RESTO Relics: Queen Ascendant vs Tidal Chains ?

[Korban]

Ok, so i got 2 Queen Ascendant relics (Frost+Life) that would bump me to 25% reduced cast time after crit heals (vs 20% i got now)
And I got one Tidal Chains relic (Life)

Which one should I use? Second Queen Ascendant or put Tidal chains in that slot?

Third spot i use for +crit to Chain Heal


Queen Ascendant seems to reduce cast time only.
Tidal Chance says that it reduces cast time and increases +Crit which is nice.

[ItsTiddles]

It's important to note the ilvl. Are they the same?

Also, the Tidal Chance isn't a buff to every ability. Just additional cast time reduction when you use a tidal wave proc with healing wave and addition crit when you use a tidal wave proc with healing surge. Queen Ascendant effects every(?) ability.

[Korban]

They are same ilvl. So Tidal Chains only buffs H.Surge + H.Wave? Sounds like it's a dungeon (5 man) relic

I also got the one that gives +5% Heal to Healing Surge and Healing Wave (but i guess it's also more for m+ dungeons)

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Sounds like Queen Ascendant + Tidal Chains is a good combo.

Tidal Chains give +Crit % to HS+HW and then Queen Ascendant procs more often. Badass Dungeon combo.

[Guran]

Tidal Chains only buffs the effect of Tidal Waves, so +crit is only for HS, not HW. HW gets the cast time reduction.
It is an additional 3% reduction and 4% crit per rank I believe (10% of the buff), so 0.075s extra reduction pre-Haste on HW cast with TW buff.
If you use Chain Heal enough, the extra crit + Queen Ascendant works really well together, as CH is generally a slower heal and each jump can proc QA iirc.
If your focus is mostly on M+, especially with Crashing Waves talent, then Buffeting Waves (the +5% HW/HS one) and Tidal Chains are probably a bit better.
QA also works with Riptide's direct heal (procs buff, but doesn't consume it)

In short:
M+ -> Buffeting, Tidal Chains, Queen Ascendant > Pull of the Sea & Wavecrash (only if relic is better ilvl)
focus on the direct cast heals
raids -> Floodwaters & Queen Ascendant > Tidal Chains & Buffeting Waves
focus on more CH usage, fill in ST heals by using up TW
both -> ilvl > trait, really depends on personal feeling as to what you are comfortable playing with.

[Korban]

Good post. Thanks.

[ItsTiddles]

M+ -> Buffeting, Tidal Chains, Queen Ascendant > Pull of the Sea & Wavecrash (only if relic is better ilvl)
focus on the direct cast heals

I'm sad you put Pull of the Sea and Wavecrash together. Pull of the Sea buffs your 2nd highest highput (maybe first for some people?). Wavecrash benefits raiding more than it does m+, in my opinion. I use HST more for the damage reduction in higher keys.

[Korban]

I use HST more for the damage reduction in higher keys.

Reduction how? The "resist" effect?

And what are in your opinion best Raid Heal relics?

[ItsTiddles]

Reduction how? The "resist" effect?

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=207354/...the-tidemother
It's 10% at the base 3/3, which is pretty noticeable on some fights. Especially since shamans don't have a lot of defensive abilities outside of Astral Shift and SLT. For instance on Arcway+21 Tyrannical, General Xakal's wicked slam one shot our ww monk until he combo'd a stam flask with my Ancestral Vigor talent. I kept a HST charge for each slam and occasionally ghost wolfed for more minor DR and was able to survive every one without depending on Astral Shift.

And what are in your opinion best Raid Heal relics?

I don't use a chain heal play-style in raid, so I might not much of use to you here. I prefer the same relics as I do for mythic+, currently running Pull of the Sea + Buffeting Waves + Queen Ascendant. I, personally, wouldn't take Floodwaters/Wavecrash unless it was 2+ weapon ilvls and Ghost in the Mist/Caress of the Tidemother unless it was probably 3-4+ minimum.

[Korban]

So what's your playstile? Single target healing with Riptide / HS / HW ?

