UK will have to give up all EU perks after Brexit, François Hollande warns

[Deleted]

Never called it punishment. I'm happy to leave the single market.

Fine. I often get the feeling many Brexiteers wanna leave EU and still keep perks.

I dont think this 60b bill has any practice use. It might be some negotistion tactics because of May's Brexit plan.

Never forget that there are parts in the EU that are totally fine if the UK is treated like NonEu countries.

One thing i competely hate is that both sides dont want to guarantee a right to stay. New migration might be up to discussion, but never ever should anyone be afraid of having to leave because of Brexit alone.

[Underverse]

So "strength in numbers" in laymans terms?

I don't claim to be an expert in European politics, but it seems to act beyond that, propping up member nations (such a Greece) and other people who can't sustainably afford to be part of it, which is nothing against Greece but forcing its other policies such as single currency etc. which messes up more than it helps seems morally wrong?

There is certainly some short term pain in some areas. But there will be gains in the long term. Greece won't always be an economic turd, for example. And once they're fine, they'll have a lot to offer.

Single currency is probably the best idea.

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The EU is just karma for all the colonization that the UK has done. Once they realized the shit show they got into, they got out. Good call on the people of the UK. It sucks having to obey a central power that you have little to no input.

The EU is pretty much the fourth reich. Anyone that doesn't see that is just a complete imbecile.

You sound salty. Want to back up any of your claims or are you just here to spew shit?

[Linkedblade]

Porous borders, trade of people and ideas, an extremely strong buffer against internal wars, a unified front (militarily and economically) against external powers like Russia.

Oh man the inconvenience of showing your passport at a border. The Internet is much better suited for the trade of people and ideas. A strong buffer? Are you kidding? Who really is a military power in the EU? France? Germany? You've got to be kidding.

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There is certainly some short term pain in some areas. But there will be gains in the long term. Greece won't always be an economic turd, for example. And once they're fine, they'll have a lot to offer.

Single currency is probably the best idea.

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You sound salty. Want to back up any of your claims or are you just here to spew shit?

I think the result of the Brexit poll in the UK is evidence enough that the EU and all it's mandates are a complete crock of shit.

[Underverse]

Oh man the inconvenience of showing your passport at a border. The Internet is much better suited for the trade of people and ideas. A strong buffer? Are you kidding? Who really is a military power in the EU? France? Germany? You've got to be kidding.

It's not just about 'showing your passport'. Living and working in neighboring countries is also much easier under the EU. And last I checked, you couldn't trade people over the internet.

And how is the EU not a buffer against internal wars? I'm not kidding. You can't just ask me if I'm kidding and pretend that that's somehow a counterargument.

[Deleted]

There is certainly some short term pain in some areas. But there will be gains in the long term. Greece won't always be an economic turd, for example. And once they're fine, they'll have a lot to offer.

Single currency is probably the best idea.

It's not just about short term pain though is it, some people in the EU (namely Germany/France) clearly have a better deal of it than us other nations within the EU. It doesn't seem like something that'll ever fit Britain as a country since we're one of the richest nations in the world and we don't get as much benefit as the other nations

[Acidbaron]

So "strength in numbers" in laymans terms?

I don't claim to be an expert in European politics, but it seems to act beyond that, propping up member nations (such a Greece) and other people who can't sustainably afford to be part of it, which is nothing against Greece but forcing its other policies such as single currency etc. which messes up more than it helps seems morally wrong?

To understand the EU attitude towards Greece, you need to understand how Greece entered the EU (falsified numbers), how they failed to meet certain checks, how their government is highly corrupted on several levels (paying taxes is somewhat optional), how a large part of the population is employed by the state (not sustainable), how the people that get elected generally make a fool of themselves at the talks, demanding silly things (like demanding more money from Germany for WW2 as a plan to pay back loans) and making even more humorous threats like "We'll ask Russia for aid!" and now imagine this happening several times over.

Greece biggest economic factor is tourism i believe and they fucked that up all by themselves real good. The EU had no hand in this.

I am obviously pro-Europe but i do know that the Euro currency was not a good deal for most due to how the economies differ between north and south.

Also Greece accepted the Euro, member states had to accept it i believe not sure if it was forced on them but again even if that is the case, you have to ignore a whole lot of things going wrong and put on blinders to simply say it was all the fault of a single currency, it wasn't and the sooner greece accepts this the sooner a solution can come from within greece for greece. Externally talks have been going on for a while to get rid of nation bonds and make an EU bond what could help the southern nations quite a bit.

