What We Know So Far About Incompetent Trump Sending SEAL Owens To Die

[Elim Garak]

Trump can only be at fault if it was apparent that operation would fail and he still ordered it. If his advisers from pentagon and joint chiefs said it's a sure deal and he approved it and they failed - it's on them.

How that can be so hard to understand?

[Kiri]

LOL - Trump the president who no one riots over.... right. The right doesn't riot, they're not idiots, that's a left quality and they've been doing it damn near every day starting on Trumps election win night, his Inauguration day, the day after his inauguration, etc etc etc.

You're right about one thing though, people do riot and not riot over the same things based simply who does it, but you have the reverse of what you described, where if it's Trump, it will be rioted.

How did I miss all those riots you are talking about? I don't remember one damn near every day for that months. Are you sure you are not confusing things?

[Shaderas]

I don't know.. both sides of this argument are arguing as if they had perfect information on what was going on and make their assumptions based on that. I am willing to bet that none of you have top secret security clearance to know what info was handed to the president and how "ill-advised" this mission was. Yes things do go south in top secret missions sometimes. I believe the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle of the two sides here yelling at each other. He does share a little of the blame because he's the Commander in Chief, but is he entirely or even majorly to blame for this? I sincerely doubt it.

I don't know, I feel like most posters here need to grow up, and get over there opinions. It seems like you hold your own thoughts in the highest esteem. And it wasn't your family or anyone that you knew who died. Have some respect for the family of the fallen.

[NYC17]

I don't know.. both sides of this argument are arguing as if they had perfect information on what was going on and make their assumptions based on that. I am willing to bet that none of you have top secret security clearance to know what info was handed to the president and how "ill-advised" this mission was. Yes things do go south in top secret missions sometimes. I believe the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle of the two sides here yelling at each other. He does share a little of the blame because he's the Commander in Chief, but is he entirely or even majorly to blame for this? I sincerely doubt it.

I don't know, I feel like most posters here need to grow up, and get over there opinions. It seems like you hold your own thoughts in the highest esteem. And it wasn't your family or anyone that you knew who died. Have some respect for the family of the fallen.

Discussion of events leading up to the death of someone does not indicate disrespect for the family of the fallen.

So much drama...

[Tinykong]

I never said "this is how military works".
I explained to you what chain of command is and what commander in chief means. I don't remember contradicting any facts.

You explained what you think they mean. You haven't provided any facts about what the military is actually allowed to do with regards to Presidential authority, you're just making speculative statements based off your unsubstantiated personal experience.

Name one such shit, that would've required an ADDITIONAL and IMMEDIATE presidential approval. I don't want to talk about spherical horses in a vacuum.

Who knows. The possibility exists, and unless Trump was doing something more important (he wasn't) he should have been present.

[Deleted]

man it really is no fun when the thread title is already biased and insulting.

[Elim Garak]

You explained what you think they mean. You haven't provided any facts about what the military is actually allowed to do with regards to Presidential authority, you're just making speculative statements based off your unsubstantiated personal experience.

Military is allowed to do whatever the President their commander in chief has allowed/ordered them to do.

Who knows. The possibility exists, and unless Trump was doing something more important (he wasn't) he should have been present.

So you got nothing? In the age of post-2016 Trump could've been contacted in many ways if the mythical need would've arisen.

[Tinykong]

You know, the most egregious thing about Trump's part in this is the Commander-in-Chief putting a clear line between himself and the military. Trump saying "they lost him" is such a succinct indictment of how he sees himself and the role he is now playing. And it is just a role for him. Someone who is worth a shit and sees himself as a Commander-In-Chief would inherently feel that we lost him. Trump so clearly lacks a core.

Military personal should be outraged, but ultimately the overriding feeling they should have is...concern.

Trump tweeting about his media appearance during the raid proves to me, unequivocally, that he doesn't give a shit about America or Americans, and only about his own ego and image.

He couldn't be assed to go sit in the Situation Room during the raid in case anything were to happen, and because he authorized the mission and should give a shit about what happens, probably because he had his face buried in a bucket of KFC while primping himself and jerking off thinking about how big his electoral college margin was.

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Military is allowed to do whatever the President their commander in chief has allowed/ordered them to do.

And if they need to make a decision about something going on during a live military exercise when lives are being lost, would it be better to have the President in the room able to make decisions immediately, or to communicate with the President remotely through an aide?

So you got nothing? In the age of post-2016 Trump could've been contacted in many ways if the mythical need would've arisen.

