Over 2000 guilds stuck at 3/10 mythic, was tuning 7 bosses to 54 traits a mistake?

[Deleted]

Let's see it from another point of view:

Why you shuold have 54 trait point right now? Why you (or the majority of guilds) need to be able to clear NH Myt (the full of it) in a few weeks? What's wrong in a guild that clear the last boss just a week before the next raid?

Let's stop this meme "I need 54 trait and be able to clear a whole myt raid in 1 month".

[KaPe]

Let's stop this meme "I need 54 trait and be able to clear a whole myt raid in 1 month".

You realize that instead of "this meme" you're making a strawman, right? You're acting as if 54 traits trivialized Nighthold and made all bosses past Trillax simply fall over dead - thus clearly proving that people complaining about this issues are crybabies. Good thing we have posters like you - whose logic and reason unmask those wannabe mythic raiders who only want free loot. It's also highly original and totally didn't appear in this thread at all.

[Deleted]

You realize that instead of "this meme" you're making a strawman, right? You're acting as if 54 traits trivialized Nighthold and made all bosses past Trillax simply fall over dead - thus clearly proving that people complaining about this issues are crybabies. Good thing we have posters like you - whose logic and reason unmask those wannabe mythic raiders who only want free loot. It's also highly original and totally didn't appear in this thread at all.

Yeah but sum up this thing: 54 trait, a full MYT equip (thanks to the previous boss farming), the nerf that almost always comes, the experience you build after weeks and weeks. Now, you have the experience to clear it all, even if you can do it a few days before next raid.

As i already said, the difference between me and MR World First, is ZERO. I have the same achievement, the same gear, the same title, the same mount. In game wise, nothing change.

And another thing, i am totally ok with mythic being so hard that not everyone can clear it, i mean, even if i train hard every day in running, most probably i will not be able to beat Bolt. Who cares.

[salovia]

I'm fine and happy with bosses taking over 75 wipes to kill, but the 4th boss of a raid taking over a month for 2000 mythic guilds is a huge error on blizzards front.

You seem like the kind of person that complains when a tier is cleared in a month, but if it takes longer than a month, you complain that there is some 'huge error'. People like you are impossible to please. Oh well.

[KaPe]

You seem like the kind of person that complains when a tier is cleared in a month, but if it takes longer than a month, you complain that there is some 'huge error'. People like you are impossible to please. Oh well.

On the other hand, you seem like a person who considers 4/10 to be "clearing a tier". People like you are impossible to argue with. Oh well.

[stevenho]

All it comes down to is that Trillax is way too easy.

[iky43210]

nerf krosus, slightly nerf spellblade, slightly buff trillax, buff tich. Keep bot the same

Now you have a more linear progression

[Deleted]

personally, i doubt blizz would balance any boss around 54 traits as that would be beyond stupid, the problem is underperforming classes, even if you're highly skilled some classes just cant punch out the numbers unless they have bis legendaries AND 54 traits, a class like fire mage is a perfect example of this as that is currently one of the worst classes for ST dps atm.

[kamuimac]

nerf krosus, slightly nerf spellblade, slightly buff trillax, buff tich. Keep bot the same

Now you have a more linear progression

nerf will come with 7.2 and new abilities/artifact levels you will get. there is 0 need to nerf anything now.

once that hit i bet people will flood topics "this content is so lol easy now that every retard will clear it why nerf so much blizz "

[Deleted]

I went quickly through some of the most recent Trilliax kills and I think I can pretty safely say that those players were well above 35.

Difference between 35 and 54 is obviously quite big, but the difference between 48 and 54 on the other hand is not that huge deal. Sure it is more damage, but if you're clearing heroic every week and the mythic bosses you have previously killed, the gear is going to make up for it.

If I recall correctly Blizzard stated at the blue post that last three bosses were tuned for 54, but the rest were not. At least in my experience it seems plausible.

We had 5x dps players that didn't have 54 on our mythic Gul'dan kill. They were alts and off specs. We needed to stop damaging the boss couple of times so we could get clear transition from phase to the other, so dps wasn't issue.

