Is Quel'thalas ever going to get another monarch?

[Combatbutler]

That would put their population pre-War at about a million people - that seems like it would a pretty high number for a smallish caste of Night Elven noble families fleeing after the War of the Ancients. Fantastical or not, Quel'Thalas was still a medieval kingdom - a million people don't seem like they would fit given the relatively undeveloped state of Quel'Thalas. Of course without any kind of true population numbers it's all a matter of speculation anyways.

Considering the numbers that do get thrown around, especially in the Illidan novel the population had to be relatively high.

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Hey Liadrin is supposedly time locked outside Nighthold until Anomaly dies yet I still kept sending her to bring me coffee.

Horde and Alliance rescue Tyrande and Liadrin respectively, these two should be outside the timelock.

[Rhlor]

I'd rather we had the Convocation of Silvermoon formally reestablished. With Lor'themar, Halduron, Rommath, Liadrin in it (and maybe 1-2 more people)

Convocation of Silvermoon was composed of the nobles who are mostly dead. Quel'thalas is ruled by the rangers and magisters

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Well he was seriously considering joining the Alliance before Jaina derped out.

So if a German decided to join the allies to defeat hitler was something bad?Hitler betrays Germany and garrosh betrays the horde

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Or Aleria could return to Silvermoon and be the catalyst that finally reunites the high elves and the bloodelves in Quel'thalas. Lor'themar steps down as regent lord and takes a position on the council along side of Brightwing, Liadrin, and Rommath. Aleria is named queen.

Alleria was a ranger captain and worked under the command of lorthemar, she called Lord Theron

[Friendlyimmolation]

To be honesth the problem seems to be Vereesa and Rommath. Lor'themar is mostly embarassed by it but he does what is best for his people, the high elves who actually faced adversity that would justify them being obstinate are pretty much all dead. I still think that if there were no gameplay reasons and considering Theron's fairly low opinion of the former Ranger General,

There is no way Theron has any good opinions of Vereesa after the purge of Dalaran. That scenario ended with Lorthemar yelling that "they are Horde and will never back down"

I am just not sure how much attachment has formed between the blood elves and the rest of the Horde

Bigger than they ever had with the Alliance, The majority of the elves wanted nothing to do with humans in the first place.

There would definitely be an issue with the high elves who followed Jaina in the Kalimdor exodus (since the assistance of the Alliance was crucial to them and they would have split loyalties)

most of them are dead at this point, the High elves lost the moment they started fighting the blood elves because there are so few left of them.

but they are likely all dead. Similarly there is the small number of high elves who live in Outland and those are likely Alliance first and high elves second.

Auric their leader, wants to go back to silvermoon.

[DeicideUH]

Vereesa and Lor'themar were at odds long before the purge of Dalaran. Both Lor'themar's reaction towards her name in "Under the Shadow of the Sun" story and Vereesa's comments about him in patch 4.1 (in front of Zul'Aman) indicates they hate (or at least heavily dislike) each other. Only Halduron and Vereesa get along well.

I think the High elves in the Alliance, Vereesa including hold such grudges because many of them were banished from Quel'thalas when they questioned Lor'themar's authority during the early days of the Blood Elves. This event was never touched very well by Blizzard, with it being mostly referenced in "Under the Shadow of the Sun" (and briefly touched on those Pandaria tales that followed Lili and Chen, I forgot their title). From what I can gather about it, while many high elves were loyal to Kael'thas, they considered Lor'themar a pretender and usurper and spoke against him and the elves' new direction. Lor'themar wouldn't allow such dissent to grow within Quel'thalas, so he ordered the exile of those rebels.

I don't see these high elves willing to return. I'd actually like to see them settle somewhere else.

Aside from the exiled ones, most high elves in the Alliance are either those from Dalaran, those stranded in Outland and the few that lived away from Quel'thalas, amidst humans and dwarves. I think most of the ones that are willing to return to Quel'thalas have already done so.

[Zulkhan]

I still think that if there were no gameplay reasons and considering Theron's fairly low opinion of the former Ranger General, that the Blood Elves could still rejoin the Alliance

Why they should? Lor'themar never desired that before Garrosh forced his hand. The Purge of Dalaran did nothing but further feed his biases. Garrosh going full tyrant was that kind of once-in-a-lifetime-chance that Jaina irrimediably ruined.

