, the same but in a game world, using players as reference point to draw objects. You just spread everyone out, use an addon to draw circles, pull the boss - boom, circles are there are not going to move anywhere since you are not allowed to retexture in combat

[Deleted]

Because it's not a "restriction", LUA literally cannot modify texture files of the game that are used to be stretched on the game objects. LUA is restricted to your UI, game objects are part of the game world, not part of your UI. It's like trying to use your remote to FF world around yo

addons used to be able to change the texture and size of say herbs or ore nodes.

they'll have to remake the game from a scratch

likely just part of it. which happens more often then you'd think.

which brings be back to my original point: it's perfectly possible just to much work.

[ls-]

yes. exactly. lua prevents this.

but you guys say that a lua restriction or other code restriction for this particular problem would be impossible to code in for this particular problem, no matter how much work.

No, that's not it.

You simply don't understand fundamentals of either programming or game development from programmers perspective. All your guesses/assumptions are simply wrong.

[Charge me Doctor]

addons used to be able to change the texture and size of say herbs or ore nodes.

Which and when? Are you sure that game files weren't modified? Over my whole WoW life i haven't heard about something like that outside private servers. Which is out of conversation, because you can do literally anything there.

[Deleted]

No, that's not it.

You simply don't understand fundamentals of either programming or game development from programmers perspective. All your guesses/assumptions are simply wrong.

yeah i've said i don't code pages back.

and i keep guessing because you keep shooting down the guesses instead of answering the original question:

is a more elegant solution to this problem possible? is it possible blizzard took the quick and easy fix instead of the proper fix for this problem?

- - - Updated - - -

Which and when? Are you sure that game files weren't modified? Over my whole WoW life i haven't heard about something like that outside private servers. Which is out of conversation, because you can do literally anything there.

early vanilla, can't recall the name and it might have been something other then a addon. hard to google for now after so many years. if memory serves you could make the node textures huge, and as long as you could click anywhere in the texture you could harvest it.

[ls-]

yeah i've said i don't code pages back.

and i keep guessing because you keep shooting down the guesses instead of answering the original question:

is a more elegant solution to this problem possible? is it possible blizzard took the quick and easy fix instead of the proper fix for this problem?

It's a proper fix for this problem, sadly, you can't have unrestricted customisation that doesn't cause any issues for game developers. Any modification of nameplate's texture, e.g. it's size, visibility, colour, etc, can be used for players' advantage, and there's a difference between QoL improvement and AddOn abuse

[Charge me Doctor]

early vanilla, can't recall the name and it might have been something other then a addon. hard to google for now after so many years. if memory serves you could make the node textures huge, and as long as you could click anywhere in the texture you could harvest it.

I'm 99% positive that you weren't able to change game object size via LUA UI modifications at any point of this game existing

[ComputerNerd]

... my eyes are going to bleed out of my head.

Guess ill just stop leveling my Resto druid.

- - - Updated - - -



More like..

If blizzard doesn't want the API to do that, they can disable it. That simple.

What they wanted the API to not do isn't always known in advance.
Sometimes players prompt a change.
It is unfortunate though, but nobody here is to blame but players.

Is there potentially a better fix for it ?
Maybe, but this is the solution blizzard have at present.
A constructive discussion with blizzard, and it remaining that way is the best way to look for alternative solutions.
But I suspect any discussion would too quickly devolve into blizzard blaming.

[Deleted]

It's a proper fix for this problem, sadly, you can't have unrestricted customisation that doesn't cause any issues for game developers. Any modification of nameplate's texture, e.g. it's size, visibility, colour, etc, can be used for players' advantage, and there's a difference between QoL improvement and AddOn abuse

yeah and you can totally only have either unrestricted customization or no customization at all. any grey areas in between are just not possible right?

[ls-]

I'm 99% positive that you weren't able to change game object size via LUA UI modifications at any point of this game existing

It's easy to mess w/ files directly though

Many people think that it's done via addons because such things were distributed as addon packs/suites. Those're kinda similar to present day addon compilations that include WTF, Fonts, and other folders.

[DDM]

I can fully understand, WHY they are doing this, but not HOW.
Yes, it gives a (big) advantage in some encounters and that is ... not so good.
I always disliked the beam radar for M Archi of Method. The way Paragon (i think they have been the first?) handled the beams, was WAY more elegant. But still props to the guy who came up with the beam addon (still a great work).

BUT
i really like the way how the friendly nameplates are displayed with KUI. I never turned fnp on, because they are way to big (standard). With KUI i have them always on, just to see, who is standing next to me/who is dropping some debuff where he shouldn't do it ... i wouldn't need the buffs/debuffs on the fnp, but the "plates" displayed just as names is brilliant.
I don't see any advantage in just displaying the names, but it helps to identify some slackers in the raid group.

I hope, Blizzard comes up with a solution to implement this somehow.

[stevenho]

You just spread everyone out, use an addon to draw circles, pull the boss - boom, circles are there are not going to move anywhere since you are not allowed to retexture in combat

...and? What exactly are those fixed size circles for the entire boss fight going to accomplish? You can do exactly the same thing currently in game, but nobody is doing it because it makes no sense. Unless it changes dynamically like it does in the Exorsus video.

[ls-]

yeah and you can totally only have either unrestricted customization or no customization at all. any grey areas in between are just not possible right?

That's exactly what's happening now, enemy nameplates are still customisable, friendly nameplates can be customised in non-instanced environment by anyone and at anytime, but customisation is disabled in instanced environment. There's no way to prevent nameplates' abuse and keep customisation, because in this case abuse happens via customisation.

