Does the US meddle in the Russian political process?

[Theodarzna]

how's that move to argentina coming along?

Going back to the UK instead it seems.

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Idk you tell me, you're the one that's privy to this alleged war. Oh wait... you think because some forum warriors want to go to war that we actually will? wew lad fortunately we're here in a thing called reality

Well there was the US expeditionary force at the end of 1917.

So, so far only one side has sent troops to another's physical territory. Admittedly for understandablish reasons.

However, I am unsure why we remain antagonistic towards this fairly weak country.

[starlord]

I am curious @darenyon, is all information that isn't unflinchingly singing the praises of the United States Russian Propaganda?

What is the line of what we are allowed to criticize in this glorious Land of the Free, Radiant Shining City on a Hill and definitely the New Jerusalem? How positive should I be? Is there a metric? How far back must I be positive? Is pointing out the trail of tears Anti-American? Our less the savory activities during the Mexican American War? Vietnam?

What is legitimate criticism and discussion in your view?

you could start by not posting something anti american every time someone unearths a stone about russia.
in fact there is no need to compare the us to russia at all to critique it. that might make you more believable.

if you werent intent on promoting russian propaganda, there are oodles of more apt and concrete examples of the us meddling in other countries affairs. the congo & certain happenings in south america spring to mind.

[Mormolyce]

The US's interference in other countries' politics is well known, and it's certainly a common tactic to support rebels et al against governments they don't like. Not necessarily materially though. The Arab Spring is one example of that coming back to bite them in the ass.

Still blaming all your woes on evil foreigners is another favoured tactic of dictatorial regimes. I remember watching a documentary on North Korea, the power went out in people's homes and they said "damn Americans!". So I wouldn't necessarily believe a word Putin says.

[Theodarzna]

you could start by not posting something anti american every time someone unearths a stone about russia.
in fact there is no need to compare the us to russia at all to critique it. that might make you more believable.

if you werent intent on promoting russian propaganda, there are oodles of more apt and concrete examples of the us meddling in other countries affairs. the congo & certain happenings in south america spring to mind.

So your not allowed to compare the activities of two countries that make accusations against one another?

So basically all my posts must be

RUSSIA BAD, AMERICA GOOD! ...? Just making sure I know the acceptable script.

[starlord]

So your not allowed to compare the activities of two countries that make accusations against one another?

So basically all my posts must be

RUSSIA BAD, AMERICA GOOD! ...? Just making sure I know the acceptable script.

your script so far is AMERICA BAD RUSSIA GOOD in almost every thread. may want to rethink your tactics there.

[Mormolyce]

My point is that I am not about to go to war over Wikileaks. In all honesty, Russia has likely been off and on trying to "influence," our elections since 1920. Somewhat how the US expeditionary force that landed in Eastern Russia was trying to influence the civil war there at that same time way back when. Hyperventilating and grandstanding as if this is the worst atrocity since Pearl Harbor is insane or acting like this is an attack is patently histrionic. Plus I am not about to write the Pope and request America be sainted an act as if the US is some sinless angel in this.

I think there's a pretty big distinction between Russia wanting to interfere in US elections and Russia SUCCEEDING in interfering in US elections.

We're talking about the highest levels of the US government potentially being compromised by a hostile foreign actor here, to say it's not a big deal is an Orwellian level denial of reality.

[starlord]

I think there's a pretty big distinction between Russia wanting to interfere in US elections and Russia SUCCEEDING in interfering in US elections.

We're talking about the highest levels of the US government potentially being compromised by a hostile foreign actor here, to say it's not a big deal is an Orwellian level denial of reality.

the question that must be asked is, in whos best interest is it to promote the notion that its not a big deal?

[May90]

However, I am unsure why we remain antagonistic towards this fairly weak country.

It is not as much the US remaining antagonistic towards Russia, as it is Russia being antagonistic towards the West and the West having to respond appropriately. Listen to the internal Russian public media, 90% of the narrative on the international situation is how the evil West led by the US is plotting, trying to take away Russian resources, to destabilize Russia, etc. Pretty hard to be friends with someone who hates you to the point of near-zealotry.

In 90-s, the relations were somewhat warm, because the Russian government was taking a break from the usual "We are surrounded by enemies, we need a strong leader to defend us from them!" attitude. Now, it is back to the gutter. Especially with Trump starting to employ a similar narrative...

[Theodarzna]

your script so far is AMERICA BAD RUSSIA GOOD in almost every thread. may want to rethink your tactics there.

Bad and Good are words you've applied. I'm simply describing behavior. It's like MythicSnow who derived "Evil American Imperialist!" When I've not said those words at all. I've said Empire, but my own homeland was once an Empire.

America I also have not said is inherently evil or bad. Or that Russia is saintly. I think the worst I've said is that America is being belligerent or a bully, which in global affairs isn't some scathing mean comment. Skroe might call it "Maintaining Order".

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It is not as much the US remaining antagonistic towards Russia, as it is Russia being antagonistic towards the West and the West having to respond appropriately. Listen to the internal Russian public media, 90% of the narrative on the international situation is how the evil West led by the US is plotting, trying to take away Russian resources, to destabilize Russia, etc. Pretty hard to be friends with someone who hates you to the point of near-zealotry.

