Reno...

[Wrightrising]

Please explain to me how when Reno Jackson gets DUPLICATED by what ever means into my opponents deck, how does he still trigger when played?. I just died to a mage after killing him twice becuase he brewmastered one, then he used soulstealer to get another into his deck. Now if im not mistaken Renos text says if there are no duplicates in your deck heal to blah blah blah. So how does this mechanic really work?

[Deleted]

it works just like that, if there are 2 reno's in the deck and he draws one or has either in his hand, the effect will trigger.

it does not include cards in hand or cards in play

[Sesshomaru]

You can have 10 copies of a card in your hand, still have but a single one in the deck, yet the effects of Reno, Kazakus and the rest will still trigger as it's the deck that only counts.

In short: Apparently he used his Reno, then Brewmaster into using said Reno and the Soulstealer puts a copy of Reno in the deck, being the 2nd physical Reno and 3rd to be played.

Edit: Basically what @Greyt said.

[caractacus]

If you're a MTG player replace the word "deck" with "library" in the reno text and it should make sense

[Twoddle]

It's another one of those things where you don't know what will happen until you experience it because "Deck" is an ambiguous term.

[Deleted]

Deck =/= hand

[Nikkaszal]

It's not ambiguous. HS has ALWAYS had clear defining borders between Deck, Hand and in play.

The Goons cards specify Hand, as an example. Mistcaller and Hobart specify Hand and Deck. Reno, Kaz etc specify Deck.

What that means is anything that says Deck only means exactly that. Has nothing to do with what is in hand or in play.

You could have 14 duplicates, Reno and Kaz, and if the last 14 cards in your deck are all the second copies of the cards you have previously drawn, GUESS WHAT - Reno and Kaz will work, because your DECK has no duplicates.

[Blueobelisk]

Yeah I agree that Reno's wording is pretty clear.

It helps that everyone was discussing statistics for one or two duplicates being in the deck for really good cards when Reno first came out.

[Nezrael]

It's not ambiguous.

Have to disagree with you on this.
It is indeed used consistently between cards that care about 'deck' during the game, where it describes the pile of cards you have left to draw from. But you do create a 30 card 'deck' that you use to begin with. That's two different usages of the same term, hence it's by definition ambiguous.
So, from reading the card the first time, without any experience of similar effects, it's definietly not completely obvious what will happen.

I don't see this as a great problem, but a lot of confusion could have been avoided by adding one small word, so Reno would read "[...] if you have no duplicates left in your deck"

[Nikkaszal]

Counter-disagree

Every single card that has interactions with "deck" has always meant "the cards that have not yet been drawn in this particular game". There is not a single one that references your deck as a whole meta unit outside the match you are playing. Not one.

[deadman1]

Have to disagree with you on this.
It is indeed used consistently between cards that care about 'deck' during the game, where it describes the pile of cards you have left to draw from. But you do create a 30 card 'deck' that you use to begin with. That's two different usages of the same term, hence it's by definition ambiguous.
So, from reading the card the first time, without any experience of similar effects, it's definietly not completely obvious what will happen.

I don't see this as a great problem, but a lot of confusion could have been avoided by adding one small word, so Reno would read "[...] if you have no duplicates left in your deck"

Hand and deck have always been different, there are some inconsistencies in HS but I can't think of any pertaining to deck/hand.

The new highlander cards all read the same as well.

[Nezrael]

You're both actually not giving a counter-argument to my statement
You're just pointing out that cards, that reference the 'deck' are consistent - I agree with you on this and explicitly stated it in my first reply.

My point is, in the general context of hearthstone (and card games in general), the term 'deck' also has the meaning of 'the pile of 30 cards you play a game with'.

Again, that's not much of a problem as soon as you're somewhat used to the game, but lacking any experience with how cards that mention the deck work in a game, it's not completely clear from just reading the text.

I'm fully aware I'm nitpicking here, but when it comes to wording and room for interpretation, the devil is in the details after all.

[Blueobelisk]

You're both actually not giving a counter-argument to my statement
You're just pointing out that cards, that reference the 'deck' are consistent - I agree with you on this and explicitly stated it in my first reply.

My point is, in the general context of hearthstone (and card games in general), the term 'deck' also has the meaning of 'the pile of 30 cards you play a game with'.

