[Balance] Slip's Boomkin Theorycrafting (7.2.5+)

[GhostFoot]

Hey Slippy, I'm here to tickle your brain.

Re-rolled moonkin for guild, and before I got my gear to a decent place I was running the Starfall (memekin) build for M+ and because I got Lady and the Child - and it was solid. I've since gotten my tier and outgeared the starfall build, but the potential of LotC lingers with me. So here's my question,

With 7.2 finalizing, is a LotC/starfall build viable with a focus on ... moonfire spamming?

Here's my rationale:
- LotC 20% MF damage, w/ potential to two target cleave
- 7.2 traits are + starfall damage and up to 25% direct MF damage (buffed by stellar emp.)
- 7.2 relics, potential 7/7 MF (50% dmg) or 7/7 stellar emp. (70%) or both (lol?)
- Mastery stacking emphasizes both starfall and stellar emp, therefor MF.
- T20 gels with this build, unlike T19
- potentially never having to stand still again?

I'm not mathematically inclined, so i'm not sure the extent of these multipliers, but to me they feel strong. I've got stray questions, but I saw that you're in process of simming LotC, figured I'd throw this out there now. Thanks for your work and let me know what you think.

[vorchun]

Initial damage of applying moonfire is tiny compared to ticks themselves. You can buff it by 500% even and single solar wrath will still do more damage and generate more astral power.

[Cyous]

Initial damage of applying moonfire is tiny compared to ticks themselves. You can buff it by 500% even and single solar wrath will still do more damage and generate more astral power.

(Lol, that would make it's value equal to Starsurge. But I know you dont mean anything by it.)

[Myztikrice]

Or have Lady and the Child and hit 2 targets

[Moshots]

(Lol, that would make it's value equal to Starsurge. But I know you dont mean anything by it.)

you know what he means though.... it needs to be like 50-100% stacking up to 3 times max to be viable.

[vendizritz]

yea it should

[foibooze]

NightZero you should def run with the metronome as with your haste you will get 2x emp. solars out without problems as soon as u get a stack of accelerando, increasing your APgeneration during weaving.
Make sure you're pre-potting and using that second pot aswell :P What do you have to swap plaguehive with?
Also atm you seem to be using shooting stars together with a full ST build, which makes little sense as you'd benefit more from BotA in ST and if you want something hybridy you should def take SD instead of Nature's Balance rather than SS over BotA. Atleast that should be quite a bit better - you might have to move and then have time to refresh dots and therefor have less use for NB, you will however never move enough to have SS give you more AP than BotA.

[NightZero88]

NightZero you should def run with the metronome as with your haste you will get 2x emp. solars out without problems as soon as u get a stack of accelerando, increasing your APgeneration during weaving.
Make sure you're pre-potting and using that second pot aswell :P What do you have to swap plaguehive with?
Also atm you seem to be using shooting stars together with a full ST build, which makes little sense as you'd benefit more from BotA in ST and if you want something hybridy you should def take SD instead of Nature's Balance rather than SS over BotA. Atleast that should be quite a bit better - you might have to move and then have time to refresh dots and therefor have less use for NB, you will however never move enough to have SS give you more AP than BotA.

Yeah I know that my talents are a bit wonky. I really don't have great trinkets. Got whispers, metronome and plaguehive are really the best. I tried running plaguehive/metronome last night but couldn't really notice a difference.

In so far as weaving, even at 30%+ haste I can't fit in two SW before ED drops. So I've been doing SS/LS/SS/LS/SS/LS/etc and I think I can do like 5 maybe 6 before I run out of AP. What is the haste% needed to fit two SW in between SS? It might just be lag/delay on my part that I can't get it.

Out of curiosity, at 890 ilevel what is the estimated DPS I should be doing ST? I've never used any SIM stuff before.

[foibooze]

Here's one of the better improvements you'll get then (also make sure you have 2 empowered solars(starlord) : Get advanced interface options addon and set your custom lag tolerance at 3-400, voilá - you're now casting 2x wraths instead of a lunar.

Whispers SHOULD be better than plaguehive but might come down to you static haste being too low to use it atm then. although if you're currently only weaving with a lunar it should def win over plaguehive.

If you run BotA and NB with that lag tolerance setting you'll most often have to move for some mechanic b4 actually running out of AP to chain starsurges =D

[NightZero88]

Here's one of the better improvements you'll get then (also make sure you have 2 empowered solars(starlord) : Get advanced interface options addon and set your custom lag tolerance at 3-400, voilá - you're now casting 2x wraths instead of a lunar.

Whispers SHOULD be better than plaguehive but might come down to you static haste being too low to use it atm then. although if you're currently only weaving with a lunar it should def win over plaguehive.

If you run BotA and NB with that lag tolerance setting you'll most often have to move for some mechanic b4 actually running out of AP to chain starsurges =D

Awesome, I'll give it a shot. How are you getting the 2 empowered solars if you're weaving? Right now and this may be wrong, I weave SS/LS until I run out of AP. Then cast wrath/moon spells to get back to 100 then weave back down to 0. As such I generally don't have as many empowerments but this works because you replace your one LS with SS. However if you're casting 2 SWs you'd also be at 0 so do you not weave constantly?

