What's Next Speculation (Star Augur Fight)

[Shinrael]

That is the unknown factor. If Blizzard is smart, they'll eventually use said concepts but Blizzard doesn't always use small details like that and use it later on in the future. It could be just a simple planet that was just born to be cold and frozen with no life on it. Now that sounds boring mind you but if it was me, I'd give it a reason.

It is boring. That's why I speculated about there actually being a culprit and that someone being our next major enemy.

The way I've always liked to look at it is that that the Lich King can theoretically become super strong, because his strength grows with every soul consumed by Frostmourne (or something like it). Feed Bolvar enough souls and he'll one day rival Sargeras. This is not even very far-fetched considering that the Affliction Warlock artifact weapon is a soul stealing weapon like Frostmourne and the ingame lore says that Sargeras fears the weapon due to its theoretical potential.

So the frozen world could very well be a possible future in which neither Azeroth, the Legion nor the Void lords have been victorious, but instead Death, as in the Scourge. As seen in Icecrown the Undead are completely impervious to the Void's corrupting influence as there is no mind to warp, and the Legion and Azeroth could both be defeated through convential means. What if in a twist of fate we win against the Void by all becoming Undead?

But that planet isn't Azeroth. The three worlds we were shown are both present in our universe in the way they were shown to us (it wasn't a glimpse of the future, but of the present). Azeroth isn't frozen, which means that frozen planet is a different world. So it's not the Lich King. It's either someone we don't know, or it's no one - just a natural process (like the guy above said).

[Verdugo]

It is boring. That's why I speculated about there actually being a culprit and that someone being our next major enemy.

Not everything needs to be because of some ancient evil.

[Deleted]

Cant believe you forgot about the most powerfull frost mage of our time, going rogue at the beginning of this very expansion, and we know nothing of her businesses now.

Augur shows realities to come, not things that has happened.

Dreadlord jaina out of the house, incoming Frozen Lich Queen Jaina.

[Deleted]

O.o I like this idea. Well, that's obviously not Azeroth, but another world, but if it actually is a frozen titan world soul, it would be so cool.



Our planet is just a planet... but... wait, oh, wait, it is not! There is a titan soul right inside of it! Wow. Have some more imagination, this is a fantasy game. If it is just another frozen planet because the space is cold, then that's cool and all, but why can't we speculate about the possibilities of it not being such?

(All punrights reserved.)

why speculate?

The old gold planet is presumably just one of thousands of planets on which an old gold landed and won, nothing special.
The fel planet is presumably just one of thousands of planets which the legion invaded and destroyed, nothing special.

So why would the ice planet be special?

And if the ice planet is special, should we also start wondering why other common planet tropes are special? Lava planet, Gas giants, Jungle planet, barren planets, desert planets, etc?

The furthest i'd speculate is it's a world where the elements are out of balance and the water elementals are dominant by a lot for some reason. no reason to assume there is some cosmic enemy behind it.

[Zoibert the Bear]

O.o I like this idea. Well, that's obviously not Azeroth, but another world, but if it actually is a frozen titan world soul, it would be so cool.



Our planet is just a planet... but... wait, oh, wait, it is not! There is a titan soul right inside of it! Wow. Have some more imagination, this is a fantasy game. If it is just another frozen planet because the space is cold, then that's cool and all, but why can't we speculate about the possibilities of it not being such?

(All punrights reserved.)

Hey, keep it chill man, no need to heat up the discussion.

OT: I love this fight, it really does put focus on how facing the Void is an inevitable fate at this moment. I'm also curious about the frozen planet. It would be awesome that it holds a world soul in some kind of cryogenesis within. A world soul called Elsa.

[Evilmoo]

What my idea is, these are all azeroth BUT under different threats, i.e frozen by Lich king's chill - we survived that, destroyed by fel of the burning legion - in process and under the tentacles of the void Gods- to come.
First two might even be a setup to prepare us for arrival of Void Gods.
Wotlk - we defeated yoggsaron and found out that there are no more titan watchers to watch over the world's integrity, we even forged a "ok" signal for "them".

Then we succesfully got rid of Aspect dragons
We are going to lose potential last line of defense as Khadgar on argus.
We are stripping us from defenses and it is just a buildup for unavoidable arrival of our new void overlords.

[Shinrael]

Not everything needs to be because of some ancient evil.