Again, that's not much of a problem as soon as you're somewhat used to the game, but lacking any experience with how cards that mention the deck work in a game, it's not completely clear from just reading the text.

I'm fully aware I'm nitpicking here, but when it comes to wording and room for interpretation, the devil is in the details after all.

But that's not what OP is complaining about. He's complaining that after the deck was made, in-game, duplicates were made.

I guess he also thinks Ambush was a permanent counter to Reno/Kazakus and that Manic Soulcaster was completely useless then, too.

[Mahourai]

Reno counting the current composition of your deck is pretty logical.

I can't think of any other game that has cards that care about the composition of your deck when you began the game like this either. It's not like you can cast Demonic Tutor in MTG to get cards you already played simply because they were in your deck to start the game.

[Taalyn]

Counter-disagree

Every single card that has interactions with "deck" has always meant "the cards that have not yet been drawn in this particular game". There is not a single one that references your deck as a whole meta unit outside the match you are playing. Not one.

He's not arguing discrepancies between cards. He's saying when you go to My Collection you can create a new "deck." In this case deck means a collection of 30 cards you take with you into a game. Then you get into the game and deck now means cards not in your hand or already played.

[Blueobelisk]

He's not arguing discrepancies between cards. He's saying when you go to My Collection you can create a new "deck." In this case deck means a collection of 30 cards you take with you into a game. Then you get into the game and deck now means cards not in your hand or already played.

Oh now I get it. People who are confused by this problem were born after the year 2000 and are learning what a "deck" is for the first time. Because anyone whose played with a pack of playing cards before wouldn't even have this issue; "deck" is a common word. Not joking.

Next someone is gonna get confused by the word "draw." "What happened, the card said draw a card but my phone isn't bringing up a blank canvas for me to show my artistic skills." Still not joking.

[Twoddle]

Oh now I get it. People who are confused by this problem were born after the year 2000 and are learning what a "deck" is for the first time. Because anyone whose played with a pack of playing cards before wouldn't even have this issue; "deck" is a common word. Not joking.

Next someone is gonna get confused by the word "draw." "What happened, the card said draw a card but my phone isn't bringing up a blank canvas for me to show my artistic skills." Still not joking.

You can't compare it to a deck of playing cards, in Hearthstone "Your deck" usually means, and before Reno always meant, the deck you constructed. Reno was the first card to use the wording to mean something else and no one knew 100% for sure exactly how the mechanic would work until they saw it in action.

Btw the correct term for the group of cards you have left to draw from is not "Deck" it's "Stock".

[Mahourai]

You can't compare it to a deck of playing cards, in Hearthstone "Your deck" usually means, and before Reno always meant, the deck you constructed.

No it didn't. Any card referencing it clearly meant "deck" as Reno Jackson does - what you've got left to draw from. For example, Beneath the Grounds and Iron Juggernaut both interact with your opponent's deck on the table, not the deck as constructed in your collection. Meanwhile, no cards have ever worked like you suggest.

Btw the correct term for the group of cards you have left to draw from is not "Deck" it's "Stock".

No, the correct term is what's printed on the cards in the game, which is "deck". No cards have ever referenced your "stock".

[Twoddle]

No it didn't. Any card referencing it clearly meant "deck" as Reno Jackson does - what you've got left to draw from. For example, Beneath the Grounds and Iron Juggernaut both interact with your opponent's deck on the table, not the deck as constructed in your collection. Meanwhile, no cards have ever worked like you suggest.

No, the correct term is what's printed on the cards in the game, which is "deck". No cards have ever referenced your "stock".

Most would infer from the context what "Shuffle into your opponent's deck" will do.

As to the second part google Card games glossary.

[Mahourai]

Most would infer from the context what "Shuffle into your opponent's deck" will do.

So you agree that, in fact, "deck" has never been printed on a card to refer to a deck's construction before the game begins? Ok then.

EDIT:

In fact, "your deck" had already been printed and obviously referred to the remaining contents of your deck on the table too, on cards like Mysterious Challenger and Gang Up.

As to the second part google Card games glossary.

Who cares what some google result is? We know that it isn't "stock" in Hearthstone, because that isn't the term used. You don't get to decide these things, lol.