How much +% does Pull of the Sea have at 3/3 ? Mine shows 6% - seems pretty low. (Altho a do a ton of Riptide healing. Was #1 spell on Heroic Guldan)

And would you consider adding a second Queen Ascendant to your setup if you had an extra one?

[ItsTiddles]

So what's your playstile? Single target healing with Riptide / HS / HW ?

Yes, mostly healing rain + HST + Riptide/HS/HW with a lot of CDs.

How much +% does Pull of the Sea have at 3/3 ? Mine shows 6% - seems pretty low.

Each rank is +5%. So 3/3 is +15%. It effects both the initial heal and the hot.

And would you consider adding a second Queen Ascendant to your setup if you had an extra one?

If it were the same ilvl, probably not. I'm not sure how much it would change my output, as I already run 10% haste and don't really feel the need for quicker cast times at the current difficulty I play at.

[Guran]

I'm sad you put Pull of the Sea and Wavecrash together. Pull of the Sea buffs your 2nd highest highput (maybe first for some people?). Wavecrash benefits raiding more than it does m+, in my opinion. I use HST more for the damage reduction in higher keys.

That's because, for me, it's about half of what HW/HS do overall. So BW relics pretty much do double the effect. With HST often hitting >40% of Riptide healing done, PotS is pretty close to Wavecrash for me. Then again, I've only gotten the belt last week and haven't had the chance to play with it in Mythics yet, which might have a large impact on RT usage. (My base setup is actually legs + bracers atm)


For our recent Elisande HC kill, I've also swapped to High Tide & AG (running Floodwaters, QA & TC relics) for the more consistent AoE healing, where QA was up a LOT (63% uptime) and the combined mana save/return of bracers + Resurgence was 1.45mil mana (AKA 130% of my mana bar)
Floodwaters + QA for raid healing certainly is a strong combo, but I'ld say with the base 3 points in Floodwaters + crit from gear, I'ld advocate more QA, BW and TC or PotS as a middle ground for those doing both raiding and mythics, as you can't swap relics as easily as talents.


PS: On an unrelated note, AG turned out to be as efficient as Ascendance for me, with an average 6% overhealing vs the nearly 50% Ascendance usually hits. 10s/2min vs 15s/3min means equal uptime overall on top of not being the same CD as our 2 other ones, but not having Crashing Waves does make me sad. If only I could swap Echo or Vigor/Shield Totem for a chance to pick it back up.

[Gunwolf]

Ok, so i got 2 Queen Ascendant relics (Frost+Life) that would bump me to 25% reduced cast time after crit heals (vs 20% i got now)
And I got one Tidal Chains relic (Life)

Which one should I use? Second Queen Ascendant or put Tidal chains in that slot?

Third spot i use for +crit to Chain Heal


Queen Ascendant seems to reduce cast time only.
Tidal Chance says that it reduces cast time and increases +Crit which is nice.

Dunno if u got ur answer already, but as mentioned.... QA is a proc that triggers on crit and adds a chunk of haste, while tidal chains improves ur tidal waves, a buff that triggers everytime u use riptide or chain heal. I really like queens ascendance, if u are stacking crit stat (which most do for mana already) then u will get lots of these procs and it gives a big haste buff... so having atleast one, if not two, relics for QA is good. Tidal chains is solid too tho, since tidal waves is a buff u will have up alot and can use strategically for either a meaty HW or quick crit HS. If it were me then I would prob go with one of each, while QA is great it already gives a nice chunk of haste and tidal waves is more reliable so u can take advantage of the bonus more often.

