What raid difficulty would you remove.

[Gouca]

Heroic, obviously. There need to be two difficulties far away from each other.

[moremana]

As the tryhards refuse to call LFR a form of raiding, it cannot be included in the poll, right?

Damn, good point. I chose Mythic, Heroic needs to be end all, with Normal being entry and LFR for those that cant commit to a guild. I do think LFR needs to be harder instead of removed.

[Bowshewicz]

I like the difficulties as they are. But if one had to go, I would remove Heroic -- assuming, of course, that the gear-level gap is also closed after removing a middle difficulty.

LFR is important because it allows players who can't or don't want to organize a group to complete story-based raid content.
Normal is important because it gives players the chance to raid "for real" and learn to cooperate as a group while some of the most difficult challenges are removed.
Heroic is a more intense version of Normal: some more difficult mechanics are added in and penalties for mistakes are more severe.
Mythic is the highest challenge in the game, and it is important to maintain that challenge for the most skilled groups.

[anaxie]

My point is there is a clear reason as to why the boss is now more powerful in a life like way. As opposed to going into your interface and selecting a harder difficulty much like you do when you play any other video game. And many bosses could be tuned to the level of difficulty appropriate for your raid.

The ulduar gimmic would get old real fast. Here give me 200 boss gimmics to trigger hm.

It was a gimmic that didnt survive because it was not a functional method. Thats why. Jow many times did xt get HM triggered on accident? How many times did yogg0 get fucked because Donald talked to a keeper.

The implementayion was clumsy. And not use fun useful. Thats why it was abandoned

[Zuben]

None, they all have their value to their audience.

[Matthias]

The ulduar gimmic would get old real fast. Here give me 200 boss gimmics to trigger hm.

It was a gimmic that didnt survive because it was not a functional method. Thats why. Jow many times did xt get HM triggered on accident? How many times did yogg0 get fucked because Donald talked to a keeper.

The implementayion was clumsy. And not use fun useful. Thats why it was abandoned

I figured it was more so a pain to program. But yea triggering HM was could be a pain. Such as falling short on activating Thorim HM and having to start over or just do him norm.

[Lolsteak]

The ulduar gimmic would get old real fast. Here give me 200 boss gimmics to trigger hm.

Not for me and my guild at the time, We cleared it week after week for a long time.

It was a gimmic that didnt survive because it was not a functional method. Thats why. Jow many times did xt get HM triggered on accident? How many times did yogg0 get fucked because Donald talked to a keeper.

It worked quite well and it gave variety to the bosses, My guild only triggered XT HM by accident once.

Stupid players will always be stupid, It doesn't change the fact that it was a whole lot more interesting than right clicking a player portrait and swapping difficulty.

The implementayion was clumsy.

Subjective

And not use fun useful.

I'm guessing you're trying to say it wasn't fun or useful? It's hard to tell, Either way that's subjective also.

[Deleted]

Would like to remove normal and make mythic 10man. Been playing since late beta and I think the most enjoyable raid for me was Firelands 10man heroic.

[Hctaz]

They'd remove LFR and Mythic before they remove Heroic. Heroic and Normal are 2 difficulty levels that's been around since the first expansion. Longer than LFR, longer than Mythic. It's not going anywhere.

Why is everybody so misinformed?

No. The two difficulties that have been around forever are Heroic and Mythic. Then they added LFR in at the very end of Cata and at the very end of MoP they added a mode called "Flexible" mode. When WoD came out and they wanted Normal to also be flexible, they removed the name "Flexible" and turned that difficulty into normal mode while also changing old normal to be called heroic and old heroic to be called mythic.

Also, until Wrath there was only one difficulty. Something closer to mythic than anything else. When Wrath came out the normal mode raids were easier for some reason and they ended up adding the heroic difficulty to give the challenge to the hardcore guilds again.

[primalmatter]

I suppose normal?

It honestly doesn't feel like it has a place anymore beyond giving a second shot at tier and trinkets for the week.

[anaxie]

Not for me and my guild at the time, We cleared it week after week for a long time.



It worked quite well and it gave variety to the bosses, My guild only triggered XT HM by accident once.

Stupid players will always be stupid, It doesn't change the fact that it was a whole lot more interesting than right clicking a player portrait and swapping difficulty.


Subjective


I'm guessing you're trying to say it wasn't fun or useful? It's hard to tell, Either way that's subjective also.

Accidently rriggered xt hm.... did you even fucki ng do uld hms? I highly doubt it so frankly your opinion is garbage as is every single persons opinion that didnt do ulduar hm to know how fucking boring the triggers were.

