FROST: Glacial Spike vs Thermal Void

[Nephcyte]

Which one is better and how much DPS is the difference? (without frost legenadries)

I have heard that TV is very performance dependent so its easy to so screw up. I wonna play frost glacial spike because i dont like getting paranoid about icy veins uptime which is easily screws by movement.

I would like something more stable across the board for all nighthold fights.

When i try to google mage pov to see rotations all i see in 7.1.5 is Thermal void builds so i wonder by how much better it is.

Also when i try to google guides for glacial spike i use this as baseline: https://www.altered-time.com/forum/v...php?f=5&t=3635

Its pretty good however i would like a more in depth one covering the cleave and aoe rotation, when to use blizzard and such. If someones knows about better guide please let me know.

Thanks in advance.

[Imaskar]

This guide is absolute best, made by a top GS performer.
Many questions are discussed in comments there, better read the whole thing.
For cleave: use the same as ST.
For aoe: use aoe rotation from any TV guide.

[pkm]

TV is used for single target fights and low movement. Situations where you have less uptime on the boss, GS starts to become better and when you can cleave it. Blizzard is used at 2+ targets if TV, 3+ when GS. For fights like krosus and trilliax you want to be TV. But if for whatever reason you are moving too much and can't keep uptime on the boss, GS starts to pull ahead. But if you are doing krosus mythic then it's best that you really practice TV game play as its better st dps.

[Deleted]

TV is used for single target fights and low movement. Situations where you have less uptime on the boss, GS starts to become better and when you can cleave it. Blizzard is used at 2+ targets if TV, 3+ when GS. For fights like krosus and trilliax you want to be TV. But if for whatever reason you are moving too much and can't keep uptime on the boss, GS starts to pull ahead. But if you are doing krosus mythic then it's best that you really practice TV game play as its better st dps.

Can you use glacial spike build with shit gear, or does it require sick gear? I thinking GS for mythic+, but i only got like 850 gear

[mrgreenthump]

Can you use glacial spike build with shit gear, or does it require sick gear? I thinking GS for mythic+, but i only got like 850 gear

It needs really sick gear, so nope.. I don't see 850 being enough to do great.

[Mcpenco1234]

I am also wondering the same thing. I don't know if I should go GS or TV. With my frost gear I am 895 equipped (still have 2 840 relics since I never contemplated going frost), so i should be around 900 when I get at least 880 relics.

I have no frost specific legendaries, I have fire helm, chest, boots and shard.

What do you guys think?

[pies1]

It's worth noting that gs and tv have different stat priorities and, additionally, tv stat values are similar to fire so you can just go fire for aoe/m+ without much trouble

[Ssateneth]

I was so confused in this thread.

<- Plays a frost DK

[Deleted]

I am also wondering the same thing. I don't know if I should go GS or TV. With my frost gear I am 895 equipped (still have 2 840 relics since I never contemplated going frost), so i should be around 900 when I get at least 880 relics.

I have no frost specific legendaries, I have fire helm, chest, boots and shard.

What do you guys think?

Shard is insanely good for frost. If TV you'll want Vashj and Mag but shard is barely behind those two. For GS it's the best legendary by a mile.

I'd say give them both a try, but beware that GS only really starts to pick up once you get high levels in the final trait for the weapon.

[pies1]

Shard is insanely good for frost. If TV you'll want Vashj and Mag but shard is barely behind those two. For GS it's the best legendary by a mile.

I'd say give them both a try, but beware that GS only really starts to pick up once you get high levels in the final trait for the weapon.

For another 2 months or less.

[Gavran]

TV is used for single target fights and low movement. Situations where you have less uptime on the boss, GS starts to become better and when you can cleave it. Blizzard is used at 2+ targets if TV, 3+ when GS. For fights like krosus and trilliax you want to be TV. But if for whatever reason you are moving too much and can't keep uptime on the boss, GS starts to pull ahead. But if you are doing krosus mythic then it's best that you really practice TV game play as its better st dps.

Is this correct? So, thats mean we dont use Blizzard on Botanist until 3rd boss is spawned?

[pkm]

Is this correct? So, thats mean we dont use Blizzard on Botanist until 3rd boss is spawned?

It's what I've read from reputable people on the mage discord. I would guess that the reasoning is because using frost bolts to build icicles to glacial spike is far more important on two targets than frost orb resets. TV does not really have this so using blizzard at 2 targets seems to be reasonable.

[Deleted]

Whats the minimum gear you need to run GS? Do you need any T19 pieces? or just ~900 ilvl?

[Deleted]

All the highest parsing mages on warcraftlogs for both heroic and mythic all use TV. What is the point of using GS build if TV is a passive and seems to be performing better across the board?

[Charge me Doctor]

All the highest parsing mages on warcraftlogs for both heroic and mythic all use TV. What is the point of using GS build if TV is a passive and seems to be performing better across the board?

You are looking at this

And say dishonest things like it being better "across the board"?

[Imaskar]

Whats the minimum gear you need to run GS? Do you need any T19 pieces? or just ~900 ilvl?

895+, 45+ traits (better 50+), 2pc is nice but not obligatory.
But even if you have less, you will still get higher numbers than fire without bis legs.

All the highest parsing mages on warcraftlogs for both heroic and mythic all use TV. What is the point of using GS build if TV is a passive and seems to be performing better across the board?

1) TV requires a lot more skill AND RNGesus blessing.
2) some logs from top performers may still be hidden.

[Deleted]

Okay I went to the target dummy and tested out GS v TV over exactly 5min (TW CD). I have 899ilv with 4pc and no gloves/bracers. I did not double icelance after flurry inside of TW and IV.

TV: 667k
GS: 641k

If the fight was 5.5min I think GS would have slightly pulled ahead because at 5min IV was just coming off CD. Fair enough, its pretty close but if I had bracers and gloves TV would benefit more from them. I also don't understand how TV is more difficult to play. You can go LW talent for both builds you have 3 buttons for TV and 4 for GS and you have to track icicles.

[klaps_05]

Can you use glacial spike build with shit gear, or does it require sick gear? I thinking GS for mythic+, but i only got like 850 gear

for GS you need 85% mastery and 54 traits otherwise you wont be on the meters much

[Karah]

Okay I went to the target dummy and tested out GS v TV over exactly 5min (TW CD). I have 899ilv with 4pc and no gloves/bracers. I did not double icelance after flurry inside of TW and IV.

TV: 667k
GS: 641k

If the fight was 5.5min I think GS would have slightly pulled ahead because at 5min IV was just coming off CD. Fair enough, its pretty close but if I had bracers and gloves TV would benefit more from them. I also don't understand how TV is more difficult to play. You can go LW talent for both builds you have 3 buttons for TV and 4 for GS and you have to track icicles.

You are wasting 2 FoF procs every 24 seconds with LW, that can help you get to second orb during IV.

I personaly loathe the long cast time on GS, it kinda kills the build for me.

[Eyliria]

for GS you need 85% mastery and 54 traits otherwise you wont be on the meters much

I see this magical 85% mastery number thrown around but the Sim weights just dont support it.

My current weights (903ILVL, 50 levels) is crit > vers ~= int > mastery > haste. With the crit being a lie because I'm near shatter cap, so putting any real amount there will cause it to drop to dead last.

Altered-Time discussion also has nothing on it.

I've heard the 85% magical number, the 3 frostbolt relics magic gear set up... but when I crunch the numbers, it just doesnt seem true.