What made classic wow better than current?

[Charge me Doctor]

I only played this expansion at the very begining but from what i've read you actually need to have a minimum of traits to actually have a chance of downing some bosses since they are tunned around that value, isn't it so? If what i've read is correct, then your "no AP spent wouldn'd prevent you from downing bosses" isn't the most accurate sentence.

That's bullshit, bosses are not "tuned around ppl having 54 traits", they are tuned around certain amount of damage. If you can pull 800k DPS with 1 trait - good for you (which is impossible), but if you can't - here your option, farm AP and get more traints into your weapon.
Using this bullshit-of-way-of-thought you can argue that raid bosses are balanced around having runes, other runes, 2 potions, flask and food on every pull.

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I think they expected ppl to be at least 35 by 7.2 and only the most dedicated would cap it. I started over xmas and i'm at 47 nearly, then again i only raid normal/heroic so haven't felt that i needed to grind ap to over come the encounters, most of it is still down to execution and just not failing at the mechanics.

It's just people who hit a roadblock in mythic who try to blame lack of traits (by this point they should be maxed out, so i don't see how it this relevant to any mythic raider) instead of raid performance

[Kyanion]

I can understand how some people see real-time travel as tedious, although I thought it really added to the game. The feel. A competitor, Warhammer, for instance came out with a similar product to WoW a decade ago. Outside of the bugs, my biggest annoyance was that flight masters simply teleported you instantly you to another location. No scenic flights. I voiced my dislike to their Customer Service - they ignored me - I unsubscribed - the game went bankrupt.

Well damn I was wondering why that game died. It was because Vineri unsubbed because of no scenic flights. That was the only reason. Or maybe the game was a steaming pile of shit and lost tons of players in the first month to really poorly thought out PvP, class balance, questionable choices of 'fixing' issues and the best one, poorly optimized graphics that caused many people with good systems to have hella issues running it. Also known as "The Vanguard special".

[Vineri]

Well damn I was wondering why that game died. It was because Vineri unsubbed because of no scenic flights. That was the only reason. Or maybe the game was a steaming pile of shit and lost tons of players in the first month to really poorly thought out PvP, class balance, questionable choices of 'fixing' issues and the best one, poorly optimized graphics that caused many people with good systems to have hella issues running it. Also known as "The Vanguard special".

Did you have a point, or just another of your rants?

I am terribly sorry you have a different opinion than myself. I laid out points. You vented. Have a cookie, you will feel better.

[Kyanion]

Did you have a point, or just another of your rants?

I am terribly sorry you have a different opinion than myself. I laid out points. You vented. Have a cookie, you will feel better.

The point is the game didn't die because of you quitting it or because of the reason you stated. Have a cookie, you aren't special.

[Vineri]

The point is the game didn't die because of you quitting it or because of the reason you stated. Have a cookie, you aren't special.

The only one saying anything about WoW dying, is yourself. I suppose you are attempting to instigate something.

It's being snuffed now.

[Kyanion]

The only one saying anything about WoW dying, is yourself. I suppose you are attempting to instigate something.

It's being snuffed now.

We're talking about you saying Warhammer died because you couldn't take the scenic route on a flight. I said nothing about WoW dying. Nice try though. Lol just because you claim you snuffed anything does not mean that happened either.

[A dot Ham]

I agree that's true, it's a better version than what we actually played back then so yea, it's doesn't answer the question of what made vanilla better. But for me I prefer to play vanilla this way, it's kinda comforting that the class I'm playing isn't at risk of a sudden overhaul, an issue which have kept me from truly enjoying and attaching myself to any character for the last couple of years in the retail version of the game. I played a shadow priest in WOD and loved it for example, and then they overhauled the whole thing into something I didn't like so I had to switch mains, and it has been like this for every expansion since Wrath.

I can definitely sympathize and commiserate. As I regularly go through that experience. Its really unfortunate that there is the possibility that this can happen mid xpac too.

I think about warlocks and shamans. My brother shares the same experience with his Ret (not necessarily in playstyle because he's okay with change and adapts really well) but the performance disparity from patch to patch, xpac to xpac. I think we both would herald WotLK as the glory days for each class/spec... not vanilla.

One has to admit though, that at some point, the novelty would/does wear off. Even Nostralius had long term plans of opening up BC and other xpacs along the way. Beyond experiencing relevant content when it is/was relevant. It doesn't offer much else from live.

I was never impressed with lore in vanilla. It wasn't really until WotLK that the story seemed to progress in Azeroth. Without change, we would never have had DKs, Monks, or DHs. We would have been stuck in stupid things like "raid spec". If you played a hybrid class, you healed in raid... period.