I don't need to post anything, because logic proves that situations could exist, otherwise the President wouldn't be the Commander-in-Chief, and the military would conduct these operations with approval from within it's own ranks and not even need to ask the President.

That's not how it works, and is just more made up non sense by veiled Trumpsters who won't openly admit they love him and are willing to go through any mental gymnastics to avoid having to admit he could have done something wrong.

[TZucchini]

Trump can only be at fault if it was apparent that operation would fail and he still ordered it. If his advisers from pentagon and joint chiefs said it's a sure deal and he approved it and they failed - it's on them.

How that can be so hard to understand?

There's plenty of blame to go around. Certainly some belongs to Trump, doesn't it?

He appoints his advisers. He gives final approval of the mission. Are you saying he's totally blameless?

[Pony Soldier]

Now with this failure raid you have to wonder how Trump would handle more dire situations like a nuclear threat. Seeing as how he didn't put much thought into this SEAL raid, how will he handle our nukes? I'd imagine he'd do the same shit and be like "BOMB THE HELL OUTTA THEM!" and push the big red button without any thought. This is what scares me the most about Trump. He could be the death of us all with his kind of decision making skills. But NO! Lets elect Trump because he's anti-PC and he's going to help us small people! We need a businessman in office not a politician. He's going to make America great again!

[Kellhound]

You're the one making the claim, you have to prove it beyond "I'm a retired Tier 1 Special Forces commando for realzies."

And before you try to just regurgitate this back as an attack on my claims, I'm not claiming anything other than simple facts. The President is the Commander-in-Chief, and therefore final decision maker, stands to reason he should be in the room when decisions might need to be made, provided he isn't preoccupied with something more important.

According to several news outlets (and his twitter feed) he was on the White House grounds, just not in the Situation Room.

Sigh.... He is the final Grand Strategy decision maker. This was a simple small tactical raid, it did not warrant any observation let alone interference. The only decision that needed Presidential ok was already made. Read some history on the Vietnam war to get an understanding how utterly unwanted and detrimental involvement by the President and his cabinet is on tactical, operational, and to an extent strategic military operations.

Really, if you have no clue about what you are talking about (which obviously you do not) you really should refrain from making judgement calls.

[Tinykong]

Sigh.... He is the final Grand Strategy decision maker. This was a simple small tactical raid, it did not warrant any observation let alone interference. The only decision that needed Presidential ok was already made. Read some history on the Vietnam war to get an understanding how utterly unwanted and detrimental involvement by the President and his cabinet is on tactical, operational, and to an extent strategic military operations.

Really, if you have no clue about what you are talking about (which obviously you do not) you really should refrain from making judgement calls.

More hand waiving, Trumpidity and rejection of reality.

lels.

[Kellhound]

You keep saying "this is how the military works" and are contradicting commonly available facts without backing up your claims. It's lazy and tiresome.



My point was that this was a serious military operation, involving UAE special forces, a lot of resources and was clandestine in nature. A lot of shit could have gone wrong that could have required the President's approval.

If this was a peace keeping mission, who cares, the likelihood of anything happening is pretty low. This was a major operation, a lot of shit could (and did) go wrong, and hand waiving Trump's responsibility and role in this kind of mission is pathetic Trumpidity.

Had the leader of AQAP been killed, people would have been tripping over each other lining up to kiss Trump's ass, but because the operation was a colossal fuck up, everyone is acting like the President has no role or responsibility in major military operations, which is quite frankly, the dumbest shit I have heard in a long time.

This was a MINOR operation from a military standpoint, involving less than 100 personnel. Now, had it been an entire MEU entering a sovereign country that opposed our entrance (Yemen participated in the raid btw), that would have been a significant operation. His ONLY role was to OK the mission. After that it was the responsibility of the military to carry it out. And FYI, the contingency plans for things going wrong were part of the approval.

I would not have given him credit if it had been a total success, his role was minor (just like Obama's role in the far more risky raid against Osama was minor). He did his role in this minor raid (gave the go ahead), holds responsibility, but does not hold any blame as far as can be seen. And really, one dead and one aircraft lost due to pilot error does not make it a colossal fuck up.

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Trump can only be at fault if it was apparent that operation would fail and he still ordered it. If his advisers from pentagon and joint chiefs said it's a sure deal and he approved it and they failed - it's on them.

How that can be so hard to understand?

I think this is the first time in history I agree with you. Hell just froze over......

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More hand waiving, Trumpidity and rejection of reality.

lels.