[Myztikrice]

Get to 90+ Asp. Starsurge (1 SW empowered). Lunar Strike. Starsurge (2 SW empowereD). Double Solar Wrath. Repeat. Replace Lunar Strike with New/Half Moon

[NightZero88]

What's the haste requirement to fit 2 SW in between SSs? 30% doesn't seem to be enough and even at like 32-33% it seems tight.

[Myztikrice]

I believe it's 30% assuming no latency, 32-33% should be enough. You can also download AdvancedInterfaceOptions to assign a custom lag tolerance of 100-300 ms, some have said this helped.

It also may just be me but the nerf to Emerald Dreamcatcher seemed to have bugged the interaction between the filler spells and Starsurge queuing when your Astral Power is low. Before if your AsP went above 20 even just a little (2 stacks of buff), you could weave as normal, now for me if I go above 26 even a little (2 stacks of buff after nerf) the Starsurge won't go off (as if the game is taking extra long to recognize that oh, starsurge does cost 26 now and not 40)

[NightZero88]

I believe it's 30% assuming no latency, 32-33% should be enough. You can also download AdvancedInterfaceOptions to assign a custom lag tolerance of 100-300 ms, some have said this helped.

It also may just be me but the nerf to Emerald Dreamcatcher seemed to have bugged the interaction between the filler spells and Starsurge queuing when your Astral Power is low. Before if your AsP went above 20 even just a little (2 stacks of buff), you could weave as normal, now for me if I go above 26 even a little (2 stacks of buff after nerf) the Starsurge won't go off (as if the game is taking extra long to recognize that oh, starsurge does cost 26 now and not 40)

I have 31% haste unbuffed and even with 2 stacks of metronome I still have trouble getting 2 SW in before ED drops. I did get the lag thing and it does help but its still harder to pull off. The only issue with the lag utility is that you don't get it on a SS so you have to hit SS then spam click SW/LS which is kinda annoying.

[foibooze]

30.6% haste unbuffed here, with food and 1 stack of metronome (hc though) I get 2 emp solars in almost 100% of the time, 2 stacks of metronome and it can't fail.

[Slippykins]

I don't bother with the 30% haste breakpoint, purely because I haven't actually got a simulation to prove the breakpoint is worth taking with my gear alternatives and gear set-up that includes Whispers.

For comparison, I usually have about 29% haste, but to get to that 30-32% breakpoint would require me to lose quite a lot of int and other secondaries through ilvl reduction.

[Myztikrice]

Isn't it just replacing one piece at that point?

[Slippykins]

Isn't it just replacing one piece at that point?

It's one piece if I choose to take a large ilvl hit, or multiple pieces if trying to reduce the ilvl hit (unfortunately I've had a poorly-optimised neck for a while now). Sims show that even without the breakpoint, casting 2xSW between Starsurges occurs quite often due to Incarnation, Hero and Whispers, but mostly because of Whispers. Additionally, the bad-side proc of Whispers reduces the value of the breakpoint by decreasing the amount of time you can 2xSW even with the breakpoint. Since Whispers is ~0.7PPM, this means that total time that the breakpoint is worthless is at least (12+8)/(60/0.7)=~23.3%. Combine that with the uptime of Incarnation (30/180=16.67%) and that movement can interrupt weaving, the value of the breakpoint is significantly reduced and the main contributing factor is Whispers. This is compounded when enchanting Mark of the Claw or using Metronome.

[NightZero88]

It's one piece if I choose to take a large ilvl hit, or multiple pieces if trying to reduce the ilvl hit (unfortunately I've had a poorly-optimised neck for a while now). Sims show that even without the breakpoint, casting 2xSW between Starsurges occurs quite often due to Incarnation, Hero and Whispers, but mostly because of Whispers. Additionally, the bad-side proc of Whispers reduces the value of the breakpoint by decreasing the amount of time you can 2xSW even with the breakpoint. Since Whispers is ~0.7PPM, this means that total time that the breakpoint is worthless is at least (12+8)/(60/0.7)=~23.3%. Combine that with the uptime of Incarnation (30/180=16.67%) and that movement can interrupt weaving, the value of the breakpoint is significantly reduced and the main contributing factor is Whispers. This is compounded when enchanting Mark of the Claw or using Metronome.

Can you sim my char like you did for that other guy? I made a few changes and put myself at 31% haste so I should almost always be able to weave SW. I really feel like I should be putting out more damage than I am. Do have a normal whispers (880). Also the big 3 legendary items (ED, IFE, OE).

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Beakerz/simple

[PowerGamez]

Can you sim my char like you did for that other guy? I made a few changes and put myself at 31% haste so I should almost always be able to weave SW. I really feel like I should be putting out more damage than I am. Do have a normal whispers (880). Also the big 3 legendary items (ED, IFE, OE).

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Beakerz/simple

You're parsing in the bottom 25% and doing ~30% less damage than you should be.

You're using the wrong talents for bosses (check gebuz guide or warcraftlogs rankings for appropriate talent choices), wrong food (375 haste > 200 int), not using potions (at least use prolonged - they're 30g each), not casting enough (need to tidy up your rotation - practice on a training dummy or something)

There are a lot of fundamental problems you need to look at before you're trying to min-max and drill down on sims.