I can definitely understand the nostalgia... like I said I remember my glass cannon specs quite fondly. But I don't think it was good design, and I definitely disagree that the game was "better".

[Nightstalker]

It was new, just like this argument.

[Akka]

People from Vanilla time complaining now were younger, less responsabilities and they linked this feeling with a discovery of a brand new game back then, Vanilla WoW, they think they'll get that back if they can play Vanilla again.

I think the fundamental defect of the anti-Classic crowd is their total and utter unability to see past their own self.
There are the people who think that because they like something more, it's "objectively better" and as such people who don't share their opinion must have clouded judgement and as such "nostalgia", and there are those, like this one, who think that because he was younger and without responsabilities (college ? Highschool ? No family) then everyone else was.
Newsflash : the world didn't start either with you or WoW, and there was a ton of 30s people with jobs, families and the like by then.

That's bullshit, bosses are not "tuned around ppl having 54 traits", they are tuned around certain amount of damage. If you can pull 800k DPS with 1 trait - good for you (which is impossible), but if you can't - here your option, farm AP and get more traints into your weapon.

So you just said "no you don't need a certain number of traits, you just need a certain DPS, which you can only reach with a certain number of traits" ?

[Dadwen]

This is only my personal opinion but I think it's because the class designers were not morons.
(not about balance but feel of the classes).

[Eleccybubb]

This is only my personal opinion but I think it's because the class designers were not morons.
(not about balance but feel of the classes).

I know I use this one a lot but SV hunter would like a word with you. . Lacerate was a trash talent. Hell nobody ever fully invested into that tree even after they changed it.

[Dadwen]

I know I use this one a lot but SV hunter would like a word with you. . Lacerate was a trash talent. Hell nobody ever fully invested into that tree even after they changed it.

not saying Class design was not better at other parts in WOW history, but since WOD IMO it went to hell in a hand basket.

*the Current SV (Legion) changes is what made me quit wow all-together.

[aevitas]

I'm doing some research and I'd like to hear your opinions guys and gals

I think Vanilla was only good because it was new. You really had to explore.

There was no wowhead or youtube giving you guides everywhere you looked, there were no quest arrows or markers on your map. Sure we had thottbot and alakhazam but those really had limited information. Addons were far less advanced aswell and raids were mechanically far easier than most normal dungeons are nowadays, it was just that shit hurt and healers couldn't spam heal you or top half a raid off in 5 seconds. Most had like 4-5 spells and they were using 2-3 different ranks of that to preserve mana.

In therms of QOL the game is far better now, in therms of exploration and the overal "wow!" effect vanilla was much better. You simply entered most raids without knowing what the hell to do, there was no PTR to test every raid like there is now. Which also made raiding harder, because some bosses were so bugged to shit it was laughable (C'thun's laser beaming you to pieces before even having entered the room for example).

On top of that you really got to know most people on your realm if you played a lot, I used to PvP like a mad-man (rank 12, raided till mid naxx so I played..too much really) and was at a point where I could recognise what pug I was up against in PvP by seeing 2 or 3 names.

There was more respect to be honest, people now care less because you can change your name/transfer away. The community really is gone.

No flying at all, guess we have the same now but you couldn't just walk through 20 enemies like you can now if you have 850 ilvl.

On the bright side, there is far more to do and some of the biggest flaws were removed. Fire mages not being able to damage ragnaros for example, fire/nature/shadow/frost resistance gear AND potions. Farming that took me 2 to 3 hours PER (6h) raiding night, because money wasn't farted your way for every move you made either. Alliance and Horde was truely different with paladins being alliance only and shaman being horde only, I think alliance had it easier because paladins were sick flash of light spamhealers for tanks.

All in all, my best memories were from vanilla/bc. Mostly because stuff was new and exciting, I definitely cared a lot about my character while I can delete some of them right away now. If the game was still similair now I'd have left long ago, because the time commitment was far too huge. Epics were truely epic, if I walked around with my Tier 2 Wrath set (later on some Dreadnaught) I sometimes felt like Michael Jackson walking into a supermarket.

Talent trees and general abilities were a mess really. Fucking entire trees of nothing but useless and boring stuff, with just 2-3 abilities there. The road to those abilities was really un-interesting. Respec required which started at 1g and went up to 50g per respec if you'd want to play fury instead of arms for a day.

In short, fuck the farming but I miss the mystery.

