New PTR State of Disc [7.2 PTR Build 23657]

[Zhaelan]

So new datamined patch is out for 7.2, and uh wow, lots of disc buffs and rework of our new golden trait.

Forbidden Flame changed to include absorbs and they undid the nerf that it received earlier this xpac bringing it back to 5%

So absorbs are back? I guess, also does the buff to absorbs make mastery significantly worse than the rest of our stats as the smite absorb and pw:s aren't affected by it?

Last thing does Tyranny of Pain changing from 33% of damage taken instead of prevented make it go from 53.2% total damage reduction (13.2% damage healed 40% prevented) to 59.8% total damage reduction?

[Supliftz]

15% more absorb healing doesn't any stronger. Instead of PW:S hitting for ~10% of your health, now it's 11.5.

[KaPe]

None of these sound really significant. Atonement will still be the king, absorbs will still be a small % of healing, though perhaps PW:S might actually be noticeable beyond simply spreading Atonement. In order for things to really change, they'd have to modify spell costs and/or cast times. That, or remove Innervate and Wisdom.

[Deleted]

None of these sound really significant.

you should google the word "significant".

[KaPe]

you should google the word "significant".

Enlighten me. I really don't see how a slightly stronger PW:S and Smite absorb (which is basically meaningless in raid setting) will affect the Disc playstyle.

[smitey]

Pretty "significant" considering we've had zero changes for the last few patches. We do need some Qol changes, especially with Radiance.
"That, or remove Innervate and Wisdom." I like this idea. Level the playing field.

[KaPe]

Pretty "significant" considering we've had zero changes for the last few patches. We do need some Qol changes, especially with Radiance.
"That, or remove Innervate and Wisdom." I like this idea. Level the playing field.

Still, that's entirely different kind of "significance", in the "we know Disc exists" sense. Wouldn't expect too much anyway, since some time ago blue said something about a bigger rework in progress - appearently too big to make it into 7.2. These are just minor changes, which won't really affect anything important.

[Zhaelan]

I like where power word:shield is at(I guess I am just excited to see something supported other than radiance spam).

Also its a little confusing why everyone focuses on atonement healing being all our healing, when its really 5 spells worth of healing. Yeah its all clumped together but I'm pretty sure everyone knows penance is the vast majority of that atonement healing, and after that I would actually debate if the sw: p/ptw and light's wrath even surpasses pw:s in raw healing. I mean it probably does, but saying pw:s is insignificant when it comes to our healing is strange at the very least.

[worcester]

I like where power word:shield is at(I guess I am just excited to see something supported other than radiance spam).

Also its a little confusing why everyone focuses on atonement healing being all our healing, when its really 5 spells worth of healing. Yeah its all clumped together but I'm pretty sure everyone knows penance is the vast majority of that atonement healing, and after that I would actually debate if the sw: p/ptw and light's wrath even surpasses pw:s in raw healing. I mean it probably does, but saying pw:s is insignificant when it comes to our healing is strange at the very least.

The question to ask is whether pw:s is worth casting if it didn't apply atonement. In other words, is it good enough by itself? The answer is probably no. The added healing is great, but make no mistake it is simply a cheap way to apply atonement.

[Zhaelan]

Is there a single disc direct heal that is worth casting without atonement application besides like halo? That is what disc is designed around, every atonement applicator has to be balanced around applying atonement and the potential healing of said atonement, because make no mistake power word radiance is absolute garbage when it comes to its direct healing.

What I was trying to explain is that atonement healing should probably be divided up into all the healing of each damage spell, so everyone can see that penance is our #1 heal, and then everything basically hits the ground. I'm pretty sure its penance at top, then pw:s, then maybe sw: p or light's wrath (for me its smite cause I'm bad and spam it whenever I can for mana neutral non-burst healing). Would pain be worth casting if it didnt proc power of the dark side? How about rapture then if shield didnt apply atonement? I would say 100% definitely but this is me trying to look at disc as a whole spec and not just atonement healing.