What I'm trying to say is that sometimes class A is so much stronger than class B, that it doesnt matter if class B has inferior gear or artifact, its still going to perform better. Simply changing comp and optimizing your cooldown management/movement/raid coordination you are going to get bigger benefits in total dps, than just rushing to 54 with really bad raid composition and no clue about encounters in total.

I guess the other problem with 3/10M guilds is that "why you pick Krosus as fourth boss?". Krosus is quite simple when it comes to the mechanics of the fight, but from these four available bosses its going to require the most raid dps. Tichondrius and Spellblade for example are more about managing the mechanics and the boss is going to hit the ground when you get them right. Botanist requires some damage as well. But since you don't have to rush second guy down, you can just wait for all your offensive CD's to be up for the last guy. There is of course a way to kill it, which will require less damage and more coordination, if you like it that way.

[Magicpot]

You seem to be bypassing any fact or logic being offered here. There are so many contributing factors.
If you just want to complain that everything is too hard then do so, but if you're opening the debate as to what the reasons may be beyond your "54 too hard" point then you may want to search a little deeper and actually consider the other ideas an opinions.

Then either tuning needs to accomodate all of these factors, or these factors need to be looked at.

What he's saying and where he's right is that the tuning is completly out of whack in comparison to the first 3.

I went quickly through some of the most recent Trilliax kills and I think I can pretty safely say that those players were well above 35.

Difference between 35 and 54 is obviously quite big, but the difference between 48 and 54 on the other hand is not that huge deal. Sure it is more damage, but if you're clearing heroic every week and the mythic bosses you have previously killed, the gear is going to make up for it.

If I recall correctly Blizzard stated at the blue post that last three bosses were tuned for 54, but the rest were not. At least in my experience it seems plausible.

We had 5x dps players that didn't have 54 on our mythic Gul'dan kill. They were alts and off specs. We needed to stop damaging the boss couple of times so we could get clear transition from phase to the other, so dps wasn't issue.

What I'm trying to say is that sometimes class A is so much stronger than class B, that it doesnt matter if class B has inferior gear or artifact, its still going to perform better. Simply changing comp and optimizing your cooldown management/movement/raid coordination you are going to get bigger benefits in total dps, than just rushing to 54 with really bad raid composition and no clue about encounters in total.

I guess the other problem with 3/10M guilds is that "why you pick Krosus as fourth boss?". Krosus is quite simple when it comes to the mechanics of the fight, but from these four available bosses its going to require the most raid dps. Tichondrius and Spellblade for example are more about managing the mechanics and the boss is going to hit the ground when you get them right. Botanist requires some damage as well. But since you don't have to rush second guy down, you can just wait for all your offensive CD's to be up for the last guy. There is of course a way to kill it, which will require less damage and more coordination, if you like it that way.

I guess the disagreement is about who should get to clear mythic. EN M was easy by comparison to other mythics, but I found that to be fair and justified. After all, there isn't much sense designing content that only .1% of the players will ever clear.

Maybe it's time to get rid of the mythic difficulty and refocus on making normal and heroic more enjoyable.

[Deleted]

Then either tuning needs to accomodate all of these factors, or these factors need to be looked at.

What he's saying and where he's right is that the tuning is completly out of whack in comparison to the first 3.




I guess the disagreement is about who should get to clear mythic. EN M was easy by comparison to other mythics, but I found that to be fair and justified. After all, there isn't much sense designing content that only .1% of the players will ever clear.

Maybe it's time to get rid of the mythic difficulty and refocus on making normal and heroic more enjoyable.

well you always have the option to do whatever difficulty you want, but the problem is when you go from 1 patch to another, only to have your class nerfed into oblivion when it was already middle of the pack in raids and the devs are too focused on getting content out 3ish months from now, rather than solve the problems that are currently in the game, the current content would be pretty well balanced if every class was on an equal footing but they are not, blizz have seriously f***ed up the legendary system, the artifact system, raid boss design and class balancing(the fact that most melee are rather overtuned compared to ranged on top of the fact that nighthold is extremely melee friendly, having ranged fall further behind bcoz they have to do mechanics while melee can just faceroll boss), not getting a spot bcoz your class sucks or you feel like you're holding the guild back bcoz of class suckage isnt exactly fun.

[Deleted]

Yeah. Good luck with that.

