1. #2941
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidillusion View Post
    Take it up with the several ppl that commented on that thread, not me. As i told you i stopped at the beggining of the expantion and just read that recently
    Their comment mean jack shite. Anyone can make any claims about anything they want. Unsubstantiated claims are not worthy of consideration. If you're going to say "Blizzard developers said this", then you better show a quote or a link that shows the Blizzard employees doing just that.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  2. #2942
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    As if people that commented on the thread mean jack crap. That would be like taking anything people are saying in this thread as Blizz's official stance on the matter.

    Come on now, you can do better than that.
    I honestly don't know if it is that way or not, i don't play retail anymore so i can't tell for sure. Lots of ppl were claiming that in the thread, if it isn't so very well. Don't care either way really

  3. #2943
    Banned A dot Ham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vidget View Post

    It meant "what elements of vanilla was better than current retail", not that 100% of the game was better.
    If we are making a comparison even 51% is still better. I disagree with that assertion. Also no. If a person was/is truly doing research you should probably try to be as objective as possible. The question suggests the OP is already off to a horrible start.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DoktorElmo View Post
    I agree that the title is dumb - in my opinion, the whole thread was a bad attempt to troll the MMO-C community, because everyone already knew how the thread is going to evolve.

    As i already said several times, i am NOT playing Vanilla (but i played it 18 months ago with 2 level 60s, thus, i also do not have rose tinted glasses), but i do play and love Legion. I see room for both because, in my opinion, they are 2 very different games with a different target group. If Vanilla WoW was as bad as the community here says, then i wonder how the game was such a success and if i played another vanilla wow than some of the guys here did.

    From a neutral point of view, the thread reads like some guys say "We want to play vanilla" and the anti-vanilla faction automatically responds with "No you don´t, it was the worst game ever".
    There are ways to objectively determine which game is better.

    One could potentially use say a metacritic comparison. But even that is subjective and isn't a comparison of the 2, but rather a rating of the game(s) at different periods in time.

    But again... I didn't actually weigh in.

    I'm really not going to entertain this whole pro-legacy vs anti-legacy argument. Because its subjective... and how are you going to tell someone what they do or don't like. Even still though... that argument lends itself to this false that narrative that if you enjoy one... you don't enjoy the other, or that thinking one is good... means the other is bad. Its not true. I can like Coke and Pepsi (I don't Coke 4 life).

    To that end I assume you refer to your Nostralius experience. Which is NOT a vanilla experience for many reasons. You start with data from 1.12 which is after everyone had their individual class review/second sweep. You had things like a working charge, which took solutions from future xpacs and applied it to vanilla. You also had a pre-determined raid release schedule, which was based on progression and not on Blizzard's development schedule. Bottom line it wasn't the same experience... maybe the same game at heart... but the experience was different (better even). In the end, that's not what was asked. What was asked was why "vanilla" was better. Not to mention that Nost's small team (as hard as they tried) wasn't equipped to deal with cheaters and bots. But again that's NOT vanilla.

    I could go round and round on the failures of the original PvP system alone. RBG and arena(s) have their issues though too that go ignored/overlooked patch after patch, xpac after xpac, season after season.

    I would compare the experience to my teen years in high school. Ya I had fun, but I wouldn't do it again. Arguably I had more fun then... than I do now. I definitely got a lot more sex...(I started to lose my hair when I was 17 and I was married by 22 cut my some slack). That doesn't at all mean that was a better part of my life. If you took my 30 year old mind and put it in my 16 year old body (Nost experience) I might have a fucking ball... but that doesn't mean I want to relive the last 12-14 years, or do them differently.
    Last edited by A dot Ham; 2017-03-03 at 06:24 PM.

  4. #2944
    Banned A dot Ham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vidget View Post
    Those are very minor issues that doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game in any negative way, if anything it makes it a more positive one. It doesn't have to be a carbon copy all the way as long as it feels the same. That's what matters to us, the experience, the feeling, not numbers or dates.
    But that still isn't vanilla is what I am saying. Get off the private server argument.

    1.12 by in large was the final fix/polish to vanilla... almost 2 years after its original release. So a person who lived through the growing pains 1.1-1.12 may have a completely different experience and perspective over someone who only played a very polished 1.12. Not to mention that 1.12 was only out for all of 3-4 months before 2.0.1 came out and changed everything again.

    Nowhere in the OPs post did he talk about private server experience. Once again since you fail to recognize it, vanilla =/= private/legacy server. So when someone talks about vanilla being shit... they're talking about everything in between 1.1 and 1.12 and then all the issues after 1.12 that either did or did not get addressed in future xpacs.

    Personally even if you define vanilla as 1.12, I would still have a great many issues with the game. I still played it, I still enjoyed it. It was like my first joint... but especially knowing NOW where the came could go, based on where it has been. I would still say vanilla is not the best version of WoW.

    Those aren't minor issues either. Maybe charge (especially if you don't play a warrior) but its a pain point, and other classes had/have their own struggles. (It was an example not the ONLY issue) The pace at which content is released is a HUGE issue though and greatly effects experience. Gearing up your MT and healers was the greatest chance at success you had in Vanilla, and it was a huge set back for guilds that had theirs poached from them. So pacing on content is a major concern.

