DoS without shoulders

[metalslave]

Worth to use a 880 DoS over a 880 Urn without the shoulders? I got boots + bracers and CoF. DoS sim 713k against 710k with Urn.

So close that I'm not sure if worth to replace since u can do a bad usage of DoS.

[howolowitz]

With proper usage of dos (which isnt hard to do) its 8-10% of your total dmg. I highly doubt the stats on urn give you that much extra dmg

[Elyzibeth]

I just got DOS last night and have some logs using the shoulders. when I was looking at them, it made me wonder if DOS would really be much good compared to a solid agility dps trinket. I mean, don't get me wrong, you'll probably get 3.5-4million damage out of it per use, but you'll lose out on 1700-2000 agility, and possibly some mastery or crit etc. from a different trinket. On straight single target, it's probably close to a wash without shoulders. In AOE an urn boosting your mastery will most likely pull well ahead. Part of the benefit of using the urn on ST is your striking a fully debuffed target, AP, and SOT buffing your AP even further. In AOE, DOS can randomly strike all targets around you, causing you to lose a major buff.

WITH SHOULDERS, I'm getting 10-11% of my damage out of the trinket, I would suspect that would fall to 5-8% for non shoulder users.

hits for 260kish non crit, 560kish crit. (with the 895 version)

[Deleted]

"Is doing 10% of my damage" is still the best statement to proof its strength..

With shoulders 895 DoS is doing around 70k dps at krosus. Without the shoulders at usual crit rates like 25% (+-) its 30% weaker (around 50k dps). 50k is compared to all the other trinkets at ilvl 895 not very strong anymore.

[Deleted]

895 dos sims 3k lower than 890 nbf and 13k higher than 880 urn for me. Considering the volatility of nbf rng ill take that ~0.5% average dps loss in favor of consistency

[Dunderstudy]

A rogue told me in a heroic Gul'dan run that DoS does work with vendetta but I swear I've read here that it doesn't was it changed recently? Or what's the deal?

[TwentyTwelve]

A rogue told me in a heroic Gul'dan run that DoS does work with vendetta but I swear I've read here that it doesn't was it changed recently? Or what's the deal?

Rogue was bad, Vendetta has no effect on DoS

[Dunderstudy]

Rogue was bad, Vendetta has no effect on DoS

Ok good because Atm I don't use mine since its only 870. I am running with 895 CoF and the Trilliax trinket at 900.

[shaunika123]

With proper usage of dos (which isnt hard to do) its 8-10% of your total dmg. I highly doubt the stats on urn give you that much extra dmg

please stop using this as a metric

flat % dmg is totally irrelevant, look at how much acual dps/dmg it does
and then look at how much dps you get from the stats on the stat stick


with that said
yes assuming equal ilvls DoS would be slightly better than the statstick, in most circumstances, but if you got really low mastery for example then maybe not, if you got the bracers AND low mastery then especially not IN STRICT SINGLE TARGET
if there's any cleave to be had however, the mastery trinket will be better

and no it doesnt get increased by vendetta, it does get increased by agonizing poison however

[Symphonic]

A rogue told me in a heroic Gul'dan run that DoS does work with vendetta but I swear I've read here that it doesn't was it changed recently? Or what's the deal?

Yep he's wrong. Granted, sometimes you'll be using DoS during vendetta because you need to regain energy anyway and DoS is off cooldown.

The optimal time to DoS is after an envenom (during surge of toxins) and at 5 stacks of agonizing poison.

[metalslave]

what about the opener? Use it just after the #1 envenon with 5 stacks of AP? We are loosing KB and Vendeta window during the burst but u gain time for future activations.

[shaunika123]

what about the opener? Use it just after the #1 envenon with 5 stacks of AP? We are loosing KB and Vendeta window during the burst but u gain time for future activations.

use it after the 2nd envenom
you'll be on low energy and lose 1-2 seconds of SoT at most

[Deleted]

895 dos sims 3k lower than 890 nbf and 13k higher than 880 urn for me. Considering the volatility of nbf rng ill take that ~0.5% average dps loss in favor of consistency

NBF sims wrong, it deals A L O T less damage when actually used. Even on Elisande, where you have craploads more haste than any other fight (NBF procs more often the more hits u do) it barely did 4% of my dmg. It is an absolutely horrible trinket.

NBF will have to proc 2x every 1.2minutes for it to be better than DoS. Currently, you are lucky if it proc 4x in an entire fight. Also, I've tested Urn and DoS, hitted dummys for a very very long time. Had an 890 Urn+Socket vs 895 DoS.
-- Long story short,I hit the target dummy for hour and hours, going up to 100M-125M and sometimes even 175M-200M dmg done. Then id swap trinkets and do the same, see how long it takes, analyse etc.

Sadly (Cause I would prefer an actual working NBF), DoS really is better, even when ur Urn is 890+socket. It obviously depends on how long the fight takes, but 99% of the times DoS will still do better.

[Halobob87]

880 DoS is way better then an 880 urn on st.

[metalslave]

880 DoS is way better then an 880 urn on st.

Elaboraste... bcz for me shows only 3k more on Simcraft for a 5 min fight...

[Halobob87]

Elaboraste... bcz for me shows only 3k more on Simcraft for a 5 min fight...

NH trinkets' value was already stated like one hundred times on this forum, but if i really have to...

880 DoS should do around 4.3M per cast with ~130% mastery and ~30% crit, on a five minutes figth u can use it 4 times:

4.3m x 4= 17.2M /300sec = 57k dps

Haste stat value = ~7

1000 x7 = 7k dps

Dos value = ~64k dps.

880 urn have ~1700 agility and ~1000 mastery.

Agility (18 stat weight): 1700 x 18 = 30k dps
Mastery (17 stat weight): 1000 x 17= 17k dps

urn total value= 47k dps.

And this is on a 5 minutes figth, where u pretty much lose one full cast of DoS.

[Deleted]

NH trinkets' value was already stated like one hundred times on this forum, but if i really have to...

880 DoS should do around 4.3M per cast with ~130% mastery and ~30% crit, on a five minutes figth u can use it 4 times:

4.3m x 4= 17.2M /300sec = 57k dps

Haste stat value = ~7

1000 x7 = 7k dps

Dos value = ~64k dps.

880 urn have ~1700 agility and ~1000 mastery.

Agility (18 stat weight): 1700 x 18 = 30k dps
Mastery (17 stat weight): 1000 x 17= 17k dps

urn total value= 47k dps.

And this is on a 5 minutes figth, where u pretty much lose one full cast of DoS.

poor math, never ever an 880 DoS is doing 4.3mil on average without the shoulders. Its more like 3mil at 30% crit chance.

[Halobob87]

poor math, never ever an 880 DoS is doing 4.3mil on average without the shoulders. Its more like 3mil at 30% crit chance.

900 DoS does for me 5.1M damage per cast (and i don't have shoulders) , an 880 one should do ~17%-20% less damage.
Even if it does 4M per cast it would still be better then urn.

Plus, as i said, the value of those trinket has been stated 183646 times, so i didn't bother too much and i made a more approximative calculation. If u really think that an 880 urn should be better for ST, go ahead, could not care less.