To put it bluntly, in this particular case customisation itself IS abuse.

[stevenho]

There's no way to prevent nameplates' abuse and keep customisation, because in this case abuse happens via customisation.

You continue talking like the current game and apis are set in stone and therefore can never change.
What can and cannot be done is a matter of how blizzard chooses to code it.

[Lysiander]

yeah i've said i don't code pages back.

and i keep guessing because you keep shooting down the guesses instead of answering the original question:

is a more elegant solution to this problem possible? is it possible blizzard took the quick and easy fix instead of the proper fix for this problem?

The reason he keeps shooting down your guesses is because you're original question rests on a faulty assumption: that Blizzard's solution is not elegant. It is.

You are looking at nameplates as a self-contained unit that takes no input from anything else. That's not how it works. As long as I can add a visual object to a nameplate (statusbar, texture, etc.) I can reproduce the behavior that caused the change.

Disable buffs/debuffs on nameplates? I'll just read the debuff from the player (Player A) that got it, post that information into a custom, hidden chat channel and have Player B's addon read that channel.

The real problem is a combination of three things:
1. We can get Information about buffs/debuffs.
2. We can create as many frames as we want and position them anywhere on the screen.
3. Nameplates either directly or indirectly provide a player's position. (By either giving us the position on screen or offering a place to hang things on)

Changing one breaks roughly any combat addon out there.
Changing two breaks every addon out there.
Changing three is the solution Blizzard went for because it's the least invasive.

To give a simple analogy, Blizzard just forbade us from bringing our phones to the restroom. Someone used it to take offensive pictures. They have some sort of magical tech that prevents them working in there. We are free to use them in the rest of the office. Obviously there are alternative solutions such as asking people not to do it, ban phones outright, offer punishments etc but all of these solutions have the same problem, they rest on people actually doing what you asked them. Using their magic to disable all phones in the restroom is the only way to be sure while still allowing you to use your phone at all.

early vanilla, can't recall the name and it might have been something other then a addon. hard to google for now after so many years. if memory serves you could make the node textures huge, and as long as you could click anywhere in the texture you could harvest it.

1. Early vanilla the UI restrictions were much less severe. Back then, we could create addons that basically played the game for you. As in "if the enemy has less then 20%, use execute, otherwise, use x". Think ovale spell priority, only instead of telling you which button to press, you literally just pressed one button and the addon changed that button to whatever the script told it to be at the time.

2. What you describe was never possible within the default UI. There were hacks around that changed the actual model file by modifying/ replacing the ingame models that were stored within the client. A prominent example of this was a guild that replaced the wall in AQ40 with nothing and then walked straight to C'Tun without clearing the raid. That's not using addons. That's hacking the game and is a bannable offense. The Warden software was introduced specifically to prevent this sort of thing.

[stevenho]

To give a simple analogy, Blizzard just forbade us from bringing our phones to the restroom. Someone used it to take offensive pictures. They have some sort of magical tech that prevents them working in there. We are free to use them in the rest of the office. Obviously there are alternative solutions such as asking people not to do it, ban phones outright, offer punishments etc but all of these solutions have the same problem, they rest on people actually doing what you asked them. Using their magic to disable all phones in the restroom is the only way to be sure while still allowing you to use your phone at all.

Actually that's not what they did. Their restroom magic aura replaces our smartphones with Nokia 3310s without cameras, so noone can take pictures. While the elegant solution would be to have the aura disable cameras in our smartphones so we can still browse the web while pooping.

I'm gonna miss KNP name-only mode so much...

[Norome]

There's no way to prevent nameplates' abuse and keep customisation, because in this case abuse happens via customisation.

/thread

Also, I assume that limiting access to api features that allowed mentioned effect while still keeping the level of allowed customization, would require a possibly significant redesign of some parts of either the api and/or the frame hierarchy. And that would potentially break hundreds of addons whose intended effect is not even related to customizing friendly nameplates. You can't do that mid-expansion. They disabled a tiny part that does not break any addon. That's the correct way to go in this case, whether you like it or not.

[ls-]

To give a simple analogy, Blizzard just forbade us from bringing our phones to the restroom. Someone used it to take offensive pictures. They have some sort of magical tech that prevents them working in there. We are free to use them in the rest of the office. Obviously there are alternative solutions such as asking people not to do it, ban phones outright, offer punishments etc but all of these solutions have the same problem, they rest on people actually doing what you asked them. Using their magic to disable all phones in the restroom is the only way to be sure while still allowing you to use your phone at all.

You should've used a bit different analogy, smartphones are complex, they consist of multiple replaceable parts that can often be disabled individually, and people will use this argument against you

[Evangeliste]

I don't know why people are up in arms. They did this for Icecrown Citadel when addons were displaying coloured zones on the ground to avoid for Professor Putricide. It was an exploit then as much as this is now, and they are fixing it so that people are not having it the same visual indications on friendly nameplates. If they wanted to be real assholes they would have quite easily broken things like Deadly Boss Mods/Big Wigs and so to really cry over friendly nameplates exploiting the game is a very small thing compared to what other shit Blizzard could pull to make players' experience in effect, harder.

I do agree that they should update the UI and overall HUD, it is very archaic and quite frankly the coding on it must be still back in the World vanilla period unless they have edited it but judging from how UI overall addons like ElvUI make things like FPS better and sometimes MS (that does depend on your layout and other things), it suggests to me it hasn't had so much love as it could have.

[Evilmoo]

So, exorsus bent rules on Gul'dan, now everyone must suffer because of that?
Ban russians, leave normal folk alone.