    Not to mention Nost had a lot of interest in a small period of time, and being able to play WITH people (which has nothing to do with the game itself) is a huge bonus/benefit for the player. You had an old game running on a new server.

    I personally chose a low pop server in vanilla, the main reason being stability and the second reason being west coast. God forbid your friend chose a different server to play on... cuz you know what that means. Even for me playing in its prime found myself leveling to 60 at a snails pace and solo. During WoW's growth period. 1 million players on 1 server... ya right, in 2004... with dial up internet... fuck the hell right off.

    The point you keep ignoring is that original vanilla experience was not at all the same experience from private servers.
    Last edited by A dot Ham; 2017-03-03 at 08:03 PM.

  5. #2945
    The only thing better about classic was the community that was built from not having xrealm

  6. #2946
    Quote Originally Posted by moremana View Post
    I really enjoyed reading this. It is probably the best article explaining the way things were intended but then somehow got lost in the ever changing world of WoW.

    I dont think game play itself was better in Vanilla, I think there is alot of Nostalgia, people always want the good times in life to return, whether it be a game or a person or job..etc. So when we look back on Vanilla we remember when the game was good. It was new and exciting, everyone had to explore to get any where, we met people all over the world and played together, it was all new.

    As usual, all good things come to an end, not because they had to, but gamers evolved, to new gamers playing in a exploration world and meeting new people all over the world is not a big thing like it was in 2005.

    I do think the game has lost the MMO part of it. We are now playing in a world where all the new things we had as "veterans" are old now, making friends online and having a "good rep" isnt as important now as it was then. The new designers and the ones to come have that same mentality as the new generations of gamers that arrive and the game gets "updated" to whats important to them.

    I miss Vanilla, I miss all the "new", I miss exploring and I miss meeting new people, but all those things important to me, are not as important to the new generations.

    When I am on my dying bed, I hope that somewhere in my mind I remember those good ole days of World of Warcraft from the early days.

    Note: No disrespect was intended in this post, if I offended you that was not my intention.
    Thanks. I am glad it made sense.

  7. #2947
    Deleted
    People from Vanilla time complaining now were younger, less responsabilities and they linked this feeling with a discovery of a brand new game back then, Vanilla WoW, they think they'll get that back if they can play Vanilla again.

  8. #2948
    Where is my chicken! moremana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maldorhan View Post
    Vanilla WoW, they think they'll get that back if they can play Vanilla again.
    Not all of us, reality is it wont.

    Maybe in the beginning, but most will end up back in Legion or whatever xpac is out minus the players that just cant adapt.

    The only thing I would say is before the new generations of wow bash the nostalgic players, is go play Vanilla, it wasn't so easy for us in the beginning.

    *No disrespect intended to new generation players, leather strapping me wont make you feel better.*

  9. #2949
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    I don't miss any expansions and definitely do not miss classic, and this was coming from EQ where you'd spend hours grinding one AA or a few days in Seb farming for that one item that never dropped and such. It was a different time in gaming and different type of players, though. A lot of players I know who still play could care less about returning to that kind of grind fest, even those who still have oodles of spare time to devote to the game. I wonder who classic is really appealing to? Those with goggles on who read about some of the things which took place when WoW first came out, those who started a couple months before TBC(pre-patch) who thinks that's how it was all along, those who started during TBC who pretend to know what it was like coming out of the Beta for Classic or others. It's tough to know since quite a few people pretend they started when the game came out. (As well as everybody on here claiming to be 10/10M ) I say just move on. You can never truly return back home after moving out, and the same applies to long gone games of old.
    Last edited by Moggie; 2017-03-04 at 03:45 PM.

  10. #2950
    Dreadlord Silver-Fox's Avatar
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    I think what I miss from classic was the sense of immersion and discovery. The world [of warcraft] was a very big place we first started playing and felt more like an adventure game then, with an emphasis on discovery, exploration and questing.

    Now WoW feels more like "plate-spinning game", you log in and check off as many boxes and rinse-and-repeat each day. While we now have a steady stream of new stuff to do, it still feels like the game lacks any mystery or new things to discover outside what is ultimately controlled by a myriad of random number generators.

  11. #2951
    I agree with a lot of others when I say I miss the discovery. Everything was so new to me and everyone else. It really created a sense of community when you can spend 2 hours in one cave and it's not even a dungeon.

  12. #2952
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by moremana View Post
    Not all of us, reality is it wont.

    Maybe in the beginning, but most will end up back in Legion or whatever xpac is out minus the players that just cant adapt.

    The only thing I would say is before the new generations of wow bash the nostalgic players, is go play Vanilla, it wasn't so easy for us in the beginning.

    *No disrespect intended to new generation players, leather strapping me wont make you feel better.*
    I was playing in Vanilla so I wouldnt bash a community i'm a part of, just saying that nostalgia sometimes doesnt let you (ie vanilla players) stay as objective as you think you are.