[PraisCthulhu]

I see no reason to remove any of them. They are all targeted at different audiences.

LFR - Solo players and alts
Normal - Groups of friends and/or family who want to play together for several hours at a time, but don't want to have to bench/leave people behind to clear things.
Heroic - Players who are serious about the game but lack either the time, skill, or numbers to do Mythic
Mythic - Hardcore players

The way I see it they have two tiers dedicated to casual players (LFR and Normal) and two tiers dedicated to more serious players (Heroic and Mythic).

If they absolutely wanted to go down to 3 tiers, I don't think just eliminating one of the current tiers would be the way to go, but to restructure it slightly.

What I would do is merge LFR and Normal into one tier. They would be the same difficulty, drop the same loot, etc. If you run to the instance and have a pre-made group, you can do the whole run in one go. If you find it via "LFR" you do the one wing you queued for and they can still stagger wing releases. These would share a loot lock out as they are not actually different difficulties, just two different ways of getting into the same difficulty. I would say keep the difficulty pretty similar to what LFR is right now. This has the effect of eliminating a raid difficulty to balance while still keeping current LFR and Normal raiders happy.

Then you would have Heroic and Mythic as your upper tiers and they would be virtually unchanged.

This system has a few other benefits. Because of the bigger gap in ilvl between "normal/LFR" and Heroic and Mythic, Heroic or Mythic raiders would feel less inclined to need to run this lower difficulty as the tier progressed. It is also one less lockout people would feel compelled to farm.

Things like Balance of Power that are meant to be raid rewards would be restricted to Heroic and above, returning some of the exclusivity of the raid rewards. Just as serious PvPers can attain rewards that casual PvPers cannot, so serious raiders would be able to attain things that casuals would not.

Again, I actually think the current system is fine, but if they felt compelled to change it, what I have proposed is what I hope they would do.

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I suppose normal?

It honestly doesn't feel like it has a place anymore beyond giving a second shot at tier and trinkets for the week.

It is where friends and family guilds go to raid. They can bring younger kids and adults who aren't very good at the game. You aren't as punished by mechanics but you still get to play with *just* your group and can do the whole raid in one go (unlike LFR).

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Heroic, obviously. There need to be two difficulties far away from each other.

I just don't get this mentality. Heroic is my favorite difficulty. I play with a small group. We don't have the numbers for mythic and we *like* being in our small group. We don't want to add more to raid Mythic. We don't want to join another group to raid Mythic. We are 100% happy not raiding mythic. But normal is a cake walk. We full cleared it week 1.

Heroic gives us a difficulty we can actually do some progression on instead of just blowing through it on the first lockout. Honestly, without a raid at the current Heroic level (no matter what the name is), I probably wouldn't even play this game. Normal gets boring too quick and I have 0 interest in playing with a larger group. I like playing in my little 10-15 man per week group. We'd just leave WoW for a game that did accommodate groups of our size at a difficulty we found fun.

If any difficulty were to be eliminated, I'd argue normal because the difficulty is too close to LFR.

[Halicia]

Accidently rriggered xt hm.... did you even fucki ng do uld hms? I highly doubt it so frankly your opinion is garbage as is every single persons opinion that didnt do ulduar hm to know how fucking boring the triggers were.

And entirely unsustainable. Its cool to have one boss every tier or two to have some sort of "3 drakes" option to them... but when you start trying to do every other boss like that, it just ends up recycling old mechanics because there's only so much you can do.

Personally, I *loathed* Flame Leviathan's hardmode trigger. it led to countless disagreements about which we'd do this week, and the trash was sooooo annoying.

[anaxie]

And entirely unsustainable. Its cool to have one boss every tier or two to have some sort of "3 drakes" option to them... but when you start trying to do every other boss like that, it just ends up recycling old mechanics because there's only so much you can do.

Personally, I *loathed* Flame Leviathan's hardmode trigger. it led to countless disagreements about which we'd do this week, and the trash was sooooo annoying.

And Frankly blizzard said themselves it was unsustainable and would get old fast.

Good Night thread game over.

[Revak]

All of them, set it to 1 set difficulty, remove the ridiculous endless grind reward system and build on said solid foundations proven in the past with a couple of newer Quality of Life elements with it.

Not exactly TBC, but almost like it. Certainly no more fucking LFR, normal, heroic, mythic. Just a setting, no name, it's name will be the raids name. Loot will actually have a progression path, and no BS with tiered levels on the same item, meaning you only fight 1 chance, and when you win, you progress, and not suffer eternally.

To be frank, I'm still quite wondering what was wrong with the TBC model....

