WW Monk counter class?

[Deleted]

Is there any class/spec who can beat WW Monk 1 vs 1? I have in mind instanced PvP, not WPvP.
These guys have so many tools to escape, kite, survive, heal, burst you down ...

[George Costanza]

WEll currently bastion has few counters.

[Deleted]

WEll currently bastion has few counters.

Translation, please.

[Crruor]

Is there any class/spec who can beat WW Monk 1 vs 1? I have in mind instanced PvP, not WPvP.
These guys have so many tools to escape, kite, survive, heal, burst you down ...

Frost mage.

[Cempa]

Is there any class/spec who can beat WW Monk 1 vs 1? I have in mind instanced PvP, not WPvP.
These guys have so many tools to escape, kite, survive, heal, burst you down ...

As some one who plays WW + Affliction I can understand the frustration some have with WW. I believe its due to the nature of WW being an ultra-high movement build built around poor sustained and powerful burst. WW has been called a 'one trick pony' in the past because all of the burst comes during an 8sec window in which x2 CD's are used, being Serenity+Touch of Death. Today though the build has other options but that's another story.

Next comes FoF (fists and its stun) is channeled with longer than normal melee range that hits in a cone and stuns by dropping the target(s) to the ground. This has a short CD of about +22sec. Add to that a 45sec CD (Leg Sweep) area stun (again drops target(s) to the ground) for a long 5sec.

WW likes to chain those two stuns for a very long stun (not sure with DR how many sec that turns out to be) but if you sit in that chain and let the monk unload with all CD's used with stacks of damage enhancements from talents and abilities (combo+fists) .. You are looking at about a full HP bar of damage within that burst window.

First of all, YES every class in WoW can counter a WW monk BUT some can do it better. You begin by mitigating the burst window and different builds have different ways to stop WW damage during those 8sec. Next comes Touch of Karma which you need to pretty much stop damaging the WW during. Again, you need to expect that!

x1 Paladin negates Karma with a bubble on self or friend ... Other builds CC the monk during Karma/burst ... All builds have some way at mitigating some or most of the WW burst.

Inside a BG setting a smart monk will take his time until the healer (or kill target) has used CC's/CD's .. Your team needs to be aware as well as you, as soon as you see the massive animations for WW CD's YOU NEED to CC monk ASAP. After the WW blows his CD's damage is easily healed .. On ,y Warlock I Death Coil+Fear chain WW during CD's and my team mate lives every time .. As long as I can trinket the second stun and insta open gap for the next 4 or 5 sec I live and the monk goes on defensive ..

tl;dr Mitigate the 8sec burst window (like Serenity+Touch of Death)

[Deleted]

WW is not as good as people are saying. its really just a noob punisher if you don't know what to do during his/hers cds. when he pops serenity just cc him (or slow and kite). when he pops karma, slow and kite or cc since he/she will become more offensive during that cd (its very rarely used as a traditional defensive cd.

[salovia]

As long as I can trinket the second stun and insta open gap for the next 4 or 5 sec I live and the monk goes on defensive ..

Then what do you do about 45s later when leg sweep comes back up and your trinket still has 1:15 left?

[Deleted]

Thanks, guys. Btw, A good WWs don't use Serenity any more: it has been nerfed to only 24% dmg increase for 8 seconds in instanced PvP. SEF is still 45% dmg for 15 (or maybe 12?) seconds, 2 charges, provides some kind of short protection (your opponent looses you for a few moments when clones pops up).
So i really have no idea why do you tell me how do i counter Serenity, if that Talent is not being used in pvp any more.

[Fritters154]

Thanks, guys. Btw, A good WWs don't use Serenity any more: it has been nerfed to only 24% dmg increase for 8 seconds in instanced PvP. SEF is still 45% dmg for 15 (or maybe 12?) seconds, 2 charges, provides some kind of short protection (your opponent looses you for a few moments when clones pops up).
So i really have no idea why do you tell me how do i counter Serenity, if that Talent is not being used in pvp any more.

That is kind of underplaying what Serenity actually does as it is more than just a raw damage buff. Serenity might be slightly better at killing something straight up while stun locked but SEF+WDP is going to be better in most situations and IMO is easier to use and more difficult to counter.

The examples given are pretty much all how to counter Serenity, SEF is more problematic as it lasts longer, does more overall damage, and can be used multiple times. Many of the counters mentioned do mitigate a lot of it though, but the 2nd SEF with a second set of stuns and no trinket up is brutal.

[Cempa]

Then what do you do about 45s later when leg sweep comes back up and your trinket still has 1:15 left?

Your right and what I should have said I trinket out of the second stun once CD's are used by the WW .. I realize you can't always do that but other than help your best chance is mitigating the 8sec burst window which the WW will have you stunned in from fist and leg sweep. Do that and you will most likely win.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks, guys. Btw, A good WWs don't use Serenity any more: it has been nerfed to only 24% dmg increase for 8 seconds in instanced PvP. SEF is still 45% dmg for 15 (or maybe 12?) seconds, 2 charges, provides some kind of short protection (your opponent looses you for a few moments when clones pops up).
So i really have no idea why do you tell me how do i counter Serenity, if that Talent is not being used in pvp any more.