"Two dozen SEALs, backed up by 30 to 40 other Americans on the ground and in the air. A half-dozen Yemeni soldiers and a dozen commandos from the United Arab Emirates who had developed the intelligence leading to the target were also involved, and a Marine Corps Quick Reaction Force was waiting offshore, multiple officials said."
That is not a very significant raid size from a military viewpoint.

[Tinykong]

This was a MINOR operation from a military standpoint, involving less than 100 personnel. Now, had it been an entire MEU entering a sovereign country that opposed our entrance (Yemen participated in the raid btw), that would have been a significant operation. His ONLY role was to OK the mission. After that it was the responsibility of the military to carry it out. And FYI, the contingency plans for things going wrong were part of the approval.

I would not have given him credit if it had been a total success, his role was minor (just like Obama's role in the far more risky raid against Osama was minor). He did his role in this minor raid (gave the go ahead), holds responsibility, but does not hold any blame as far as can be seen. And really, one dead and one aircraft lost due to pilot error does not make it a colossal fuck up.

Again, more speculation and conjecture that is contradiction reporting from news outlets and people with verified military back grounds.

The fact that you have completely glossed over 30 civilians being dead, including children, proves to me you're not capable of unbiased, rational discussion here.

It was also Trump's first counter terrorism operation. You'd think he would give a shit to just view the operation for his own edification if nothing else. Please, keep hand waiving, it's clearing the stench of your appeals to authority.

[Kellhound]

Again, more speculation and conjecture that is contradiction reporting from news outlets and people with verified military back grounds.

The fact that you have completely glossed over 30 civilians being dead, including children, proves to me you're not capable of unbiased, rational discussion here.

It was also Trump's first counter terrorism operation. You'd think he would give a shit to just view the operation for his own edification if nothing else. Please, keep hand waiving, it's clearing the stench of your appeals to authority.

The numbers come from reputable news outlets, so that is hardly contradictory. You just dont have a clue about scale.

Collateral damage caused by actions of the enemy is always a side note, and a fact of any operation of this type. That intermixed civilians died is regrettable but does not make the mission a fuck up.

The after action report is far more informative than waiting for snippets of data flowing upstream, but I am sure you are thinking it looks like the situation room in Patriot Games. There is no hand waving, it is a simple matter of placing blame in the proper place, which is not Trump given the known information.

You really need to figure out te significant difference between being responsible for something and being to blame for something. You are trying to place blame where none belongs.

[Tinykong]

The numbers come from reputable news outlets, so that is hardly contradictory. You just dont have a clue about scale.

Collateral damage caused by actions of the enemy is always a side note, and a fact of any operation of this type. That intermixed civilians died is regrettable but does not make the mission a fuck up.

The after action report is far more informative than waiting for snippets of data flowing upstream, but I am sure you are thinking it looks like the situation room in Patriot Games. There is no hand waving, it is a simple matter of placing blame in the proper place, which is not Trump given the known information.

You really need to figure out te significant difference between being responsible for something and being to blame for something. You are trying to place blame where none belongs.

When have I said Trump is to blame for this mission?

Are you even reading what I am posting? I said he should have been in the Situation Room, because he wasn't doing something more important.

[purebalance]

Seeing how the President is suppose to look over all the detail's and then say ya or naw....Yes its all on him.

You do realize hes commander in chief for a reason right?

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God it feels like it will be a thousand years of this shit.

So can we call Obama incompetent over the hospital we blew up while he was in office? I mean he's the commander in chief! He's in charge!

[Raunchy]

Trump really is doin gods work, he gets shit done and he pisses the ever livin hell out of libs its god damn the greatest thing to ever see.

[Dalistar]

this raid was approved by the Obama admin you stupid mother fvcker.

Uhhh no it wasn't and that doesn't even make sense, you would have people believe that Obama ordered a mission a to be done a week after he left office? Obama did not approve it and he was reluctant to approve any boots on the ground in Yemen. Get your facts right, I know trumpsters have a problem with truth.

[PACOX]

Trump can only be at fault if it was apparent that operation would fail and he still ordered it. If his advisers from pentagon and joint chiefs said it's a sure deal and he approved it and they failed - it's on them.

How that can be so hard to understand?

He is the Commander-in-Chief. He was briefed. He approved the raid. Its his responsibility. It gets no simpler than that. If they lied to him then deals with them but its still his responsibility because it was his call. When its a raid that requires the Presidents approval then the President sure better know what he is approving.