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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    Judging by your posting history, you're for Trump. Add how you base your support for a politician on another posters posting history?? gg ignorance.
    I support our President, this doesn't mean I agree with everything he does. I know you're young and biased and can't understand that you can agree,disagree and support someone even if you don't personally like them but hopefully one day you mature.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Safol View Post
    It's going to be very interesting to see her win the french elections.

    I'm curious though why is the word "populist" being used as if populism is somehow inherently negative. (?)
    Populist and demagogue was used negatively since Alcibiade and Catilina.

  3. #63
    Well, I hope she wins. Not that I think she'd make a good president but pissing the OP and those who use the term "populist" pejoratively off is just too good to pass on.

  4. #64
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbortedGodFetus View Post
    NPR had Le Pen slated to win when I was listening this morning. PR stunt was enough to make her a known name in world obsessed with Trump.
    Trump has a strong dislike in Europa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stacyrect View Post
    For the sake of France, I hope Le Pen does get elected
    Here come the Americans telling Europeans whats best for their country.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Authary View Post
    Well, I hope she wins. Not that I think she'd make a good president but pissing the OP and those who use the term "populist" pejoratively off is just too good to pass on.
    ''Populist'' and ''demagogue'' does not mean ''being for the people''. It means using the lowest common denominator. People pretending ''to be on the side the little guy'' to lead them to disasters is quite a classic.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurata View Post
    Well duh

    And trust me if there wasn't a second round she wouldn't be doing so well in polls. She managed to get idiots think she is the protest vote but few people are dumb enough to want her president.
    people with another political opinion are sooo dumb

  7. #67
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurata View Post
    Hi guys

    In the past few days I may have seen a thread or two about how Marine Le Pen is actually not far right, how moderate she is, or how bold she was for not wearing a headscarf in lebanon.

    Of course it is usually the same type of posters with their well known agenda that tend to open these threads. They will not be convinced, but i think we should still discuss it for the silent majority to have proper information from people that actually live in France.

    So...

    1- Yes Marine Le Pen is a far right populist Her program basically revolves around islam and vengeance porn toward minorities and dual-citizenship. It provides very little numbers and explanations, and Le Pen has been constantly shifting stances and retropedaling on several points (ie. death penalty, minimum wage, retirement age) to adjust with public opinion.

    2- No she isn't "brave" for refusing to wear a headscarf in lebanon. Let's be clear, I would have given her credit if it was legit, but this was actually a staged PR stunt since she was warned in advance and still decided to go through with the meeting and act surprised. It is also very hypocritical since she has always been very vocal about how foreigners have to adapt to the traditions of the country they are in.

    3- No she won't be president. This is not the US election. There are at least 5 serious candidates competing and France's political spectrum is far more nuanced. It isn't as binary as Trump vs Clinton.
    If Frenchmen can agree on a single thing, it's that we should never let Front National and the Le Pen family be in charge of anything. During the 2002 election, Jean-marie Le Pen's opponent won the election with 82% of voices in the second round because the right and left united to form the Front Républicain and exorcise him. The presence of Le Pen in second round is still considered as a source of shame for a lot of Frenchmen.


    Obviously I can't do an exhaustive list of all the propaganda tactics and misconducts of that women but I'll adress any question / dubious claim that comes up.
    I agree with your first 2 points, but I'm not certain about the 3rd. The arguments for Le Pen not being an extremist are as laughable as people trying to normalize Trump (I still don't see many people that have figured out that VOICE - basically part of Section 10 of the Muslim ban executive order - is straight out of the Nazi playbook with things like The Criminal Jew).

    Although the French media has been far more responsible than the US media was (and honestly still is since the media thinks Trump's speech on Tuesday was a change...much of our media really is stupid), it is an uncomfortably close race...and you simply can't be certain of a Comey-esque last minute "reveal" that tilts the race 1% or 2%, enough to change the outcome.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    Trump has a strong dislike in Europa.

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    Here come the Americans telling Europeans whats best for their country.
    The Americans praising the FN are completely oblivious to the raw hostility of the Le Pen clan for the United States

    When Le Pen rants about mondialisation and nationalization, she means American corporations

  9. #69
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Safol View Post
    It's going to be very interesting to see her win the french elections.

    I'm curious though why is the word "populist" being used as if populism is somehow inherently negative. (?)

    She is over 26% behind Macron in the 2nd round lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    I support our President, this doesn't mean I agree with everything he does. I know you're young and biased and can't understand that you can agree,disagree and support someone even if you don't personally like them but hopefully one day you mature.

    That is not how politics work though, its not 'mature' to support a politician because he got elected by a majority.. let alone a minority.
    Are you new to the concept of a 'opposition'?

  10. #70
    France, you know, had the joy of experimenting the far right in power...

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by sarahtasher View Post
    ''Populist'' and ''demagogue'' does not mean ''being for the people''. It means using the lowest common denominator. People pretending ''to be on the side the little guy'' to lead them to disasters is quite a classic.
    Oh I know. It's just that it's usually being used by people supporting candidates/parties doing the exact same thing.

    Also, ridiculing different opinions/points of view : "You're supporting X ? He's a populist, you're dumb and your opinion is dumb, you dumb dumb !"