I realize things have changed though I still use it and still can take down a healer as long as I make sure its after they are out of CD's ..

Today WW use White Tiger and I'll test though would be great if others can talk about it ..

[Saverem]

Is there any class/spec who can beat WW Monk 1 vs 1? I have in mind instanced PvP, not WPvP.
These guys have so many tools to escape, kite, survive, heal, burst you down ...

I main a WW for PvP and we have a few.

Survival Hunters, Frost Mages, pretty much every tank (especially Prot War, Pally, and BDK), Ret Paladins are pretty hard and almost impossible if they use all of their CDs. Sub Rogues are hard when they use CDs, I'd say I'm 50/50 against them.


This is all assuming BG templates. In outdoor PvP there really isn't any superior class, it's whoever has the best gear and ganks the other.

[Tyrannica]

I think, due to the bursty nature of legion, touch of karma got really powerful, because the guy on the other end bursted himself down so fast that he could hardly react in time, its more true in 2s without a healer in those skirmishes where you only got very little time to do your stuff or die.

I do not think they are that much of a problem in 3s, would put them into cc and tunnel the other guy or his healer.

pvp instanced and going to solo ww monk........ simply don't do it, its a very bad idea to do that, even if you could land some dmg on his health bar, he will simply escape instantly. you can try to cc him when he is carring a flag, though.

[Saverem]

Thanks, guys. Btw, A good WWs don't use Serenity any more: it has been nerfed to only 24% dmg increase for 8 seconds in instanced PvP. SEF is still 45% dmg for 15 (or maybe 12?) seconds, 2 charges, provides some kind of short protection (your opponent looses you for a few moments when clones pops up).
So i really have no idea why do you tell me how do i counter Serenity, if that Talent is not being used in pvp any more.

I think Serenity is still better in PvP. Serenity gives you better burst where as SEF splits your damage, which although is overall more damage, that's not what PvP is about. PvP is about being able to kill someone in a small window while their healer is CC'd/OOR, and Serenity is just better for that. Same reason why Xuen is better than Hit Combo. Also, WDP is kinda annoying in PvP as it roots you in place for the duration.

[Deleted]

So i really have no idea why do you tell me how do i counter Serenity, if that Talent is not being used in pvp any more.

Just checked the 8 highest rated monks in 3v3 arena, they all have Whirling Dragon Punch as a talent. Serenity seems to be dead, indeed.

http://www.arenamate.net/?region=&re...lass_filter=10

[Snegovik]

DH with 1st Blood/Demonic Hybrid build has a good chance beating WW, in 2s skrimishes when i face WW on my alt DH, i simply pop all my cds and kill WW through karma, but if WW is good and will cc your meta/kite you around pillar it gets very hard for DH.

My main Ret however, has no real issues killing WW, it just takes 30 minutes to kill a WW who kites :P

[Sin Cara]

Serenity is absolutely terrible in arena now.

Monks lost a lot of the thunder they had last season. Rets and other classes that can bait monk cooldowns easily beat them.

[Cempa]

I went back and tested the build and you guys are correct:

1) Combo Point Vs Xuen:

Not even close, the white tiger even though its on a 3min CD, it out performs Combo by a huuuuuuuge margin

2) Whirling Punch Vs Serenity

Here the outcome in PvE is Punch by a good margin and in PvP NO CONTEST Punch all the way ...

I'm convinced now Blizz just decided Serenity was too much of a headache and nurfed it to the point of being of ZERO use ..

NOTE:

With Xuen+Punch I do the same burst/damage I did with Combo+Serenity pre nurf ..

Fix:

Buff combo point to equal Xuen

[Omaski]

A good Ret easily beats WW monks 1v1

[Saverem]

Serenity is absolutely terrible in arena now.

Monks lost a lot of the thunder they had last season. Rets and other classes that can bait monk cooldowns easily beat them.

OK, those 2 are just bad if they lost to a Rogue. I agree Monks definitely got nerfed and are a shadow of their former PvP glory, but a Monk and Mage should be able to take out a lone Rogue.

2 DPS couldn't kill a Rogue in 4min, they are bad...

They didn't know how to use their CD breakers. They were probably split allowing Rogue to go 1v1 for a bit. They didn't take the see invis orbs that spawn a minute in.

[Deleted]

A good Ret easily beats WW monks 1v1

Easily? Ret can only beat WW if he doesn't take that auto bubble Talent, otherwise he has no defenses vs Touch of Karma other than LoH every ten minutes. But if WW is loosing to a ret, WW can just simply escape from the fight or kite ret for 1.5 minutes untill ToK is up again.

Also, Rogue has no chance vs WW. Those two must be really really bad, while Rogue has to be super skilled