[Rhlor]

Vereesa and Lor'themar were at odds long before the purge of Dalaran. Both Lor'themar's reaction towards her name in "Under the Shadow of the Sun" story and Vereesa's comments about him in patch 4.1 (in front of Zul'Aman) indicates they hate (or at least heavily dislike) each other. Only Halduron and Vereesa get along well.

I think the High elves in the Alliance, Vereesa including hold such grudges because many of them were banished from Quel'thalas when they questioned Lor'themar's authority during the early days of the Blood Elves. This event was never touched very well by Blizzard, with it being mostly referenced in "Under the Shadow of the Sun" (and briefly touched on those Pandaria tales that followed Lili and Chen, I forgot their title). From what I can gather about it, while many high elves were loyal to Kael'thas, they considered Lor'themar a pretender and usurper and spoke against him and the elves' new direction. Lor'themar wouldn't allow such dissent to grow within Quel'thalas, so he ordered the exile of those rebels.

I don't see these high elves willing to return. I'd actually like to see them settle somewhere else.

Aside from the exiled ones, most high elves in the Alliance are either those from Dalaran, those stranded in Outland and the few that lived away from Quel'thalas, amidst humans and dwarves. I think most of the ones that are willing to return to Quel'thalas have already done so.

auric sunchaser <High Elf Representative> say hello



Captain Auric Sunchaser says: Quel'Delar is not held in high esteem by the sin'dorei alone. It holds a place in the heart of all children of Silvermoon.
Captain Auric Sunchaser says: This blade has been returned to us for a reason, my lords. Now is the time to rally behind the bearer of Quel'Delar and avenge the destruction of Silvermoon and the Sunwell.

high elves pelgrims

[Friendlyimmolation]

In his short story it seems clear that his relation with the Horde is not even convenient. Sylvanas willfully sends the injured forces of the blood elves to seek her revenge against Arthas when Lor'themar clearly believes they are under in no condition to mobilize them by threatening to abandon them in the Ghostlands. With the way Rommath and Theron reacted in that short story, if Varian could have promised him equal troops in the Ghostlands and some extra ships to protect Silvermoon he'd have left back in Wrath. Garrosh was not the first one to use the blood elves as nothing but pawns.

This was years before Mop though, Blood elves and Horde did nothing but get closer right up until Garrosh, Kirin'tor only wanted them because they realized they couldnt take on Malygos alone, all the blood elves that hated Dalaran for what they did to Kael had their biases confirmed with Jaina. But if the Alliance didnt send in spies and saboteurs into the ghost lands and eversong, and actually helped with offered equal forces, I could see them leaving for the Alliance at that point. But the Alliance sank that ship first with Garithos, then with what they did in Quel'thalas, then followed by Dalaran.

[Friendlyimmolation]

The Alliance threw their support behind Garithos, he was their defacto leader in Lordaeron.

Dalaran has been historically neutral in Warcraft; it had never intervened against the Horde in favor of the Alliance up until after the Horde killed their leader in Theramore (and issued no apology or offered no reparations to the third party). Again, the Horde command structure has probably gotten a lot more blood elves killed in their wars than the current Alliance ever did.

so neutral that they listend to Garithos and had the blood elves slated for execution. And so neutral that they aided the Alliance in Theramore, a Alliance city.

And I want to reiterate a previous comment. Horde military forces are largely racial segregated units. We do not see mixed units; the Forsaken keep to their own, the orcs sometimes mix with tauren and trolls and the blood elves also have their separate units. There are some token mixed forces in Northrend (Grizzly Hills) but the blood elves are entirely in subordinate roles in such forces. Considering that trade is also limited with the blood elves (the Forsaken do not seem to engage in much trade and Quel'thalas does not seem to have the ability to project economically across the ocean, nor do the Horde races have anything the elves would want to buy) I don't think the Blood Elves are actually engaged with the rest of the Horde in a meaningful interpersonal level that would foster compatriotship. Compare that to the Alliance that has integrated all races (even Night Elves and Draenei) in all levels of their command structure immediately even back in Vanilla and where large populations of different races have often moved across locations (such as the humans who moved to the Exodar seeking Velen). It's just further proof that Thrall for all his good intentions is a garbage leader.

The fact that the Alliance gets so along with each other does not change the fact that the Blood elves see them as garbage, or that the Alliance treated them like garbage.