    I dislike those people.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    She is over 26% behind Macron in the 2nd round lol

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    That is not how politics work though, its not 'mature' to support a politician because he got elected by a majority.. let alone a minority.
    Are you new to the concept of a 'opposition'?
    Wrong, do you want to see your country fail? You don't 100% agree or disagree with anyone you elect unless you're a tool.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Authary View Post
    Oh I know. It's just that it's usually being used by people supporting candidates/parties doing the exact same thing.

    Also, ridiculing different opinions/points of view : "You're supporting X ? He's a populist, you're dumb and your opinion is dumb, you dumb dumb !"

    I dislike those people.
    Just think of it as shorthand, tagging a candidate as a populist is implying that they have nothing interesting to say and are just pandering to baser emotions for votes. And yeah, everyone hates being called dumb and hates the people who are calling them dumb, but sometimes you just gotta call it like it is. Besides, populists do the same thing anyway, calling everyone they dislike elitists and snobs, which once again may in fact be true but doesn't diminish the validity of what they're saying.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbound View Post
    I agree with your first 2 points, but I'm not certain about the 3rd. The arguments for Le Pen not being an extremist are as laughable as people trying to normalize Trump (I still don't see many people that have figured out that VOICE - basically part of Section 10 of the Muslim ban executive order - is straight out of the Nazi playbook with things like The Criminal Jew).

    Although the French media has been far more responsible than the US media was (and honestly still is since the media thinks Trump's speech on Tuesday was a change...much of our media really is stupid), it is an uncomfortably close race...and you simply can't be certain of a Comey-esque last minute "reveal" that tilts the race 1% or 2%, enough to change the outcome.
    No poll of the second round have her even close to winning against any candidate. I think the smallest gap was with Hollande as a hypothetical with a ~10% win for Hollannde. A candidate technically not in the running.
    The french election is odd too look at from the outside because of the two round structure.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Wrong, do you want to see your country fail? You don't 100% agree or disagree with anyone you elect unless you're a tool.
    I never said you should disagree 100%.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Macaquerie View Post
    Just think of it as shorthand, tagging a candidate as a populist is implying that they have nothing interesting to say and are just pandering to baser emotions for votes. And yeah, everyone hates being called dumb and hates the people who are calling them dumb, but sometimes you just gotta call it like it is. Besides, populists do the same thing anyway, calling everyone they dislike elitists and snobs, which once again may in fact be true but doesn't diminish the validity of what they're saying.
    Call me a cynic but I'll assert that every candidate is pandering to baser emotions for votes. More or less. Usually, those using this kind of rhetoric support one of the extreme candidates (like OP is, according to his posting history). Less-non-smart people attack ideas, not other people.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    I support our President, this doesn't mean I agree with everything he does. I know you're young and biased and can't understand that you can agree,disagree and support someone even if you don't personally like them but hopefully one day you mature.
    Bold proves my point, it's ironic how you talk about maturity, yet resort to ad hominem. I guess that means you stand by your point of supporting Le Pen "who's party said that the holocaust was a detail in history" because of another posters posting history, yes you're very mature.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Authary View Post
    Call me a cynic but I'll assert that every candidate is pandering to baser emotions for votes. More or less. Usually, those using this kind of rhetoric support one of the extreme candidates (like OP is, according to his posting history). Less-non-smart people attack ideas, not other people.
    That's false equivalence though. For one thing, not all candidates are good at rousing the masses, so some try to appeal to voters based on their experience, qualifications, or policy proposals. For example, Clinton couldn't be a populist even if she wanted to, she simply isn't good with that rhetorical style. For another, attacking the ideas of populists isn't really effective because, once again, populism isn't really based on ideas and is mostly just about feels and slogans. I mean, you could argue that Le Pen's entire ideology is a pretty weak as far as nationalism goes because it's essentially a retread of a period when France was under foreign occupation and didn't have any kind of control of its own affairs, but she'd probably respond with some incoherent babble about making France great again or whatever, so you never get anywhere.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by unbound View Post
    I agree with your first 2 points, but I'm not certain about the 3rd. The arguments for Le Pen not being an extremist are as laughable as people trying to normalize Trump (I still don't see many people that have figured out that VOICE - basically part of Section 10 of the Muslim ban executive order - is straight out of the Nazi playbook with things like The Criminal Jew).

    Although the French media has been far more responsible than the US media was (and honestly still is since the media thinks Trump's speech on Tuesday was a change...much of our media really is stupid), it is an uncomfortably close race...and you simply can't be certain of a Comey-esque last minute "reveal" that tilts the race 1% or 2%, enough to change the outcome.
    Le Pen's real support is shown in the 2nd round, it'll take alot for the people voting for more moderate candidates, to shift to an extreme candidate as Le Pen in the 2nd round. She could be way ahead in polls for the 1st round, and still loose the 2nd round by 10%, which is a beating.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    Bold proves my point, it's ironic how you talk about maturity, yet resort to ad hominem. I guess that means you stand by your point of supporting Le Pen "who's party said that the holocaust was a detail in history" because of another posters posting history, yes you're very mature.
    You have no point, I can link plenty of democrat senators who support Trump, are they Trumpsters? Use some common sense for once you partisan hack.

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