[Underverse]

I think the result of the Brexit poll in the UK is evidence enough that the EU and all it's mandates are a complete crock of shit.

Really? You're going to cite popular opinion as evidence that the EU and all of it's mandates are utterly useless and wasteful?

In general, people don't know jack shit about these kinds of things, and you're proving it.

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It's not just about short term pain though is it, some people in the EU (namely Germany/France) clearly have a better deal of it than us other nations within the EU. It doesn't seem like something that'll ever fit Britain as a country since we're one of the richest nations in the world and we don't get as much benefit as the other nations

How is the deal better for them? List specific tenets and policies that favor these countries, and demonstrate that there are no alternative benefits for other countries.

Just in terms of economics, it seems like your statement is not entirely accurate:

The CBI estimates that the net benefit of EU membership is worth 4-5% of GDP to the UK, or £62bn-£78bn per year. In 2014, the ONS reported that the EU, which is the world's biggest economy, accounted for 44.6 per cent of all UK exports of goods and services, and 53.2 per cent of the UK's imports of goods and services.

[ati87]

What utter bollocks. The Brexit side was called racist because everybody has been using the word racist to shut down debate in the UK for years. We went for about a decade of Labour Government where any attempt to discuss immigration led to cries of racism.

I ignore any such claims now unless it is directed at specific instances of proven racism, not applied generally.

Oh come on dude the ''UKIP breaking point'' poster, the picture is the god dam crap used by the Nazi's to attack jews back in the day, only difference is the attacking target and the colour of the photo.

https://twitter.com/scott_isbell/sta...929216/photo/1

Or how about this crap, this is nothing but fear warmongering aimed at towards specific ethnic groups.

EU loophole could see 77 MILLION Turks head to Britain, warn Farage and Johnson

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/661...sa-free-travel

If you want I could go back to the Brexit topic probably and look for the things said about Polish people? or maybe faster if you also googled the "'Eternal Jew'' and see how many of the theme's from that movie showed up during the the whole Brexit discussion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Et...rasitic_people


So get of the PC wagon because this crap is just racist and everything was used by the Brexit side.

[Acidbaron]

It's not just about short term pain though is it, some people in the EU (namely Germany/France) clearly have a better deal of it than us other nations within the EU. It doesn't seem like something that'll ever fit Britain as a country since we're one of the richest nations in the world and we don't get as much benefit as the other nations

If you are going to say you do not have a good deal as a brit in the EU, you deserve a few good slaps since that nation by far has the most received the most special treatment, perhaps even of all nations combined.

[Deleted]

Oh god don't remind the poor remainers about privacy. Over the past few years EU intervention has been all that's saved your internet privacy in the UK.

Yeah many people dont know that many EU laws they dont like were forced by UK into the EU. The UK had a lot of power in EU.

[Acidbaron]

Oh god don't remind the poor remainers about privacy. Over the past few years EU intervention has been all that's saved your internet privacy in the UK.

Yup, how facebook and such cannot use your pictures for advertisement in the EU whenever they please, what they are allowed to do elsewhere to name just one thing.

I think the EU would do well to really boot up an informative campaign, rather then ignoring the anti-folk and letting them dominate the debate. It's all good to be skeptical and question things the EU does, that is healthy. But some of the things people say and believe, i mean come on. I can get Americans having the wrong impression of it but if you reside within the EU you should have a better understanding what it does for you.

[Deleted]

If you are going to say you do not have a good deal as a brit in the EU, you deserve a few good slaps since that nation by far has the most received the most special treatment, perhaps even of all nations combined.

Because realistically we're an economic power that spends more on the EU (through trade to other European countries and imports/exports not even talking about Greece loans here or the money we put into the EU in general) than we'll ever need from the EU, we don't -need- the EU, we're much better suited as a customer of the EU than an actual member, but given how the EU is acting and even as Pro EU you must admit they're acting like children we're probably better off getting our trade elsewhere.

[Linkedblade]

It's not just about 'showing your passport'. Living and working in neighboring countries is also much easier under the EU. And last I checked, you couldn't trade people over the internet.

And how is the EU not a buffer against internal wars? I'm not kidding. You can't just ask me if I'm kidding and pretend that that's somehow a counterargument.