[Coffeexbean]

All blizzard has to do is implement pristine servers+ modern content = old school wow feeling before dragon soul patch. Thats when the game forever changed for the worst

[Eleccybubb]

All blizzard has to do is implement pristine servers+ modern content = old school wow feeling before dragon soul patch. Thats when the game forever changed for the worst

Well considering how negatively received Pristine servers was no they really don't. It's not what people are asking for. They want official Legacy Servers. Not some shitty compromise of modern WoW with older mechanics/systems. This sounds even worse than a standard pristine server.

[Coffeexbean]

Well considering how negatively received Pristine servers was no they really don't. It's not what people are asking for. They want official Legacy Servers. Not some shitty compromise of modern WoW with older mechanics/systems. This sounds even worse than a standard pristine server.

I dont see why we cant have both lol. Legacy servers dont have anything to do with introducing a new type of server like pvp, rppvp. If you want to play lame fast paced wow dont play on a pristine server?

[Eleccybubb]

I dont see why we cant have both lol. Legacy servers dont have anything to do with introducing a new type of server like pvp, rppvp. If you want to play lame fast paced wow dont play on a pristine server?

And again Pristine Servers were pisspoorly received as they were intended as an attempt to quell the Legacy crowd. It's not what they want. Either do Legacy or don't. Pristine is just a shitty compromise. Feel free to introduce Pristine and Legacy. See which one gets the most players. This thread has nothing to do with Pristine either it's to do with Classic so why you brought Pristine servers into a classic thread is beyond me since it has nothing to do with wanting classic servers.

Also when Blizzard presented a brief and initial idea of Pristine what they said was that it would be Modern WoW with XP Pots and Heirlooms disabled. Basically it would be a more time consuming live server. Which makes no sense considering it's already piss easy to level without them. I've done 1-110 without Heirlooms. No difficulty whatsoever just a time consuming process.

[Coffeexbean]

And again Pristine Servers were pisspoorly received as they were intended to attempt to quell the Legacy crowd. It's not what they want. Either do Legacy or don't. Pristine is just a shitty compromise. Feel free to introduce Pristine and Legacy. See which one gets the most players. This thread has nothing to do with Pristine either it's to do with Classic.

Pristine and Legacy are not the same thing. Pristine is a type of server that will continue to have new content on it and a way to experience wow with all the glory of a community. Legacy is playing the first few games. I don't care what those players want I am only stating what I want and why. I don't see it as a have either or.. you can have both and enjoy the one the want and ignore the other.. This thread has to do with what made classic wow better than current and I gave my opinion on that and how I could make the current game more like it used to be............. anything else not make sense to you or that you want to try and argue about lol. Takes a special kind of stupid to argue this. You are like those people who yell all lives matter when someone says black lives matter.

[Eleccybubb]

Pristine and Legacy are not the same thing. Pristine is a type of server that will continue to have new content on it and a way to experience wow with all the glory of a community. Legacy is playing the first few games. I don't care what those players want I am only stating what I want and why. I don't see it as a have either or.. you can have both and enjoy the one the want and ignore the other.. This thread has to do with what made classic wow better than current and I gave my opinion on that and how I could make the current game more like it used to be............. anything else not make sense to you or that you want to try and argue about lol. Takes a special kind of stupid to argue this. You are like those people who yell all lives matter when someone says black lives matter.

Ok and what does Pristine have to do with Classic? Pristine is a shitty alternative that was negatively received. Again let me know what it has to do with classic since the concept related to classic in no way.

Also no. Blizzard said in an initial brainstorm that Pristine would be CURRENT WOW with features such as XP Pots and Heirlooms and CRZ disabled. They mentioned nothing of difficulty. You chose to bring that in as an opinion of what it could be. Making leveling a pain in the ass time consuming chore would not make WoW how it used to be which would be the intent of Pristone. Pristine would have the modern talent system, the modern QoL changes, possibly LFD/LFR disabled. That is the kind of thing they brainstormed. Not a modern server with classic features.

Don't think I ever said you couldn't have both either but good job putting words in my mouth there. I mean go back through my discussion with you and feel free to find where I said "you cannot have Pristine". I said it was negatively received by a specific crowd. I also said introduce both. See which one has the most players after a month.

Also if all you have are insults towards me I don't see any point in continuing with you. Especially when you bring up a silly comparison like "black lives matter". Feel free to PM me when you stop making comparisons such as this.

[Charge me Doctor]

So you just said "no you don't need a certain number of traits, you just need a certain DPS, which you can only reach with a certain number of traits" ?

You can't do 800k in normal circumstances without 54 traits, but you don't need to. You raid need to meet DPS requirements, it's not about all players doing 800k, it's about raid doing 1,22B damage to Krosus (which is easily doable even with people without 54 traids), not about you doing l33t d33ps