The only help the blood elves ever received from the Horde was from the Forsaken against Deathholme in the Ghostlands. It became clear very fast though that that help was only there to secure that Sylvanas could use her former people in her obsession for revenge against Arthas (in a time when the Blood Elves were far better off standing behind to lick their wounds from Kael'thas killing his own people to grab M'uru, not to mention the losses in Quel'danas to secure the Sunwell). For that help they have been dragged in every Horde engagement while rarely holding any command. The only reason they did not consider seceding earlier is not that there was no Garrosh earlier; Sylvanas did the same (and in the eyes of Theron probably worse, Rommath calls her a monster after all). It's that Alliance had not extended a hand earlier than MoP because it had far more significant internal problems to deal w

So we have the Horde helping vs, the Alliance doing nothing. The Alliance showed their hand to the blood elves earlier, and it was hostile.

You seem to be confused, the average high elf/blood elf wanted nothing to do with the Alliance in the first place. The Alliance offered nothing the Blood elves thought was good, and when Lorthemar thought about joining the Alliance, it wasnt because he forgave them, or had a surge of Alliance patriotism or whatever, its because at the moment he hated Garrosh more than he hated humans.

[DeicideUH]

auric sunchaser <High Elf Representative> say hello

high elves pelgrims

And what's your point? What I did say was: "I think most of the ones that are willing to return to Quel'thalas have already done so."
The fact that there are high elf pilgrims does not negate what I said. Some of them may join the Blood Elves, and that will still not negate what I said, since I opened the possibility that a few may still switch sides. I don't understand what's your point.

About Auric, we don't even know where he resides after leaving Outland. His last appearance was back in that patch; he could very well be either an Alliance representative engaging in diplomatic negotiations with Silvermoon or even joined the Horde by now.

[Zulkhan]

In his short story it seems clear that his relation with the Horde is not even convenient. Sylvanas willfully sends the injured forces of the blood elves to seek her revenge against Arthas when Lor'themar clearly believes they are under in no condition to mobilize them by threatening to abandon them in the Ghostlands. With the way Rommath and Theron reacted in that short story, if Varian could have promised him equal troops in the Ghostlands and some extra ships to protect Silvermoon he'd have left back in Wrath. Garrosh was not the first one to use the blood elves as nothing but pawns.

And yet Lor'themar himself in Tides of War says to Garrosh himself that he held a debt to the Horde for assisting his people when no other did. Sylvanas arm-fisting Lor'themar was a personal matter of theirs, it wasn't official Horde politics and Sylvanas didn't really speak for the Horde either, she merely brought the news from Orgrimmar but the arm-twisting was her own decision. If Lor'themar gave a damn is because he had still need of Forsaken troops around his lands, not because she carried any actual "authority" around.

Fact is, Lor'themar pointed out to Garrosh that he felt loyalty to the faction rather than its leader (which is one of the snarky expressions that made Lor'themar fall from Garrosh's good graces, trying his hardest to sell around the idea that Garrosh himself was the Horde) and never truly felt at odds with the faction until Garrosh brought his bigotry, tyrannical politics and reckless military decisions to the next level. He never cared to take the Alliance in consideration before that moment. And such golden chance was lost the moment Jaina ruined it and Vol'jin capitalized on it by "pulling" Lor'themar back in the Horde.

[Aucald]

In his short story it seems clear that his relation with the Horde is not even convenient. Sylvanas willfully sends the injured forces of the blood elves to seek her revenge against Arthas when Lor'themar clearly believes they are under in no condition to mobilize them by threatening to abandon them in the Ghostlands. With the way Rommath and Theron reacted in that short story, if Varian could have promised him equal troops in the Ghostlands and some extra ships to protect Silvermoon he'd have left back in Wrath. Garrosh was not the first one to use the blood elves as nothing but pawns.

There's also the issue that the Alliance were also spying on the Blood Elves while they were battling with the Scourge forces in the Ghostlands - this would put a spanner in the works of any reconciliation that might've been planned at the time.

[Zuben]

Change Lor'themar's title to something that refers to a permanent position. Maybe not king, but hierarch or autarch or whatever.

I like Lor'themar fine, but having a sorcerer ruler in charge would give more legitimacy to blood elves as a magic-oriented race.

[Rhlor]

And what's your point? What I did say was: "I think most of the ones that are willing to return to Quel'thalas have already done so."
The fact that there are high elf pilgrims does not negate what I said. Some of them may join the Blood Elves, and that will still not negate what I said, since I opened the possibility that a few may still switch sides. I don't understand what's your point.

