Ben Carson Calls Slaves 'Immigrants' in First HUD Address

[LaserSharkDFB]

/thread

...this actually is the hill you have chosen to die on. Oh my fucking god.

You're done. You're not even worth my time. I mean, there's certainly room for discussion with the content of the speech itself, but you're literally attacking me over one word that is demonstrably less accurate than the one I used in its place. Go waste someone else's time, zenkai. You've proven your complete dishonesty once again.

[zenkai]

...this actually is the hill you have chosen to die on. Oh my fucking god.

You're done. You're not even worth my time. I mean, there's certainly room for discussion with the content of the speech itself, but you're literally attacking me over one word that is demonstrably less accurate than the one I used in its place. Go waste someone else's time, zenkai. You've proven your complete dishonesty once again.

I proved you're wrong with your own source and you gave up, I understand.

[Deleted]

If we're going to extend modern terminology backwards, then let's go whole hog, and use the modern term for "slavery". These people were human trafficking victims. Are human trafficking victims "immigrants"? No. They don't want to immigrate, they're victims, being sold as property.

It seems to me that you do not understand human trafficking, most of these people do want to immigrate, it is just that they are taken advantage off. Slaves would not have wanted to go to the America's, but what matters is that both did up in another country for life, that would make them... Immigrants! Yes, that is what we call people who came from one country and lived out their lives in another.
It really doesn't matter if they fled a volcano, a war or the actual hand of god it self, if you move from one country to another for the remainder of your life then you are an immigrant. So this guy wasn't really wrong, he is just an insensitive douche.

[TZucchini]

/thread

You should probably listen to Carson's actual speech. Not NBC's interpretation of his speech.

If you did. You'd realize that Carson CALLED slaves immigrants.

[HumbleDuck]

I get it, it's a language barrier thing. See, the definition I linked is very much a real definition of the word. As such, it's also valid. Your definition, which only appears in the Cambridge dictionary, doesn't invalidate the one I linked from Merriam Webster. Get over the fact that you're wrong on this and stop trying to derail the thread with your pointless debate about whether words only have a single definition(hint: they don't).

Yea, you are the one who called the Cambridge definition made up because it was different than yours.
And the one who insists that lies and inaccurate statements are the same is you. Probably because you do not want to admit that Carson was being intentionally dishonest and not just "inaccurate" in choosing his words.

[Bodakane]

It seems to me that you do not understand human trafficking, most of these people do want to immigrate, it is just that they are taken advantage off. Slaves would not have wanted to go to the America's, but what matters is that both did up in another country for life, that would make them... Immigrants! Yes, that is what we call people who came from one country and lived out their lives in another.
It really doesn't matter if they fled a volcano, a war or the actual hand of god it self, if you move from one country to another for the remainder of your life then you are an immigrant. So this guy wasn't really wrong, he is just an insensitive douche.

I stopped reading at bold. I'll read further when you provide evidence of bold.

For clarification, the part I'm most interested in you proving is the "most of these people" part.

[rogueMatthias]

Well, he is technically correct. Everyone but the natives are immigrants. Not sure what the fuss here is about.

If you're calling people immigrants because their ancestors were immigrants, then the "natives" are immigrants too. Evidence suggests that Australian Aboriginals arrived and populated the Americas first (which would make them immigrants as well), but the Paleo-Indians came and wiped them to extinction there. There isn't a walk of man alive that doesn't have blood in their ledger.

The (first waves of) slaves WERE immigrants, albeit forcibly.

These first waves undoubtably didn't "realise their dreams".

The later generations, when slavery was abolished, these were the children of the immigrants, rather than immigrants themselves.

So calling slaves "immigrants that could realize their dreams" is inaccurate.... and dumb.

[Deleted]

I stopped reading at bold. I'll read further when you provide evidence of bold.

For clarification, the part I'm most interested in you proving is the "most of these people" part.

Do you really believe that these people get clubbed from behind, dragged off and wake up in a ship or room of some sort? Go and watch any human trafficking documentary, they all involve people being tricked into believing that they can go somewhere to work or what ever.

But, i would not expect anything else from people who can't even read a whole post..

[HumbleDuck]

No, I called it made up because it didn't appear in Websters and you didn't link to it. It's ok though, you're wrong. Get over it. Inaccurate can mean completely incorrect.

It can mean wrong, it's doesn't necessarily means wrong.
Earth can be flat (if you observe it under the right circumstances) but if I say " earth is flat", I'm being intentionally dishonest and the statement is FALSE.

On the dishonesty part: I refuse to believe he doesn't understand the difference between slavery and immigration. No one is that stupid.

[Thage]

He's a very good brain surgeon, but good god is he dumb in regards to everything else.

This. I'm not convinced that he isn't some kind of idiot savant. This man claimed, with a straight face, the pyramids were used as grain silos. I wouldn't hesitate to go under the knife with him as my brain surgeon, but I wouldn't trust the man to open a box of Wheaties on his own.

[Bodakane]

Do you really believe that these people get clubbed from behind, dragged off and wake up in a ship or room of some sort? Go and watch any human trafficking documentary, they all involve people being tricked into believing that they can go somewhere to work or what ever.

But, i would not expect anything else from people who can't even read a whole post..

I asked you for proof, and you provided precisely zero.

I wonder, if it's so obvious that what you say is true, then why can't you provide evidence?

Again, I assume your whole post is predicated on your one "fact". So, it's perfectly logical and acceptable to expect some sort of proof.

Although, I think anytime a person asks for proof of a claim another person made, and that other person gives attitude instead of proof....it's fair to regard that other person in a dubious light.

[Deleted]

I asked you for proof, and you provided precisely zero.

I wonder, if it's so obvious that what you say is true, then why can't you provide evidence?

Again, I assume your whole post is predicated on your one "fact". So, it's perfectly logical and acceptable to expect some sort of proof.

Although, I think anytime a person asks for proof of a claim another person made, and that other person gives attitude instead of proof....it's fair to regard that other person in a dubious light.

I told you exactly where to find it, but that is not really hard to believe from people who can't read a whole post that they won't educate them selves..
If you have never watched a documentary on it that is on you, not on me. Go and educate your self, that is totally up to you.

[NYC17]

I proved you're wrong with your own source and you gave up, I understand.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN16E011'


Oopsie.

[JohnBrown1917]

...this actually is the hill you have chosen to die on. Oh my fucking god.

You're done. You're not even worth my time. I mean, there's certainly room for discussion with the content of the speech itself, but you're literally attacking me over one word that is demonstrably less accurate than the one I used in its place. Go waste someone else's time, zenkai. You've proven your complete dishonesty once again.

Hey man, try to be a bit more gentle with our resident "Independents".

[Bodakane]

I told you exactly where to find it, but that is not really hard to believe from people who can't read a whole post..
If you have never watched a documentary on it that is on you, not on me. Go and educate your self, that is totally up to you.

Maybe the problem is you don't understand words. Here's why i say that:

- "Go and watch any human trafficking documentary" =/= I told you exactly where to find it
- Even if there were a 100 documnetaries =/= "most of these people do want to immigrate"

Again, proof would be nice. If its so obvious this should be an easy assignment for you.

[Deleted]

Maybe the problem is you don't understand words. Here's why i say that:

- "Go and watch any human trafficking documentary" =/= I told you exactly where to find it
- Even if there were a 100 documnetaries =/= "most of these people do want to immigrate"

Again, proof would be nice. If its so obvious this should be an easy assignment for you.

Its not hard, but i am not here to provide you your education, it is a well known fact, this isn't some conspiracy theory. There is really no need for me to validate any of that, because it is common knowledge..


But since you obviously can not handle this, here you go.... https://polarisproject.org/victims-traffickers

[Dadwen]

For the record, this is why Trump gets away with all the crap he gets away with. You can't make a big deal about something that's nothing, then expect people to take you seriously when you make a big deal about something that actually matters.

probably one of the most accurate things ever said on this forum.

[xero5141]

I think people just want slavery to continue to be recognized as the horrid act it was. People are literally trying to write it out of american history. Textbook Farce It's kind of stupid. I'm not sure what you gain by calling people butthurt about it. I think you're just being insensitive to be insensitive.

Fixing a problem (racism) is not possible when every single thing that is said that isn't a specifically apologetic statement is called racist. If I'm being insensitive it's because, at some point, people have to get down to the facts of what faces us NOW instead of dwelling on something from such a long time ago.

[xero5141]

How can WE end racism? ... I'm speechless, what are you doing in your spare time to make you think racism is going anywhere in America.

I'm not looking at people and caring about the color of their skin. There, racism ended. Now if all you other morons could follow suit we'd be set for a pretty good time in the next few hundred years.

I think you should watch the documentary "Accidental Courtesy", it gives a real insight into what ACTUAL issues are plaguing our nation regarding racism.

[Katchii]

But...they are technically immigrants? Regardless of how they were brought here and whether willingly or not, they came to a foreign country and lived here permanently.

I mean, it's kind of like saying a prisoner is a "guest" in a prison so the context is a little weird, but it's not technically wrong...Word choice just conveys a more positive meaning than what is actually happening.

That said, Ben Carson is an idiot.