That is absolutely true. But it's 50:50. It's all up to Blizzard. There is nothing to speculate about the 50% where it's just a natural process so I speculate about the 50% where it is some "ancient evil" (actually my theory is about a NEW evil).

Cant believe you forgot about the most powerfull frost mage of our time, going rogue at the beginning of this very expansion, and we know nothing of her businesses now.

Augur shows realities to come, not things that has happened.

Dreadlord jaina out of the house, incoming Frozen Lich Queen Jaina.

How could I forget Dreadlord Jaina xD

Well technically if he is observing the universe in the classical sense they are images of the past since they may well be light years away

As for the frozen planet as a concept, it's the way you'd depict a dead, lifeless planet.

I agree though, the planets Augur shows us are not Azeroth. He is an astronomer and he is simply showing us different things he has seen across the universe

Yeah, I prefer to believe they already "happened" and aren't future/potential versions of Azeroth.

why speculate?

The old gold planet is presumably just one of thousands of planets on which an old gold landed and won, nothing special.
The fel planet is presumably just one of thousands of planets which the legion invaded and destroyed, nothing special.

So why would the ice planet be special?

And if the ice planet is special, should we also start wondering why other common planet tropes are special? Lava planet, Gas giants, Jungle planet, barren planets, desert planets, etc?

The furthest i'd speculate is it's a world where the elements are out of balance and the water elementals are dominant by a lot for some reason. no reason to assume there is some cosmic enemy behind it.

Wait, why the hell not? It's interesting, gives me food for thought, brainstorming and just thinking in general is fun. I love speculating stuff for the stories I am interested in.

The old god planet was consumed by the Old Gods. Nothing special.
The fel planet was destroyed by the Burning Legion. Nothing special.
The frozen planet was frozen by someone. Nothing special.

Indeed. None of those planets are special.
The Old Gods are special. They are our enemy, a powerful one at that. We see their influence in every expansion.
The Burning Legion is also special. They are our enemy, a powerful one at that. We see their influence in every expansion.
But what about the enemy who froze that planet? Do you get it? Not the planet is important, it's the villain behind it's state. Because we were shown 3 planets, all destroyed in one sense or another. 2 of them were destroyed by our 2 greatest enemies. The culprit behind the third one's state is unknown. And since the other 2 culprits were quite major, then the third one must be major too, imo. But we don't know of such force, which means a yet to be announced enemy. Which is exciting because the variety of our enemies is growing and Blizzard is trying to expand the game in different ways. That is what I am speculating about. Who is it? Yes, we can't know. Yes, there is no need to speculate. No, there is no reason not to do so if I want to, though.

Hey, keep it chill man, no need to heat up the discussion.

OT: I love this fight, it really does put focus on how facing the Void is an inevitable fate at this moment. I'm also curious about the frozen planet. It would be awesome that it holds a world soul in some kind of cryogenesis within. A world soul called Elsa.

What my idea is, these are all azeroth BUT under different threats, i.e frozen by Lich king's chill - we survived that, destroyed by fel of the burning legion - in process and under the tentacles of the void Gods- to come.
First two might even be a setup to prepare us for arrival of Void Gods.
Wotlk - we defeated yoggsaron and found out that there are no more titan watchers to watch over the world's integrity, we even forged a "ok" signal for "them".

Then we succesfully got rid of Aspect dragons
We are going to lose potential last line of defense as Khadgar on argus.
We are stripping us from defenses and it is just a buildup for unavoidable arrival of our new void overlords.

But he said the one of the planets was near Azeroth (the frozen void which lies within the margin of Azeroth's skies). Which would indicate it is a different planet, in my opinion.
I'm actually not that into frozen stuff, I prefer green sceneries, but I like ice tundras more than fel-devastated planes, so I'd prefer a frost-using enemy over the Legion xD Point being, I'll be happy to get some new major enemy in the lore.

[Deleted]

Or maybe this planet is just too far from any sun and this is why it is frozen ?

[Evilmoo]

say Jaina does it so she can get rid of us and can go wipe out the Horde,

Ahaha, bring it on bitch!

as well as at least Velen and Illidan plus

Velen is already suicidal after his son's scenario so i see him going out in a bang, like dying to sargeras or something like that.

But he said the one of the planets was near Azeroth (the frozen void which lies within the margin of Azeroth's skies). Which would indicate it is a different planet, in my opinion.

Ah, i probably missed that quote, i was trying to link elisande's multi-timeline thing with augur, but meh.