I still don't see how showing an ID is an inconvenience. You can apply for visas online.

I didn't mean against internal wars. Against Russia, honestly who would be the bulwark for such an invasion?

[Kalis]

Oh come on dude the ''UKIP breaking point'' poster, the picture is the god dam crap used by the Nazi's to attack jews back in the day, only difference is the attacking target and the colour of the photo.

https://twitter.com/scott_isbell/sta...929216/photo/1

Or how about this crap, this is nothing but fear warmongering aimed at towards specific ethnic groups.



http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/661...sa-free-travel

If you want I could go back to the Brexit topic probably and look for the things said about Polish people? or maybe faster if you also googled the "'Eternal Jew'' and see how many of the theme's from that movie showed up during the the whole Brexit discussion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Et...rasitic_people


So get of the PC wagon because this crap is just racist and everything was used by the Brexit side.

Yeah, UKIP are just like the Nazis.

Someone needs to check if Farage is building a concentration camp in his back garden.

Or you could get a grip.

[Linkedblade]

Really? You're going to cite popular opinion as evidence that the EU and all of it's mandates are utterly useless and wasteful?

In general, people don't know jack shit about these kinds of things, and you're proving it.

No government should be able to tell your government what to do without the consent of the governed. Anyone or any group that does is entirely deplorable. If the nation opposes it, I think it's in the best interest of the people to listen to them. You know to save from violence.

[Acidbaron]

Because realistically we're an economic power that spends more on the EU (through trade to other European countries and imports/exports not even talking about Greece loans here or the money we put into the EU in general) than we'll ever need from the EU, we don't -need- the EU, we're much better suited as a customer of the EU than an actual member, but given how the EU is acting and even as Pro EU you must admit they're acting like children we're probably better off getting our trade elsewhere.

The idea, that you can simply take your trade elsewhere shows me how little you understand how global economics work. You can't create markets of equal size just anywhere there are a lot of factors involved, not to mention first of gaining access to them. Since other nations can block your trade or add high tariffs.

As for you gaining not a lot from what you put in, i really don't know where people get this from. Must be an UKIP soundbyte, since that's just not true i think someone even pointed this out with numbers a page back.

The other thing is the reason you are an economic power is also part due to the EU, both parties strengthen each other, if you believe you're better off economically on your own. honestly you're in for a rude awakening if it ever comes to that.

As for childish acts in EU parliament, the UK members who seat there take the crown on that level. As their opposition is often fueled with juvenile taunts and insults, what might be normal in UK politics to insult others, here it's not. Also mind giving a specific example of childish behavior since you seem to suggestion several things the EU is and does but you don't seem to bring forward specific examples.

[Linkedblade]

How is the deal better for them? List specific tenets and policies that favor these countries, and demonstrate that there are no alternative benefits for other countries.

Just in terms of economics, it seems like your statement is not entirely accurate:

I think Merkel being able to push her agendas without any form of representation or restraint is enough to say the UK and other nations are getting the shitty end of the stick.

[Suggs]

Dear Hollande;



















....Fuck Off!!
Regards Me.

[Underverse]

I still don't see how showing an ID is an inconvenience. You can apply for visas online.

I didn't mean against internal wars. Against Russia, honestly who would be the bulwark for such an invasion?

Again, I didn't argue that showing ID was inconvenient - that's just a small fraction of the benefit. It's the ability to legally live and work in neighboring countries without needing to apply through the many and disparate immigration procedures that each country has. It significantly reduces the amount of labor needed to move between countries (even on a non-permanent basis) and allows a greater breadth of access.

As for your second point, consider reading this.

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No government should be able to tell your government what to do without the consent of the governed. Anyone or any group that does is entirely deplorable. If the nation opposes it, I think it's in the best interest of the people to listen to them. You know to save from violence.

This is an artificial division. I could say the same thing about my government: the republicans shouldn't be able to tell the democrats what to do without the consent of those represented by the democrats!

But see, this is how politics work. No actually, this is how being part of a society works. You have to make some concessions. And in return, you get other benefits.

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Dear Hollande;



















....Fuck Off!!
Regards Me.

What a great counter.

[Deleted]

You're quite rude about us "dumb British"

Yes because the whole, EU used to be a trade treaty, nonsense annoys me - It never was thus, and every single brexiter talking here should read the relevant treaties that were enacted Before the UK joined.