Demonic demon hunter stat weight (mastery vs vers)

[Deleted]

Heyho,

just did a quick comparison between mastery and vers for 3323333.
I came out with mastery being slightly better in st than vers.

For this test I did a 5:00 min fight on the boss training dummy coming out with 542k dps (AMR sims my char at 528267k dps in a 5min fight. There seems something off with the settings)
I didn't use any buffs/pots/flask/bufffood nor heroism.

Can anyone look if I did my math wrong or not?


Edit: AMR sims the dps at 531466 DPS if I put every mastery point in vers. Thats 3k more than it sims with my current stats.

Edit 2: AMR had potions / flask and bufffood in, changed the values in this post.


Did I do my math wrong, or is there something wrong with AMR?

[Rorixis]

Here is my sim values w/demonic w/16% haste and 5500 mastery rating and 4 set for comparison

[Deleted]

I guess a couple of questions spring to mind. Do you actually have this gear swap choices in your bags... as in, are you testing Vers stacking 'on the off chance' it might be better, and if it turns out to be the case, you then have to go and grind the gear?

Second question is what legendaries are you using / do you have?

Final thing is to say, if you do have the gear in bags to swap this around, I would recommend you actually testing it on a dummy / boss fight yourself, that way you can get a feel for the stats. Simming is nice, but it doesn't factor in human errors / cock ups.

Just a thought - best of luck!

[Temp name]

Edit: AMR sims the dps at 554365 if I put every mastery point in vers.

So where does the information come from, that vers is better than mastery in demonic?

Download Simcraft and run your own character, or post your armory and let someone else do it for you. It prevents any mistakes, either in execution or maths on your/our part.

DH stat weight can chance A LOT based on your trinkets and legendaries, even more so for the standard CB build than Demonic, but still.

[Deleted]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte...nipidan/simple

I got raddons and sephuz (and didn't use stuns/interrupts/cc to proc the haste buff).
Sadly I miss anger of half giants :/

[Phob]

Mastery is better than vers in all builds. It takes too much vers to get 1%.

[Gylen]

Mastery is better than vers in all builds. It takes too much vers to get 1%.

Wrong. Sim it and you'll see. It all depends on your gear, but for me, Mastery is by far the worst stat.

[Phob]

Then you are simming wrong. Mastery is about 20% better than vers in all builds.

[sabot]

I have been simming my demon hunter since he was 840, and is 900 equipped now. Mastery has always been the worst of the four, with vers being the most valuable until crit slightly overtook it at about 880.

I am still sitting at a crit>vers=haste>mastery stat weight for the standard demonic build.

[Svisalith]

Wrong. Sim it and you'll see. It all depends on your gear, but for me, Mastery is by far the worst stat.

I'm high geared playing these styles a lot at the moment w/ raddons & AOTHG. Mastery and Crit come as the best stats for ST and the optimal stat shifts towards full or nearly full Mastery (>50%) as you get more targets.

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Selecting First Blood instead of Chaos Cleave dramatically drops the weight of mastery, especially for ST. This is because Blade Dance does not scale with Mastery at all while Chaos Strike/Chaos Cleave scales strongly with it. With a decent amount of Mastery you take Chaos Cleave for both ST and AOE so make sure you're not simming with First Blood unless your Mastery % is unusually low - if you are, keep in mind that the stat that is simming better right now is not neccesarily the best stat in full gear optimized specifically for the style.





Old War pots are losing to Prolonged Power even on single target. Nemesis can sometimes be below or around Momentum on 1 target(?) and loses to Momentum on 2+.

That should explain the comments above - being based 100% on ST damage while having these issues.
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300s +-20% ST^ SimDPS 699k. Crit sims 2.1% higher than Mastery for ST because i have more mastery than would be required to balance out ST (44-45% on this gear). It's set up that way because of scaling against different target counts.