[Cwimge]

It's just a dead, frozen world. One that never got given life or that the legion burnt long enough ago to freeze over in the void. You'e fishing for meaning where none exists

[Shinrael]

Or maybe this planet is just too far from any sun and this is why it is frozen ?

It could simply be a planet on the same solar system just far enough to be frozen. If mars had more water it would probably look something like that after all.

It's just a dead, frozen world. One that never got given life or that the legion burnt long enough ago to freeze over in the void. You'e fishing for meaning where none exists

Why, why, why, why, why does everything have to be "just" or "simply"? Whatever happened to your imagination? And before the 23rd guy posts the exact same boring comment, can't you read the answers already in the thread? Blizzard get's to decide if the planet froze naturally or someone froze it. 50:50. If it froze naturally... that's it. That story chapter is over (if you can even call that a chapter). There is nothing to discuss there. Nothing of interest to anyone. It's "just" a "simple" lifeless boring planet. Nothing else. But there are another 50% that hold potential for an interesting story. So why must we blindly throw that away? Even if it doesn't happen, why can't we just speculate for fun? This thread is for people who want to speculate, not for the boring 50%.

[Gamer8585]

Honestly I think people are reading waaaay to much into that "frozen" world. Look, space is very cold, lots of planets are essentially iceballs. Etraeus was trying to make a point: "See for yourself the cruel, frozen void that lies beyond the margin of Azeroth's skies!" He's saying that the rest of the universe is inherently meaningless, its all just cold and dark and probably not worth saving.

He has accepted Elisande's logic that the Legion is powerful and its better to join them than be crushed by them:
"The Burning Legion. Slayers of whole worlds. Could we hope to resist? Can you?!"

Especially in light of the void which will devour all of reality and are a bajillion times worse than the Legion:
"Is that not enough? Must I show you the true horror of our reality?
Very well... witness what I have seen and TREMBLE!
Avatars of non-existence... knowing nothing but hunger.
These are the beings who will devour the future you so futilely fight to protect!"

So, yeah that first world was just an illustration of his existential crisis, I don't really think it points to a new enemy (other than a cold and uncaring universe).

[Verdugo]

Why, why, why, why, why does everything have to be "just" or "simply"?

And why the fuck does everything need to be a Diabolus ex Machina to explain everything. Sometimes stuff happens not because of malice of certain omnipotent beings but because the universe works that way. The end.

[Shinrael]

Occam's razor?

Look if it was my fantasy campaign it could have been any number of fantastic explanations. I have had my players visit planets that were essentially multiple continental plates at different orbits around an inner sun or hollow worlds or cupped hemispheres linked by massive mountain ranges. I have more than enough imagination. WoW doesn't.

Don't get the reference, but well... I can't help it but hope for something cool.

Honestly I think people are reading waaaay to much into that "frozen" world. Look, space is very cold, lots of planets are essentially iceballs. Etraeus was trying to make a point: "See for yourself the cruel, frozen void that lies beyond the margin of Azeroth's skies!" He's saying that the rest of the universe is inherently meaningless, its all just cold and dark and probably not worth saving.

He has accepted Elisande's logic that the Legion is powerful and its better to join them than be crushed by them:
"The Burning Legion. Slayers of whole worlds. Could we hope to resist? Can you?!"

Especially in light of the void which will devour all of reality and are a bajillion times worse than the Legion:
"Is that not enough? Must I show you the true horror of our reality?
Very well... witness what I have seen and TREMBLE!
Avatars of non-existence... knowing nothing but hunger.
These are the beings who will devour the future you so futilely fight to protect!"

So, yeah that first world was just an illustration of his existential crisis, I don't really think it points to a new enemy (other than a cold and uncaring universe).

True. Your point makes a lot of sense. I still hope that even if it is a totally unrelated one, we do get some new major enemy.

And why the fuck does everything need to be a Diabolus ex Machina to explain everything. Sometimes stuff happens not because of malice of certain omnipotent beings but because the universe works that way. The end.

Yeah but this stuff was pointed in our faces. Makes some individuals wonder about the potential possibilities. Now if you expressed your opinion as well as the guy above, I wouldn't have much to say, but just downright rejecting my speculation without any arguments that make sense... it's pretty much a provocation.

[Aucald]

Occam's razor?