[worcester]

Is there a single disc direct heal that is worth casting without atonement application besides like halo? That is what disc is designed around, every atonement applicator has to be balanced around applying atonement and the potential healing of said atonement, because make no mistake power word radiance is absolute garbage when it comes to its direct healing.

What I was trying to explain is that atonement healing should probably be divided up into all the healing of each damage spell, so everyone can see that penance is our #1 heal, and then everything basically hits the ground. I'm pretty sure its penance at top, then pw:s, then maybe sw: p or light's wrath (for me its smite cause I'm bad and spam it whenever I can for mana neutral non-burst healing). Would pain be worth casting if it didnt proc power of the dark side? How about rapture then if shield didnt apply atonement? I would say 100% definitely but this is me trying to look at disc as a whole spec and not just atonement healing.

Unlikely to happen. I've been asking since beta that they split up healing from different effects under the same source (i.e. Deep Healing/Lightbringer). You will need to use advanced logging tools to evaluate the effectiveness of those things, or breakdown of atonement in your case, and these will be close approximations at best.

[Supliftz]

The question to ask is whether pw:s is worth casting if it didn't apply atonement. In other words, is it good enough by itself? The answer is probably no. The added healing is great, but make no mistake it is simply a cheap way to apply atonement.

~1105% sp for 1% mana is worth casting even if it doesn't apply atonement tbh. The fact it also applies atonement makes the spell amazing.

[Noradin]

Is there a single disc direct heal that is worth casting without atonement application besides like halo?

SM is big enough to make a difference on its own in certain situations.

[Floopa]

the only issue 7.2 disc has ATM is that holy priest's are shitting on everyone atm with their hps (that is to say, if holy isn't nerfed you should just play holy)

[Deleted]

the only issue 7.2 disc has ATM is that holy priest's are shitting on everyone atm with their hps (that is to say, if holy isn't nerfed you should just play holy)

To be fair they have been waiting for their spot light for a couple of years now :P.

[KaPe]

To be fair they have been waiting for their spot light for a couple of years now :P.

Not to mention that you'll probably still "need" Holy Paladin for taking care of tanks and Shamans bringing in their ten raid cooldowns. So this "spotlight" might actually mean "congratulations, you're now comparable to Resto Druids."

[Supliftz]

Not to mention that you'll probably still "need" Holy Paladin for taking care of tanks and Shamans bringing in their ten raid cooldowns. So this "spotlight" might actually mean "congratulations, you're now comparable to Resto Druids."

optimal usage of cosmic is flash heal spam, which means you don't really need a hpal x3

[KaPe]

optimal usage of cosmic is flash heal spam, which means you don't really need a hpal x3

I'll believe it when I see it. Pallies were the core of any healing team for years. Yeah, sure, it was (theoretically) possible to heal without them, but you always noticed the difference. Granted, they did manage to deal with Disc being "needed", but that was mostly by turning the spec on its head and nerfing absorbs to the ground. No such thing happened to Paladins.

[Revik]

I took a gander at the changes and they seem alright. The fact Blizzard is including absorbs is nice but not really all the significant as someone mentioned. Having higher damage and healing is what we needed and that appears to be included.

Still need to do something about atonement application. Also feel even with the buffs to damage damage should be scaling higher similar to that of tanks. Tank damage has gone up to 200-300 DPS on average fights with short fights it can go up to 500-600 DPS. Right now IF we spec into damage and basically only do damage we could reach similar marks but that is a mark we should be hitting normally with healing involved.

[Valkaneer]

the only issue 7.2 disc has ATM is that holy priest's are shitting on everyone atm with their hps (that is to say, if holy isn't nerfed you should just play holy)

I take it you don't play with a Holy Pali then. I was hoping to never see Disc aborbs again since disc has shit on everyone now for the last 3 xpacs.