That's because, for me, it's about half of what HW/HS do overall. So BW relics pretty much do double the effect. With HST often hitting >40% of Riptide healing done, PotS is pretty close to Wavecrash for me. Then again, I've only gotten the belt last week and haven't had the chance to play with it in Mythics yet, which might have a large impact on RT usage. (My base setup is actually legs + bracers atm)


For our recent Elisande HC kill, I've also swapped to High Tide & AG (running Floodwaters, QA & TC relics) for the more consistent AoE healing, where QA was up a LOT (63% uptime) and the combined mana save/return of bracers + Resurgence was 1.45mil mana (AKA 130% of my mana bar)
Floodwaters + QA for raid healing certainly is a strong combo, but I'ld say with the base 3 points in Floodwaters + crit from gear, I'ld advocate more QA, BW and TC or PotS as a middle ground for those doing both raiding and mythics, as you can't swap relics as easily as talents.


PS: On an unrelated note, AG turned out to be as efficient as Ascendance for me, with an average 6% overhealing vs the nearly 50% Ascendance usually hits. 10s/2min vs 15s/3min means equal uptime overall on top of not being the same CD as our 2 other ones, but not having Crashing Waves does make me sad. If only I could swap Echo or Vigor/Shield Totem for a chance to pick it back up.

Yea, BW relics seem to be pretty solid... and the combo of buff waves, Tidal chains, and queen ascendant give you some nice synergy for strong primary heals that have high crit and short cast times. Riptide is good too, just depends how often u use it.... in dungeons you use alot more riptide then CHL, while in raids you can keep that same type of healstyle or be more CHL focused for raid heals and to proc tidal waves.

I personally would rank the riptide relic above the faster HST one tho.... HST is great, but its also just small passive healing. It may seem high in overall heal numbers, but gotta keep in mind that those heals weren't healing with much priority just random allies who took damage. Riptide is an active heal that is used often (for one style atleast to keep tidal waves up) including on low hp players. It doesn't compare to what HS/HW can put out, esp after the other buffs.... but i still feel its more significant then hst.

[Radianshot]

I like Tidal chains, its good at any ilvl and heavily reduces your healing wave cast time, as well as providing you a higher crit % if required on HS. Queen's Ascendant on the other hand performs better when you have more crit & in chain heal spam.
>I personally use 2 tidal chain relics and the 3rd one i'd leave for queen's ascendants or floodwaters.
>Buffeting waves isn't so bad but i'd rank it slightly lower the queen's / floodwaters
>Empowered droplets will probably be stronger in 7.2 with the new tier set but it'll be heavily dependent on the group needing to stack up in healing rain, and may require the user to have some haste to increase healing rain too.
Queen's ascendants should be better for you overall if you're more of a raider, as well as if you're able to have high crit % at your ilvl and your lineup doesn't require a spot healer (eg: hpal / hpriest / mastery mw [this shouldn't really even appear in raid]), else maybe tidal chains will help you fill up the missing spot-healer role your raid needs.

[zoroaester]

I play a cbt build first off, so my needs may be different from someone playing a different spec. I personally shoot for 2 Queens ascendence and 1 chain heal crit relic. My logic behind this is that i dont really want to prioritize getting haste or too much critt, but what i do want are these fatty segments when raid dmg is going out where i can chain heal spam for a a few seconds and load up a fatty cbt to pop. Since chain heal can crit on any of its hits, any of which can proc QA the One chain heal relic is sufficient. Then the double QA lets you really get a good cast reduction on you follow up chain heals. Basically what I want from it is super sexy chain heal burst segments to allow for a cbt to top everyone off right quick

[angvalente]

Hello, so I got a 885 Queen Ascendant last night. I currently have 895 Buffering Waves. What do you all think I should go with? I am thinking since the 895 is significantly higher, I need to stay with that, but I know Queen is awesome.

[ItsTiddles]

Hello, so I got a 885 Queen Ascendant last night. I currently have 895 Buffering Waves. What do you all think I should go with? I am thinking since the 895 is significantly higher, I need to stay with that, but I know Queen is awesome.

The 3 ilvls is probably worth it, imo. The only thing I wouldn't take at 3 weapon ilvls is Ghost in the Mist/Caress of the Tidemother.

[Huanak]

In 7.2. They will +1 to all 3/3 trait to make it 4/4.

Resto have so many good 3/3 trait. This 4/4 is really nice buff to resto playstyle.