Look if it was my fantasy campaign it could have been any number of fantastic explanations. I have had my players visit planets that were essentially multiple continental plates at different orbits around an inner sun or hollow worlds or cupped hemispheres linked by massive mountain ranges. I have more than enough imagination. WoW doesn't.

I can see this as wielding Occam's Razor in a perfunctory or even a biased fashion - in this instance, forgetting that the Warcraft universe is in a fantasy setting where incarnate spirits, otherworldly powers, and natural magic is the norm as opposed to the exception. While the planet could simply be frozen and dead as a matter of course, there is likely a reason why the Star Augur focuses on it specifically instead of any other inert worlds to exposed the emptiness of space (or why he simply doesn't focus on an expanse of "dead" space where there is no matter at all). This world could be frozen due to some kind of Elemental catastrophe of the same kind that might've struck primordial Draenor had Aggramar not interfered with the Sporemounds' natural evolution. It could've been frozen due to an Arcane or mystical catastrophe provoked by its former denizens. There are many possible reasons that might be even more likely than a random, dead world that still underscore Etraeus' themes of nihilism and hopelessness in the universe.

It's also noteworthy that Star Augur Etraeus is drawing upon the essence of these three worlds to empower himself during your encounter with him - not something would expect of dead and inert world. I think it more likely that *something* happened to this frozen world to make it a power source for magical Frost essence - something that underscores the fatalistic themes that he's employing.

[Cwimge]

Why, why, why, why, why does everything have to be "just" or "simply"? Whatever happened to your imagination? And before the 23rd guy posts the exact same boring comment, can't you read the answers already in the thread? Blizzard get's to decide if the planet froze naturally or someone froze it. 50:50. If it froze naturally... that's it. That story chapter is over (if you can even call that a chapter). There is nothing to discuss there. Nothing of interest to anyone. It's "just" a "simple" lifeless boring planet. Nothing else. But there are another 50% that hold potential for an interesting story. So why must we blindly throw that away? Even if it doesn't happen, why can't we just speculate for fun? This thread is for people who want to speculate, not for the boring 50%.

why does everything not expressly explained need to be some fantastic mystery? Often things are exactly what they look like

[Shinrael]

I can see this as wielding Occam's Razor in a perfunctory or even a biased fashion - in this instance, forgetting that the Warcraft universe is in a fantasy setting where incarnate spirits, otherworldly powers, and natural magic is the norm as opposed to the exception. While the planet could simply be frozen and dead as a matter of course, there is likely a reason why the Star Augur focuses on it specifically instead of any other inert worlds to exposed the emptiness of space (or why he simply doesn't focus on an expanse of "dead" space where there is no matter at all). This world could be frozen due to some kind of Elemental catastrophe of the same kind that might've struck primordial Draenor had Aggramar not interfered with the Sporemounds' natural evolution. It could've been frozen due to an Arcane or mystical catastrophe provoked by its former denizens. There are many possible reasons that might be even more likely than a random, dead world that still underscore Etraeus' themes of nihilism and hopelessness in the universe.

It's also noteworthy that Star Augur Etraeus is drawing upon the essence of these three worlds to empower himself during your encounter with him - not something would expect of dead and inert world. I think it more likely that *something* happened to this frozen world to make it a power source for magical Frost essence - something that underscores the fatalistic themes that he's employing.

why does everything not expressly explained need to be some fantastic mystery? Often things are exactly what they look like

1. My problem is that people just refuse to give speculation a chance. I already said it a few times but here I go again: it's all up to Blizzard. It's 50:50. There is nothing to discuss about the event in which it's just a natural process but there are so many possibilities if it's the other 50%. And there's lots to discuss. That is why you see no threads "[tinfoilhat]Speculation - The planet Star Augur showed us froze because space is cold. [/tinfoilhat]". Because there is nothing to speculate about it. But there is lots to speculate about if it was frozen by someone.
2. Speculation is fun. Pondering at the unknown is fun.
3. As the guy quoted above says, there are plenty of reasons/hints that can provoke people to speculate it is some fantastic mystery.
4. Ye, it is exactly a frozen planet. That's what it looks like and that's what it really is. But that doesn't tell us anything about how it got frozen.

[steelballfc]

The way I've always liked to look at it is that that the Lich King can theoretically become super strong, because his strength grows with every soul consumed by Frostmourne (or something like it). Feed Bolvar enough souls and he'll one day rival Sargeras.?

no
just no