And how many raids do you know that are full of fire mages, unholy dk's and destro warlocks?

In my guild we had a couple fire mages we had to bench on krosus because they didn't have a viable frost/arcane spec (no leg, low artifact level), one of those quit the game shortly after that (tired of legion grinding).

[KaPe]

What I'm trying to say is that sometimes class A is so much stronger than class B, that it doesnt matter if class B has inferior gear or artifact, its still going to perform better. Simply changing comp and optimizing your cooldown management/movement/raid coordination you are going to get bigger benefits in total dps, than just rushing to 54 with really bad raid composition and no clue about encounters in total.

"Changing comp" is not an option for most of the guilds. Yeah, sure, they might swap couple people around, but it's never going to be "we'll replace worst three specs for three Demon Hunters/Rogues/whatever." It's worse than it used to be in previous expansions, since you cannot even change specs within the class, unless you lucked out on legendaries *and* grinded a lot. Krosus makes it obvious - it's relatively early, it has massive dps differences between specs and it screws most casters specs. "Just spec Frost" used to be the answer in the past. Nowadays, not so much.

[cFortyfive]

I guess the disagreement is about who should get to clear mythic. EN M was easy by comparison to other mythics, but I found that to be fair and justified. After all, there isn't much sense designing content that only .1% of the players will ever clear.

Disagree and it's actually quite the opposite - there are way more than enough difficulties available to be cleared for players who aren't suitable for mythic.

[Halobob87]

Disagree and it's actually quite the opposite - there are way more than enough difficulties available to be cleared for players who aren't suitable for mythic.

100% agree. Mythic should be hard, and NH tuning is more then fine (exp after the changes at Augur and Elisande).

Mythic is not for every one, If your group can't stand up with the difficulty, just give up and do other things, Legion have an absurd amount of content for all levels of play.

EN, with the only exceptions of Cenarius, evil tree and Nythendra, was just a silly joke on M

[Kirbypro]

Mythic is not for every one, If your group can't stand up with the difficulty, just give up and do other things, Legion have an absurd amount of content for all levels of play.

Why don't you go do a dungeon for the 100th, 200th time and see how that goes. Mythic+ is not an "absurd amount of content", its not new content.

NH tuning is not fine and people have shown stats for it, you're completed deluded.

[Osmeric]

NH tuning is not fine and people have shown stats for it, you're completed deluded.

Beyond the stats, Blizzard's comments also show they don't think it's fine. Specifically: they are not happy with the post-35 trait system (as witnessed by comments and by how they're not doing that again in 7.2), and they said the latter part of NH is tuned assuming you have those traits.

[DakonBlackblade]

Disagree and it's actually quite the opposite - there are way more than enough difficulties available to be cleared for players who aren't suitable for mythic.

This is not quite accurate, first who is suitable to clear mythic is something arbitrarily decided by Blizz, if they want to make it so only the top 20 guilds clear it they just tune it accordingly. Second there is a very big portion of the playerbase that find heroic way too freaking easy but have a hard time at mythic NH and that found mythic EN to be perfect. There is a large spectrum of players with varying skill/time invested that are simply too good for heroic, Blizzard is currently catering only to the extreme end of this spectrum which is seriously hurting them more than helping since mid tier guilds are getting disheartened and elite guilds are getting too tired.

NH was easier than Id’ve liked it to be, but it was an awesome raid for the game, it kept lots and lots of players engaged for a very long time, as you had elites clearing it fast (like they should/always do), mid-tier guilds clearing it in 2 or so months, and lower tier ones taking 4-5 months and actually getting a last boss kill which is something they usually don't get. The elite guilds might’ve been displeased but Blizz should not be aiming anything at them, they either need to create a separate difficulty/server only for them or just stop trying to cater for the top 0.1% that will do anything in their power and play for way too long in order to clear anything Blizz throws at them fast. And lastly why should it matter for anyone that cleared the content in the first 1-2 weeks if someone else clears it 4 months later ?

[cFortyfive]

and that found mythic EN to be perfect

While I generally have a hard time taking posts with that horrible spelling serious - 20 pull endbosses for what's supposed to be the hardest content available isn't perfect. You might just as well leave it at heroic if that's your target group.