In 90-s, the relations were somewhat warm, because the Russian government was taking a break from the usual "We are surrounded by enemies, we need a strong leader to defend us from them!" attitude. Now, it is back to the gutter. Especially with Trump starting to employ a similar narrative...

Is Russia antagonistic towards the West? It seems the West is where they get invaded from historically, and its the West that's been often prodding, meddling and going after them since at least 1917 and before.

After all, was it not Germany Twice and France once that has invaded them? I come from a nice happy little Island that hasn't had a serious invasion since the Norman Conquest in 1066. The US is a moated fortress, Russia does not have such happy luxuries.

[Hughes]

When did we declare war on Russia? Must have missed that on the news this evening.

Pretty sure "Russia bad" was the narrative for the election.

[Theodarzna]

I think there's a pretty big distinction between Russia wanting to interfere in US elections and Russia SUCCEEDING in interfering in US elections.

We're talking about the highest levels of the US government potentially being compromised by a hostile foreign actor here, to say it's not a big deal is an Orwellian level denial of reality.

Can we actually consider it a success? I mean, what is Russia accused of? And has not the US succeeded and been much more directly, and with much more bloody, involved in other countries and the US also claims credit for meddling much more directly in Russian elections in the 90's then Russia now stands accused of today.

[starlord]

Bad and Good are words you've applied. I'm simply describing behavior. It's like MythicSnow who derived "Evil American Imperialist!" When I've not said those words at all. I've said Empire, but my own homeland was once an Empire.

America I also have not said is inherently evil or bad. Or that Russia is saintly. I think the worst I've said is that America is being belligerent or a bully, which in global affairs isn't some scathing mean comment. Skroe might call it "Maintaining Order".

you used those words, not me.

and you are trying to justify russia planting its tools in our upper echelons of government, not even denying it like most other people.
it is interesting how you gloss over russia menacing its border countries in an effort the paint the us as "just as bad."

[shrunken]

The US primarily toppled the Soviet Union... what the hell kind of question is this?

[Theodarzna]

you used those words, not me.

and you are trying to justify russia planting its tools in our upper echelons of government, not even denying it like most other people.
it is interesting how you gloss over russia menacing its border countries in an effort the paint the us as "just as bad."

I used them in jest obviously. Because I am unsure what it is you want me to say.

Also do you have proof of any of this? Both your accusation in general or accusations against me? This is veering heavily into Conspiracy territory.

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The US primarily toppled the Soviet Union... what the hell kind of question is this?

But is that as bad as WIKILEAKS!? /s

[Dug]

Well there was the US expeditionary force at the end of 1917.

So, so far only one side has sent troops to another's physical territory. Admittedly for understandablish reasons.

However, I am unsure why we remain antagonistic towards this fairly weak country.

1917 lol...

If they're so weak like you claim why does it matter then? Clearly you think they're a threat to nobody so...

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Pretty sure "Russia bad" was the narrative for the election.

"Russia friend" won the election. And what do you know we're not at war! Woo

Russia didn't become a big topic until the final stretch of the election. Before that it was "Trump is literally Hitler we're all going to die" and "But her emails".

[starlord]

I used them in jest obviously. Because I am unsure what it is you want me to say.

Also do you have proof of any of this? Both your accusation in general or accusations against me? This is veering heavily into Conspiracy territory.

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But is that as bad as WIKILEAKS!? /s

proof of what? your sentiments? one need only read your posting history.

[Theodarzna]

1917 lol...

If they're so weak like you claim why does it matter then? Clearly you think they're a threat to nobody so...

If they are so weak, then America is just being a bully and picking on people.

It just bares being mentioned that perhaps maybe we should cool tensions rather than risking a World War because someones political party got curb stomped in the last election.

[Mormolyce]

Can we actually consider it a success? I mean, what is Russia accused of? And has not the US succeeded and been much more directly, and with much more bloody, involved in other countries and the US also claims credit for meddling much more directly in Russian elections in the 90's then Russia now stands accused of today.

The US also nuked two Japanese cities, so if one US city got nuked would that not be a big deal?

[May90]

Is Russia antagonistic towards the West? It seems the West is where they get invaded from historically, and its the West that's been often prodding, meddling and going after them since at least 1917 and before.

After all, was it not Germany Twice and France once that has invaded them? I come from a nice happy little Island that hasn't had a serious invasion since the Norman Conquest in 1066. The US is a moated fortress, Russia does not have such happy luxuries.

Looking at the history, Russia has been an expansionist empire for centuries, and just recently, in 1945-1989 it owned half-Europe. I don't think Russia should complain now, especially since it is the only country in the last quarter of century that annexed a territory of a sovereign state.

In any case, history is not a static process, it is always in motion. It is silly to cling to the old quarrels, ignoring the current realities. My point is, as long as Russia is antagonistic towards the West and doesn't want to go to a set of the necessary compromises in order to improve relations, there isn't much the US can do on its part, and every administration since the Billy's regretted trying to eventually.

[Theodarzna]

proof of what? your sentiments? one need only read your posting history.

My posting history reveals a person who is a theistic existentialist, concerned about the future, and not a big fan of interventionism or Globalism/Globalization. Are those opinions not allowed? Just making sure I know what fits within the realm of "American". Getting citizenship here is such a pain, hate to lose it because I committed Wrong Think.

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The US also nuked two Japanese cities, so if one US city got nuked would that not be a big deal?

If Japan had nuked the United States back I would not consider Japans actions a unique sin against God.