This right here.

[anaxie]

And entirely unsustainable. Its cool to have one boss every tier or two to have some sort of "3 drakes" option to them... but when you start trying to do every other boss like that, it just ends up recycling old mechanics because there's only so much you can do.

Personally, I *loathed* Flame Leviathan's hardmode trigger. it led to countless disagreements about which we'd do this week, and the trash was sooooo annoying.

Sartharion. Leave them all alive!

Freya Leave them all alive!

MoP Fish Council! Kill Order ELITE MODE

Iron Council Kill Order HM

They couldn't even make it past Ulduar without reusing one of the HM Triggers.

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95% of the entire WoW community would not be able to raid.

Good Fuck em

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Normal and Heroic are kinda good tuned.

I remove Mythic, as it doesn't really add anything. It doesn't test a raider more than HC mode does, it only adds ridiculous mechanics and make the encounters more gear depending.

But if anything, I'd add a scaled raiding mode, with a set item level.

Lol can't be serious.

[Nikkaszal]

Back to the old setting of LFR, Normal (flex) and Heroic (locked)

There's no reason to have both Normal AND Heroic then then Mythic on top of that and LFR underneath. Normal and Heroic are far too similar to justify having both.

Current Normal should be cut, and current Heroic made into the Normal standard, then tuned appropriately.

[anaxie]

Mythic and LFR. Mythic can still realistically be done away with, but sadly LFR is here to stay. Removing it would anger way too many people. Optimally, I'd like a return to just normal and heroic.

Losing the Elite that actually support the game would hurt it more then garbage moutherbreathers losing their Boss textured Target Dummies.

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LFR, Heroic and Mythic. And go back to Ulduar system, where one instance covered the necessity for difficulty for EVERYONE in playerbase: bosses getting tougher the further you go (with many of the easier ones being skippable, so hardcore players don't need to bother), Hard Modes allowing you to try for a better loot on any given boss.

Maybe Ulduar nostalgia, but damn, that's some quality nostalgia.

You never did Ulduar Hardmodes. Guaranteed

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I chose LFR, and this is my reasoning.

Before Mythic, and before LFR back in BC there were 10man raid and 25man raid. The 10man raids were less item level than 25man raids. So you could say it was a stepping stone to more serious content. With the addition of ZA, there was now a way to get almost t6 quality gear from a 5man for the first time ever in the game. Awesome way to give good gear out, seeing as how there were a ton of bosses and it wasn't really a raid. The item level between t4 and t6 was so small, getting an upgrade from somewhere like ZA helped your dps so much, it was crazy. The reason Expansions like BC and Wotlk worked out so well, was that catching up with gear wasn't difficult, and the content was really exciting, the difference in power between the first raid and the last raid though huge, wasn't as bad as it is today number wise. When they introduced Hard Mode it was a small step to better gear, and when they came out with Heroic Mode, which was an entirely new lockout, it was also good, a nice way for the elite to progress on more difficult encounters. Which made having better gear enjoyable.

The release of LFR, not only stopped people from trying to get in raids such as normal and heroic, it made a lot of people settle for less. Yes I do believe that everyone should have the opportunity to raid with people. But, they could have easily just made normal easier, and Heroic Harder. Then they created Mythic, and it's tuned so nice, it's almost perfectly balanced for each raid sized, it's usually attuned so well that you really push yourself to clear content. The only problem is, the item level jump from each difficulty, has to be enough for it to be worth progressing on that difficulty. When you have 4 item level jumps per tier, when each jump is 15 item levels, you're going up 60 item levels per tier, then you take into account the fact it can titanforge another 15 item levels, that's a 75 item level difference, from the worst raid gear, compared to the best, of every single tier, by the end of the expansion you're a possible 220 item levels higher than when you started. The amount of stat increase with that much item level throughout just one expansion, has lead us to doing dps well over 5 million on cleave fights. The scaling is just running out of control...it should have never gotten this bad. If LFR were gone, it would slow it down dramatically. It would bring back the essential Easy, Normal, Hard Difficulties, we don't need welfare loot, we need better players, and the game is flooded with new players with the mindset I can get carried and pay for anything, and LFR for my legendaries. It makes the pug experience a nightmare, and anyone not in a good guild, it makes them deter from the game entirely.

And ZA mopped the floor with Normies just like SSC.

Good Luck beating Zul'Jin and co without skill or oragnized raid group.

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Mythic.

Re-balance normal and heroic back to there mop levels and be rid of mythic entitlement once and for all

So back to Heroic Entitlement?