3target cleave:
25.39 / 23.59 / 21.82 / 19.57
mastery vers crit haste


10target cleave:
122.65 / 118.30 / 114.37 / 39.46
mastery vers haste crit


Vers and Mastery are close on multi-target but that vers value is highly inflated because i have 45% mastery and only a few % vers. If it were higher then some mix of the stats would become optimal such as mastery heavy with some vers; It's not.

Crit is strong enough to justify mixing into your stats for ST and low target counts - pure Mastery will lose to a Mastery heavy mix of Mastery/Crit.

[Teddybird]

I am still sitting at a crit>vers=haste>mastery stat weight for the standard demonic build.

Had to swap to normal build on my offspec for mythic krosus, but up to that point this is what i was getting on simc also. Vers over took crit at 41% but by nothing, basicly equal.

[Gylen]

I'm high geared playing these styles a lot at the moment w/ raddons & AOTHG. Mastery and Crit come as the best stats for ST and the optimal stat shifts towards full or nearly full Mastery (>50%) as you get more targets.

-----

Selecting First Blood instead of Chaos Cleave dramatically drops the weight of mastery, especially for ST. This is because Blade Dance does not scale with Mastery at all while Chaos Strike/Chaos Cleave scales strongly with it. With a decent amount of Mastery you take Chaos Cleave for both ST and AOE so make sure you're not simming with First Blood unless your Mastery % is unusually low - if you are, keep in mind that the stat that is simming better right now is not neccesarily the best stat in full gear optimized specifically for the style.

Old War prepots are losing to Prolonged Power even on single target. Nemesis can sometimes be below or around Momentum on 1 target(?) and loses to Momentum on 2+.

That should explain the comments above - being based 100% on ST damage while having these issues.
-----



300s +-20% ST^ SimDPS 698k. Crit sims 2.1% higher than Mastery for ST because i have more mastery than would be required to balance out ST (44-45% on this gear). It's set up that way because of scaling against different target counts.

3target cleave:
25.39 / 23.59 / 21.82 / 19.57
mastery vers crit haste


10target cleave:
122.65 / 118.30 / 114.37 / 39.46
mastery vers haste crit


Vers and Mastery are close on multi-target but that vers value is highly inflated because i have 45% mastery and only a few % vers. If it were higher then some mix of the stats would become optimal such as mastery heavy with some vers; It's not.

Crit is strong enough to justify mixing into your stats for ST and low target counts - pure Mastery will lose to a Mastery heavy mix of Mastery/Crit.

I hadn't considered Chaos Cleave, but, you're basically saying that unless you use Chaos Cleave.. mastery is not that valuable?

Doesn't First Blood > Chaos Cleave by a significant amount? I guess I'll have to play around with it.

[Svisalith]

Doesn't First Blood > Chaos Cleave by a significant amount? I guess I'll have to play around with it.

Chaos Cleave beats First Blood on 3-3 single target by 15k DPS with my gear and wins on cleave/AOE by a mile - i added an ST sim into my post above. Mastery and chaos strike relics make it more valuable, lack of them makes it less.

unless you use Chaos Cleave.. mastery is not that valuable?

If you're in unsuitable gear and you can add 2000 of any stat then Vers may give you more than Mastery because you can't change stats enough to dig yourself out of the hole, you can just maximise your local situation. This mainly applies to ST - AOE likes Chaos Cleave more and so you'll find it especially easy to swap from first blood to CC and get a high mastery weight.

If you can select any gear that you want then Mastery&ChaosCleave is more optimal than Vers&FirstBlood.

It's also more fun to play, IMO - more chaos strikes means more souls, faster eyebeam/stun resets which plays especially well with Raddons.

[Deleted]

Thanks everyone!
I was really confused reading "vers is always better than mastery", "vers is better because of first blood, especially with many enemys as the damage increases" and stuff like that.
On the other hand, both my quick and detailed calculations resulted in either a draw or mastery beeing better both on st and multi target.

[Rotted]

Wrong. Sim it and you'll see. It all depends on your gear, but for me, Mastery is by far the worst stat.

Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he's right that Mastery is better than vers regardless the build. You're the first person I've come across that disagrees with that

[Deleted]

You should look in other threads hete on mmo, people everywhere who say vers is better for demonic than mastery. But then again, they probably are the same people who only play cs and tell that demonic does much less dps

[Gylen]

Honestly, I think everyone here is right. It just depends on your current gear, and (new to me) if you use Chaos Cleave instead of First Blood.

Overall, I'm not surprised that people might think Mastery is a good stat. It makes sense. The Crit/Mastery is king stat weights are plastered everywhere, mainly due to Demon blade's spec and not Demonic. And since you would eye beam more (chaos damage), it also seems more valuable.

After doing a bit of testing, it would appear that Mastery does in fact scale quite highly (even more so than crit!!!!) using Chaos Cleave. The only thing that sucks is Chaos Strike is your only fury spender lol. I guess you would never actually Blade Dance. (That's what Simcraft says anyway) Sounds like boring game play but I guess the more simple it is, the less you can screw up.

[Svisalith]

The Crit/Mastery is king stat weights are plastered everywhere, mainly due to Demon blade's spec and not Demonic.

Mastery is a lot better without Demon Blades - it's the king of 3-3 builds, especially when any cleave or AOE is involved. It's been straight up the best stat since the patch that made Mastery worth ~40% more on the 7.1.5 PTR

DBlades style places less emphasis on chaos damage so you take less mastery so you do less chaos damage and use chaos abilities less because of that - vicious cycle. DBlades also shines particularly on single target so there's little worry about stat weights against many targets, you'd just switch out to 3-3-1; most people sim and gear purely for ST.

[Gylen]

Mastery is made quite a bit less valuable when you run 2-2-2 which in turn makes you take less mastery which makes chaos damage spells less worth casting which makes mastery worse again, vicious cycle.

Mastery > Crit for Dbite (especially cleave/aoe), Crit > Mastery for DBlades (especially ST)

You've certainly given me something to think about, and it would appear it scales a bit better too. In addition to being better for ST AND AoE... seems like a win/win.

- - - Updated - - -

Mastery is a lot better without Demon Blades - it's the king of 3-3 builds, especially when any cleave or AOE is involved. It's been straight up the best stat since the patch that made Mastery worth ~40% more on the 7.1.5 PTR

DBlades style places less emphasis on chaos damage so you take less mastery so you do less chaos damage and use chaos abilities less because of that - vicious cycle. DBlades also shines particularly on single target so there's little worry about stat weights against many targets, you'd just switch out to 3-3-1; most people sim and gear purely for ST.

I'm a little confused. Can you clarify how mastery is better with or without Demon Blades? I thought the only talent that really made Mastery useful (outside of Chaos Cleaves, obviously) was Chaos Blades?

[Swol]

There is actually a very useful type of batch simulation on AMR you can do to answer these types of questions for your character. I did a run for @Shishar using his character's gear from the armory and the 332333 talent combo that he was talking about (with no consumables, 5 minute single target fight):
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simula...942a479cd40a37

In that report, I kept his secondary stat total at 24,000 (which his current gear had) and then randomly sampled 100 combinations of stats, allowing each secondary stat to vary from 2000 to 18000 in 2000 rating increments. The highest performing combinations all have a lot of Crit, obviously. Just scanning down the list, there is no clear winner with respect to mastery/versatilty.

This type of report is useful because it shows the reality of gearing in WoW: no strict stat priority prevails in most cases. You can see that there is a set up with 12k crit, 2k haste, 6k mastery, and 4k vers that does the same damage as a setup with 10k crit, 10k haste, 2k mastery, and 2k vers, just as one example.

Here is a similar report using the common 222x311 build:
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simula...feee4a2900ee64

With this setup we see setups with high mastery simulating much higher, probably because of chaos blades.

Here is how you set up this kind of simulation: