Dear Blizzard, we don´t like diablofied WoW

[Gaidax]

Yes sorry. In the heat of the moment I missed this little "detail".

https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17615113696

by Keilen

Thanks for the link, this way I can clearly say I disagree with this rant here and there.

"We" lol... Seems like your little BS stunt backfired.

[melodramocracy]

Stopped reading at "we"

[Deleted]

no you dident, because there is no excuse, you speak for you, you can speak fro no one else unless you have their whole heartily acceptance that you do speak for them, and that they say they agree with everything you say

you cant just go "hey blizzard we hate jews, so kill them"
no thats not how it works, you cant just speak for "us" then say "well i mean the few that agree with everything i say without a shadow of a doubt"

Okay.

I do not agree.

But.

[FelPlague]

Okay.

I do not agree.

But.

well nor do ALOT of people agree with all the points you dident even make, you just copy/pasted somone elses thread without giving credit, AND STILL HAVENT
(there is a thing called editing, now that youve been caught maybe you should edit the post and mention how none of what is said is yours as you just stole it)
and yet you still have the audacity to go "i speak for the community" with a "what WE want"

[huth]

I for one share your opinion.

So now you can use the ''we'' for both of us.

Are everyone happy?

No, because he'd still need to edit the title to do that. The title as written doesn't specify the group "we" refers to, so an outside observer can only assume the broadest possible category.

[Matthias]

Been playing since Vanilla, TBC was my favorite expansion and i haven't been this addicted to the game since with Legion (sadly with far less time). One thing that always urked me which started in WoTLK is the whole "World of Alts" nonsense. From then on it became so easy for people to deck out 5+ alts it was hard to distinguish what their main actually was. Now when I add someone to my friends list, they are normally actually on the character I friended them as so I actually remember who the hell they were. I've always had two characters, Warrior for DPS and Tanking, and a Paladin to heal.

On Legion I'm always back on my main with something to do. Sure sometimes I'll be lazy and just run in circles around Org or my Class Hall. But a problem the game has had (something that once again started in WoTLK....but exacerbated in Cata and so forth) was that there wasn't much to do outside of raids. Vanilla and TBC your typical casual player had to run Dungeons for gear for the entire expansion, you could go out and farm mats to craft gear, gold was more scares so farming it was more necessary. Reputation grinds etc.

Legion has addressed that problem and many others. Maybe not in the best way but things can be improved. I need to clear Heroic NH and do my 15 each week, that's it on both toons. Once I get the tier and trinks I need from NH I'll stop doing that and only do my 15. However I can do Normal NH, Heroic EN, ToV, Kara, M+. All for AP, Titanforge gear and Legendary gear. Since Titanforge and Legendaries are RNG I don't feel compelled to do it, but if I want to I can go for it.

People whine saying "Doing the same content over and over isn't fun".....like have we been playing the same game all these years? We've always had to run the same damn raids all the time, and Dungeons to an extent depending on the expansion.

What people can't come to grips with is that you can't finish a character for a given tier anymore. People are use to acquiring their BiS gear from the current raid, then switching to a new toon, rinse and repeat. That's not really a thing anymore due to Titanforging, but your ilvl will reflect the level of content your doing regardless as well as your performance. If you wish to pursue the best gear you can go for it. If not, it's not needed.

If your not a Mythic Raider you shouldn't be complaining.

[gerlach1025]

There was a time in this expansion when I had 80 people online on my friend list at prime times. This number has since dropped to 20. I have never witnessed such a steep decline in any expansion before. Nearly all of my friends have quit the game.

It's funny how I have had the exact opposite experience this expansion. It is really difficult to take personal experience and translate that over an entire population. Looking at it another way, you did indicate that you have been playing the game for 12 years, and I will make an assumption that a few of your friends have been as well: is it possible that many of them are just suffering some amount burnout from playing the same game for so many years?

On a different one of your points I have found the Mythic keystones to be great. It has kept our guild doing stuff when there are not enough people online for raid and they constantly challenge us to play better as we push the keystone higher and higher. Without the keystones dungeons would have felt as irrelevant as they did in WoD and Mists.

[Dracullus]

I have news for you: your friends quited because they no longer enjoy WoW. Simple as that. This is not a crime and no game is designed to be enjoyable for everyone for 12 years straight.

"RNG based reward structure and legendaries" is not a reason for quiting, it is excuse. In WoD it was "nothing to do" - when I ran out stuff to do, I simply didn't play anymore without shouting about it on streets and waited for new content, but for many it was excuse to quit. In MoP it was "kung fu panda" or "too many dailies". In Cata "hc dungeons nerfs" or "game is too casual". In WoTLK "dungeons/raids are too easy" "LFG". In BC "space goats" "greens from quest are better than my Naxx gear".

I think for most people quantity and quality of content is most important, but I don't speak for everybody. I just don't think that for usual player really matter if they got bis in every slot, because it will go next patch/expansion anyway. Only experience matter, and Legion experience: zones, dungeons, raids, lore, music, atmosphere is amazing, maybe best in WoW history (and we still know nothing about Argus).