About Auric, we don't even know where he resides after leaving Outland. His last appearance was back in that patch; he could very well be either an Alliance representative engaging in diplomatic negotiations with Silvermoon or even joined the Horde by now.

He lives in quel'danas because he is the representative of the high elves in the sunwell, auric think all are children of silvermoon and have to fight together

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Change Lor'themar's title to something that refers to a permanent position. Maybe not king, but hierarch or autarch or whatever.

I like Lor'themar fine, but having a sorcerer ruler in charge would give more legitimacy to blood elves as a magic-oriented race.

Supreme director

[DeicideUH]

He lives in quel'danas because he is the representative of the high elves in the sunwell, auric think all are children of silvermoon and have to fight together

I know all that. But that was the status in WotLK.

Since then we had the Amani threat, the Pandaria campaign and now Legion. We do not know if his current status remains the same, what he thinks of the Silver Covernant, what was his view on the whole Divine Bell/Purge of Dalaran event, and so on. I'd love to have an update on him.

Of course, since there's no update, we can assume everything remains the same, but that's assumption. He could be in a different position next time we see him (if we ever see him again).

[Rhlor]

I know all that. But that was the status in WotLK.

Since then we had the Amani threat, the Pandaria campaign and now Legion. We do not know if his current status remains the same, what he thinks of the Silver Covernant, what was his view on the whole Divine Bell/Purge of Dalaran event, and so on. I'd love to have an update on him.

Of course, since there's no update, we can assume everything remains the same, but that's assumption. He could be in a different position next time we see him (if we ever see him again).

The only factual is what is shown in the game for now in the game he still in same place

[Aucald]

He lives in quel'danas because he is the representative of the high elves in the sunwell, auric think all are children of silvermoon and have to fight together

I don't think Auric Sunchaser lives in Quel'Danas - I don't think the Isle of Quel'Danas has much in the way of permanent habitation since the events of the Third War and TBC. He's also a High Elf and would be an exile from Quel'Thalas like the rest of his faction, hardly welcome on a permanent basis. He shows up for the Quel'Delar event as an emissary and diplomat of the High Elves, probably with the implicit permission of Lor'themar's government, but his permanent residence would still be the Allerian Stronghold in Outland insofar as we're aware.

[Thalassian Bob]

To paraphrase Boromir, Quel'thalas has no king. Quel'thalas needs no king.

I'd happily see a Conclave of Silvermoon restored though, with Lor'themar at its head and representatives from the Magisters (Rommath), Farstriders (Halduron) and Blood Knights (Liadrin) all holding a seat. Maybe throw in a position for the leader of the priesthood, trade guilds and the Reliquary too.

I wouldn't be opposed to a seat on the Conclave for the leader of the cooperative high elves too. It'd have to be Auric Sunchaser.

[Rhlor]

I don't think Auric Sunchaser lives in Quel'Danas - I don't think the Isle of Quel'Danas has much in the way of permanent habitation since the events of the Third War and TBC. He's also a High Elf and would be an exile from Quel'Thalas like the rest of his faction, hardly welcome on a permanent basis. He shows up for the Quel'Delar event as an emissary and diplomat of the High Elves, probably with the implicit permission of Lor'themar's government, but his permanent residence would still be the Allerian Stronghold in Outland insofar as we're aware.

Quel'danas has some villages and a port.
Dawnstar Village

Magisters' Terrace

Sun's Reach Harbor


auric never was expelled from quelthalas

[DeicideUH]

auric never was expelled from quelthalas

That's true. He represents the high elves that are closer to the blood elves, and that's why I'd like to see an update on him after all these years. Wouldn't be surprised if he rejoined Quel'thalas and became a blood elf in name.

[Aucald]

Quel'danas has some villages and a port.

auric never was expelled from quelthalas

Quel'Danas *had* some habitation - but it is likely not inhabited now save for garrison forces. Also, Auric is a High Elf - there are currently only two camps of High Elves: those explicitly exiled from Silvermoon or those who were not present in Quel'Thalas in the Third War and still have loyalty to the Alliance. Auric is pretty solidly flagged as Alliance and normally hostile to the Horde, as well as the captain of a High Elven settlement in Outland that is Alliance loyal. I doubt he'd be welcome on a permanent basis in Quel'Thalas unless his loyalties had shifted entirely.