  13. #2953
    Where is my chicken! moremana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maldorhan View Post
    I was playing in Vanilla so I wouldnt bash a community i'm a part of, just saying that nostalgia sometimes doesnt let you (ie vanilla players) stay as objective as you think you are.
    wasnt bashing ...

  14. #2954
    Quote Originally Posted by Vidget View Post
    I realized that the reason I still play retail is because of nostalgia. I really don't like the game but given all the fond memories I have of it I've had a hard time letting go. It wasn't until I got heavily re-invested into vanilla that I started feeling that I could probably let retail go. I really enjoy playing vanilla, I can't put it down so to speak.
    It's nice to hear a friendly voice, who enjoys good content.

    I really want to love retail .. but I can't, for numerous reasons, but largely because retail is a shell of what Vanilla was. TBC as well honestly, but this thread is about Vanilla.

    Blizzard aggravates me. PR stunts, promotions, downplaying of classic versions (shilling?). Then putting a PR spin about how players want more time walking. Pristine was bad enough, but when that got chopped to pieces (their own forums, here, elsewhere), articles started appearing about how players wanted more time walking. Give me a break. There was no discussion of this - but it appeared. It's Blizzard trying to inform players what they want, which they are very good at - but people should be aware of, all the same.

  15. #2955
    Quote Originally Posted by Tome View Post
    I'm not even going to deny that this was the case. Some classes had it slightly harder, and more mentally draining levelling.

    But damn, priest was so worth it the higher level you got.

    You had that proof that you managed to level as one, and you were wanted everywhere. Dwarf priests were the absolute best raid healers because of Fear Ward.
    Ret Pally was the same way. I leveled a pally as my 1st toon and then another for horde side after TBC came out. And I don't even "main" a pally now but I always keep my 1 pally almost as good as whatever toon I'm loving at the moment as a "main".
    Me thinks Chromie has a whole lot of splaining to do!

  16. #2956
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    What made classic wow better than current? Vanilla requires 75% less time (for raiders) xD

  17. #2957

  18. #2958
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    I'd not say that Vanilla was better or worse, it was a much different game though, there was much less QoL, like running to the dungeon and only 1 HS, only mages and Warlock had any sort of utility such as summoning or portals (compared to now where my main is only 1-2 portals/teleports away from wherever I need to be).

    Only random BG's were cross server and they were only within your battlegroup (a group of 3-4 realms) which meant that over time you got to know the people on your server and they got to know you, which was obviously an incentive not to be an ass like 90% of the people in LFG as if people knew you were an ass nobody would group with you and the game would get a lot worse.

    The game was also a lot less progression orientated than it is now which meant you joined a guild for friends and atmosphere given that raiding was so exclusive that only 1-2 guilds on your realm were doing it.

    There are still guilds like that around these days but they're few and far between and these guilds usually have their core membership who've been together ~10 years+ so it obviously isn't as inclusive for people joining now.

    Vanilla was also a huge step forward for MMO's at the time and was so impressive for it's time that people hold it on a pedestal even now, the game is better now from a QoL perspective, but the community aspect is much worse which is kind of sad.

  19. #2959
    Deleted
    I liked the sense of server community in Classic. You got to know many friends and enemies on your server over time. It felt more personal. "Hey, I know that guy! He killed me yesterday while I was farming furlborgs in Winterspring. Time for payback!" Now every player is just a shade in a sea of servers. Most people I will never see again after meeting them once.

    Apart from that? Nothing that I can think of. Classic was at best very rough around the edges, at worst tedious.

  20. #2960
    Quote Originally Posted by Crunchbringer View Post
    I liked the sense of server community in Classic. You got to know many friends and enemies on your server over time. It felt more personal. "Hey, I know that guy! He killed me yesterday while I was farming furlborgs in Winterspring. Time for payback!" Now every player is just a shade in a sea of servers. Most people I will never see again after meeting them once.

    Apart from that? Nothing that I can think of. Classic was at best very rough around the edges, at worst tedious.
    I would think the RPG and exploration elements would stand out as well. Character stats were important, but needed to be balanced with resistance stats (ie higher resists, lower stats).

    I can understand how some people see real-time travel as tedious, although I thought it really added to the game. The feel. A competitor, Warhammer, for instance came out with a similar product to WoW a decade ago. Outside of the bugs, my biggest annoyance was that flight masters simply teleported you instantly you to another location. No scenic flights. I voiced my dislike to their Customer Service - they ignored me - I unsubscribed - the game went bankrupt.

    All this said because I like real time travel. Blizzard has been working to make the game even more accessible than it already is, but throwing out instant ports here, there, and everywhere .. only diminish the game, IMO.

    Oh well. I can't truly enjoy a game where I complete all 200 expansion quests in several days. I actually miss the tedium. It was fair back then, because EVERYONE had the same slower paced RPG gameplay experience. On the same note, slow leveling was also fair, because it was experienced by everyone. That 60 got it easier than yourself? Guess again.
    Last edited by Vineri; 2017-03-06 at 02:44 AM. Reason: typo

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