[tankbug]

You don't want RNG, you don't want to grind forever, and you want to max out the character?
Whenever I closed in on BiS (normal raiding) gear in WoD, I started to lose interest. What's the fun of playing a mmorpg where every reward for your deeds are a downgrade or irrelevant?

[globenstine]

believe it or not diablo 3 has a better loot system.

[thatmikeguy]

I somewhat agree. The amount of RNG feels bad atm, but grinding has always been a part of WoW. But great power disparities only hurt the game for existing and new players. There needs to be a number squish for each expansion now to accommodate greater numbers at the end of an expansion so we can get different raid boss mechanics.

I like the Diablo story, but I dont care for any side scrolling game.

[Jujudrood]

Dear Blizzard,

I'm fine with it.
Thanks for mixing it up and trying to breathe life into a stagnant game.
Thanks for giving me more to do than level up, raid, and ???

Oh, and I like Diablo 3.
Not because it's a mindless grind, but because it's a video game.
I play video games as a hobby and distraction, to have a little fun in my down time.
Diablo 3 is fun because I can sit down for 20 minutes, hack the shit out of some demons, and log off with no ill effects or feelings of being empty or behind because I didn't get X item or do not have Y paragon levels or any other grindable things.

Same thing in WoW.
It's fun, a distraction, a hobby.
The grind doesn't affect me because I'm not compelled to grind AP and M+ until my eyeballs bleed.
I have this thing, it's called self-control.
I am not a world-first raider, so I couldn't care less about min/maxing or putting in hours upon hours per day (I play wow maybe 15-20 hours a week at most, 5 of which are raiding).

People take video games too seriously.
Sure, if you actually make a living off of playing games, you care about them.
The vast majority of people (I would estimate 95%+ of the playerbase) are neither world-first chasers nor professional gamers who get paid/make a living off of video games.
For those people, the game is good, the "diablo-esque" features are fine, RNG has and always will be a thing, and everyone can A) get over themselves, or B) find a new game because obviously this one no longer appeals to you.

Signed, a 12 year "veteran" of WoW

[epLe]

First off, most of the mechanics that WoW was buildt upon was taken from Diablo originally.
It is the lore and setting of it all that is from Warcraft.
The loot system including item levels, treasure classes (what mobs can drop what), itemization, stat weighting and colorization was all invented with Diablo.
Everything that made Diablo groundbreaking as a realtime RPG was reused to develop WoW into what made it stand out from all other mmoRPGs 10 years ago.
Vanilla WoW was allready way closer to Diablo in reality back then, than what it has become with the years, even if some Legion functions remind you of Diablo 3.

So you prefer to 5man and worldcontent to be outdated after a few weeks ?
To idle in garrison / classhall waiting for the next mission to complete ?

Legendaries, yes there is may be too many, making the "BiS" kids mega salty for not getting the ones they want most.
But seriously in previous legendary systems, before welfare legendaries got introduced (pre-MoP) most of the whiners never got a single legendary either.
So now without the long MoP-cloak or WoD-ring quests lines, they get it for "free" and still whine about it not being the very best ?
When everyone is running around with the same gear (7.2) it doesnt have any prestige left to it, and shouldnt really be called legendary - out of respect for the older ones.

Getting elusive BiS items suddenly seems harder in Diablo 3 now than WoW.

[Deleted]

"Dear Blizzard,
as a long time World of Warcraft customer, who has played this game for more than 12 years, I would like to make a statement that might surprise you.

And right THERE is the lie, no blizzard customers goes to the not blizzard forum to complain.....

[Ielenia]

There are several things wrong in your post. Starting with your title. You say "we", but you only give your opinion in the entire post, at the very least giving the impression that you think your opinion speaks for a lot of people. Then you say this:

Diablo 3 is a game with a very low retention rate, while World of Warcraft is supposed to be a game with a very high retention rate. You know that Diablo 3 players will never stay with the game for very long because of the nature of the game, but World of Warcraft is a game that you want people to play for a long time, right? So naturally, the motivating elements of both these games should never be mixed. For example, insane amounts of RNG are meant for games with disposable characters that reach their progression ceilings after a short time, not for games in which you spent months or even years working towards improving a single character.

Diablo 3 is an action-RPG with one single expansion, and gets very little content update aside from balance fixes and a handful of new cosmetic stuff every new season. WoW is a MMO-RPG with several expansions, and very often gets a lot of content update between expansions. New reputations, raids, dungeons, maps, etc. That, alone, explains the retention rates. RNG is but a minor part of it.