Do you even understand wtf you are talking about? I doubt you do

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simple - mythic - nearly non-used mode bringing in nothing but toxicity and elitism to game.

What do the other modes bring other than entitled unskilled players?
Also you can't ax the original raid difficulty. nice try.

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Mythic because hardly anyone does mythic. LFR/Normal/Heroic would be ideal. 4 difficulties is dumb. LFR should be dirt easy like it is. Normal should be slight harder than current normal. Heroic should be slightly harder than current Heroic. If current Mythic had higher participation I wouldn't suggest removing it.

Low participation doesn't mean much when the only requirments to do LFR and Normal is ~ Have a max level character and a pulse and Mythic requirment is actually know how to play the game which I can assure you the most of the people playing I'm surprised can even turn on their PC

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You guys do realize that if they removed Mythic Heroic would be cleared in the first hour it released. After EM was criticized for being too easy TOV and NH have had the difficulty scale turned up to 11. Blizzard doesn't want us to just blow through the content.

Cleared in the first hour by current day rank 5000 guilds because this game would sink faster than the TORtanic if they removed the games only redeeming feature aka challenging raid content.

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Not the first reset, the first hour. I think you underestimate how easy heroic is for a lot of people. Making the endgame heroic is silly at most it took 1-2 weeks to kill Gul'dan for most average mythic guilds. The tier can't end it a week for average guilds.

Naxx Lvl 80 without Sartharion 3D. JAJAJAJA

Here is a nice quote for how big a joke his suggestion would be
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ontent-cleared!

Kel'thuzad, Sartharion, and Malygos world first kill by TwentyFifthNovember
You might remember this news from a few days ago, most of the members from the top PvE guilds Nihilum and SK-Gaming merged in a single guild temporarily called TwentyFifthNovember.

The question is, how much time will it take to see them getting world first kills on raid bosses ? Easy, about 65 Hours and 30 minutes. Wrath of the Lich King was activated on european servers at 22:00 CEST and TwentyFifthNovember killed Kel'thuzad today at 15:30 CEST, and they also killed Sartharion the Onyx Guardian before that. Only Malygos was left and he just died at 18:45 CEST.

Yes we're talking about 25 man raid instances, it took them less than 3 days (68 Hours and 30 minutes) to get enough people to build a decent raid and down these bosses, it looks like the competition won't be easy in the future. It also means that they already cleared all the PvE content in Wrath of the Lich King and will have to wait for the next content patch 3.1 to have a chance to explore the Ulduar Raid instance.

Below is a small statement from their site.

We are proud to declare that all WOTLK PVE raid content has now been cleared. This is both a moment of triumph and a cause for concern. The question in all our minds right now is if we could do this, how soon until the rest of the top guilds in the world clear all the raid content that WOTLK has to offer? Did Blizzard miscalculated in the tuning of these encounters? Or is this Blizzard folding under the weight of a large casual player base that demands to be on equal footing with end-game raiders?

[Softbottom]

Losing the Elite that actually support the game would hurt it more then garbage moutherbreathers losing their Boss textured Target Dummies.

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You never did Ulduar Hardmodes. Guaranteed

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And ZA mopped the floor with Normies just like SSC.

Good Luck beating Zul'Jin and co without skill or oragnized raid group.

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So back to Heroic Entitlement?

Do you even understand wtf you are talking about? I doubt you do

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What do the other modes bring other than entitled unskilled players?
Also you can't ax the original raid difficulty. nice try.

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Low participation doesn't mean much when the only requirments to do LFR and Normal is ~ Have a max level character and a pulse and Mythic requirment is actually know how to play the game which I can assure you the most of the people playing I'm surprised can even turn on their PC

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Cleared in the first hour by current day rank 5000 guilds because this game would sink faster than the TORtanic if they removed the games only redeeming feature aka challenging raid content.

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Naxx Lvl 80 without Sartharion 3D. JAJAJAJA

Here is a nice quote for how big a joke his suggestion would be
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ontent-cleared!

You seem to have a hard on for being elite. Congratulations on being part of that 1%

[flepser]

All of them, set it to 1 set difficulty, remove the ridiculous endless grind reward system and build on said solid foundations proven in the past with a couple of newer Quality of Life elements with it.

Not exactly TBC, but almost like it. Certainly no more fucking LFR, normal, heroic, mythic. Just a setting, no name, it's name will be the raids name. Loot will actually have a progression path, and no BS with tiered levels on the same item, meaning you only fight 1 chance, and when you win, you progress, and not suffer eternally.

To be frank, I'm still quite wondering what was wrong with the TBC model....

Couldn't have said it better