By adding all these unfitting elements from other games, World of Warcraft loses parts of it's own identity. When I play high level mythic plus dungeons and witness the wildly imbalanced affixes, I think of Diablo 3. When I have to grind hundreds of mythic plus dungeons to receive all the artifact power I need to max out a single weapon, I think of Diablo 3. When I witness all the grief and disappointment created by the unfair legendary system, I imagine a loud casino with all it's slot machine noises. Just keep playing until you eventually get lucky! When I look at the PvP prestige system, I think about Call of Duty. I never in my life would have imagined to think about Call of Duty while playing World of Warcraft! Do you really think there is a massive audience crossover here? I hope you don't!

You don't need to "grind hundreds of mythic+ dungeons". You can get AP doing what you always normally did. However, if you're min-maxing, guess what? If it wasn't Mythic+, you'd be "grinding hundreds" of a different part of the content. Because that's what min-maxing inherently requires: grinding in the hundreds of whatever content gives you what you need to min-max, be it killing certain mobs to get that special item drop that only that specific mob type drops, or grinding raids, or grinding dungeons, etc. The point is, you don't have to massively grind anything.

There is so much else, but it has all been said and done often enough. I am very worried about the future of this game. With the approaching AP grind of patch 7.2, I am very concerned that my apathy towards the RNG based reward structure might eventually increase to an unbearable level. I might even burn out completely, especially since there won't be a lot of new content. Players who want to stay competetive will have to farm mostly the same old mythic plus dungeons over and over again, like they did since the beginning of the expansion.

By "competitive", do you mean, competing for 'world first'? Because, again, not unless you're min-maxing stuff, there is no real reason to grind anything "in the hundreds" just to gain 1~2% more damage.

Was this really what you had in mind when you created this expansion? Having people play the same dungeons hundreds, thousands of times, forcing competetitive raiders and even PvP players to do the same, even if they don't have interest in this activity?

There is no "forcing" anyone, and artifact powers get disabled in PvP.

Wasn't there a promise before the launch of this expansion that players could CHOOSE what they want to do and always be rewarded fairly for it? What happened to that?

It's there.

You really think that raiders and PvP players receive fair amounts of AP compared to dungeoneers? Are you surprised that so many guilds are calling it quits and arena participation is at an all time low?

First of all, yeah. I do think they receive fair amounts of AP. Second, are you really suggesting that the reason guilds are calling quits and arena participation is low is because of AP?

There was a time in this expansion when I had 80 people online on my friend list at prime times. This number has since dropped to 20. I have never witnessed such a steep decline in any expansion before. Nearly all of my friends have quit the game.

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. Here's another anecdotal evidence that completely nullifies yours: my friend list has never been this active in many, many years, in Legion.

You know what almost all of them give as reasons for quitting?

No, I don't, and neither do you.

Blizzard, I hope you to take feedback very serious in these times.

Wrong forum, champ.

[Adoxe]

Who's "we"?

[Deleted]

Who's "we"?

Everyone who is playing the game =)

[thatmikeguy]

Dear Blizzard,

I'm fine with it.
Thanks for mixing it up and trying to breathe life into a stagnant game.
Thanks for giving me more to do than level up, raid, and ???

Oh, and I like Diablo 3.
Not because it's a mindless grind, but because it's a video game.
I play video games as a hobby and distraction, to have a little fun in my down time.
Diablo 3 is fun because I can sit down for 20 minutes, hack the shit out of some demons, and log off with no ill effects or feelings of being empty or behind because I didn't get X item or do not have Y paragon levels or any other grindable things.

Same thing in WoW.
It's fun, a distraction, a hobby.
The grind doesn't affect me because I'm not compelled to grind AP and M+ until my eyeballs bleed.
I have this thing, it's called self-control.
I am not a world-first raider, so I couldn't care less about min/maxing or putting in hours upon hours per day (I play wow maybe 15-20 hours a week at most, 5 of which are raiding).

People take video games too seriously.
Sure, if you actually make a living off of playing games, you care about them.
The vast majority of people (I would estimate 95%+ of the playerbase) are neither world-first chasers nor professional gamers who get paid/make a living off of video games.
For those people, the game is good, the "diablo-esque" features are fine, RNG has and always will be a thing, and everyone can A) get over themselves, or B) find a new game because obviously this one no longer appeals to you.

Signed, a 12 year "veteran" of WoW

Grinding has always been a part of WoW. Questing could be a grind if you remember, and if you like many others, did not buy merge your toon pre-bnet (like most of these people "discovering" toons that have not been logged in for 10 years). It could take forever for that one quest giver to spawn after they were killed, and if you were at the end of a zone you could be stuck, and the game coordinates changing over and over. This new amount of RNG on top of grinding is another story.

[Tarba]

I join you, so it's a "we".
And people still playing are buthurt addicted people who probably applauded the opening of the wow store back in the days, enjoyed the real money action house diablo3, and do non stop boost group 7-9 mythic+. And also probably dlc / early access buyers and clahs of clan players. Don't conciderate them as people. They are the cancer of video game.
And shed a tear for wow. Once they touch something they don't stop until it becomes boiled vomit.

[Deleted]

Please speak for yourself there...

Replace the WE with an I..

Exactly this.