[Movie/TV/Comic] Marvel Cinematic Universe: A place to talk all things Marvel

[Gallahadd]

Don't like Thor's look at all, but Hela looks cool. Valkyrie I am not happy with, for similar reasons to my rant about culture and changing story above.

They're basing Thor's look off of his current appearance in the Unworthy Thor run (which is awesome, btw). I think all three characters look great and personally, this is getting me crazy hyped for the film.

As for the Iron Fist stuff... I just... I don't even know where to begin with this level of stupidity. I understand why people complain when a character is cast as a race other than they are in the source material, especially when it's a case like The Ancient One being recast as a white woman, or the Gods of Egypt film where the whole Egyption Pantheon was cast as white guys...

But complaining that a character is cast as the same race as they are in the source material, because you THINK that they should be cast as something else, even though doing so would most likely result in the SAME people complaining that the character is a stereotypical "Asian Kung Fu Master" trope?

Utter stupidity, I was hoping that we'd leave this "Everything is offensive" mentalility behind us...

[Dhrizzle]

Couple of points people seem to have missed.

Iron Fist is an example of the "mighty whitey" trope, where a white man comes to another culture and proves themselves better at an activity than the native practitioners. Not harmful or bad in itself, but coming hot on the heals of Dr. Strange it seems like Marvel are overloading on their "rich white men are better at Eastern mysticism than Eastern people" quota at the moment.

Marvel's reason why Iron Fist had to be a white guy didn't really fly, they claimed it was so he would be an outsider, but Asian-Americans already feel like outsiders in Asian countries because, despite superficial appearances, they don't (in general) have much of a better understanding of the language and culture than any other American.

I think there's also a sense of disappointment that Marvel Studios isn't following the comics where it comes to a diverse set of characters. So far of the 14 MCU movies released 10 have featured a white-male lead (3xIron Man, 1xHulk, 2xThor, 2xCaptain America, 1xAnt Man, 1x Dr. Strange,) 2 have featured a predominantly white-male cast with slight female representation (2xAvengers) and 1 has a relatively diverse cast but centers around 2 white male leads (Civil War.) The most racially diverse cast is probably in GotG, but everyone besides the white-male leader is either painted alien colour or voicing a CGI character. The first MCU movie with a non-white lead will be the 18th film, released in 2018, 10 years after the first Iron Man. The first female lead will be in the 21st movie, released 2019.

On the TV and Netflix side of things the MCU is doing better as far as diversity goes; Jessica Jones has a female lead and was generally applauded for the way it portrayed Jessica as a rape victim/survivor suffering from PTSD, Luke Cage has a black lead and portrays both positives and negatives of African-American culture in Harlem, and even though Daredevil has a white-male lead it's slightly less typical due to the focus on his Catholic faith. I think it's the success of these characters that make people disappointed with the "mighty-whitey" trope, even though it remains true to the original character.

Overall I think it would have been a good move to make Danny Rand an Asian-American, to get rid of the trope that can easily stumble into racism as well as giving Asian-Americans some representation in the MCU. That said I don't think it's necessarily bad to keep Danny as he is in the comics, it won't spoil my enjoyment of the series, but I do think it was a chance to do something better.

[Deleted]

Its almost as if content produced in a majority white country will have a majority white cast.

[Kelimbror]

Marvel's reason why Iron Fist had to be a white guy didn't really fly, they claimed it was so he would be an outsider, but Asian-Americans already feel like outsiders in Asian countries because, despite superficial appearances, they don't (in general) have much of a better understanding of the language and culture than any other American.

Did you honestly just say that Asian people already feel like 'enough of' outsiders b/c they aren't Asian enough? Dear god. You are what's wrong with these types of conversations. I feel like an outsider in American culture as an American white male...doesn't really mean shit.

That being said, people actually forget that part of the reason Danny is white and it has worked out is because Danny + Luke combine two different cultural backgrounds into something important. Their team up is symbolic of white and black culture meshing together. But hey, let's forgo addressing the largest racial stigma in America (where these stories are set) because it's more progressive to somehow retrograde an asian american as an asian stereotype.

I just want to flip tables all day when people even begin to talk about this with how ignorant they are.

[Kalcheus]

Did you honestly just say that Asian people already feel like 'enough of' outsiders b/c they aren't Asian enough? Dear god. You are what's wrong with these types of conversations. I feel like an outsider in American culture as an American white male...doesn't really mean shit.

I think his point was that a Japanese person would feel just as much fish-out-of-water to be in Nepal as an American would. All Asian countries are not homogeneous with each other, and China is almost as much of a melting pot as the US is.

[Kelimbror]

I think his point was that a Japanese person would feel just as much fish-out-of-water to be in Nepal as an American would. All Asian countries are not homogeneous with each other, and China is almost as much of a melting pot as the US is.

They literally said an 'Asian American' and didn't address the variance in different Asian cultures. I don't really think that was the intended point. And would it really be compelling to show 'oh wow, my eastern culture is so different than your eastern culture'? I agree, but they actually aren't radically different as it relates to mysticism and martial arts, which is the fundamental focus of the story.

My whole point is that doing anything other than what it was and specifically talking about it like this is just ridiculous as a whole.

[Dhrizzle]

Did you honestly just say that Asian people already feel like 'enough of' outsiders b/c they aren't Asian enough? Dear god. You are what's wrong with these types of conversations. I feel like an outsider in American culture as an American white male...doesn't really mean shit.

Did you not understand what I said? Marvel said that Danny Rand needed to be white because it made him an outsider in Asia. Asian-Americans replied that actually they feel like outsiders in Asia because they're seen as Americans first, so the reason Marvel gave was bogus. If you think the perspectives of other people is "what's wrong with these types of conversations" then I suggest maybe the problem is you.

That being said, people actually forget that part of the reason Danny is white and it has worked out is because Danny + Luke combine two different cultural backgrounds into something important. Their team up is symbolic of white and black culture meshing together. But hey, let's forgo addressing the largest racial stigma in America (where these stories are set) because it's more progressive to somehow retrograde an asian american as an asian stereotype.

Yeah, and it's not like the same idea of cultures coming together could be explored on Netflix with the white Catholic man and the white woman, could it? I guess the idea of the Defenders being made up of white-, African- and Asian-Americans coming together is too much cultural meshing for you?

I just want to flip tables all day when people even begin to talk about this with how ignorant they are.

Gosh, how dare people feel differently about things. No wonder you're so mad.

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They literally said an 'Asian American' and didn't address the variance in different Asian cultures. I don't really think that was the intended point. And would it really be compelling to show 'oh wow, my eastern culture is so different than your eastern culture'? I agree, but they actually aren't radically different as it relates to mysticism and martial arts, which is the fundamental focus of the story.

My whole point is that doing anything other than what it was and specifically talking about it like this is just ridiculous as a whole.

You're right, I am saying that Asian-Americans would feel as much an outsider in an Asian country as a white-American, because they come from America and are not used to the culture and language of the Asian country. Your assertion that they would be fine just because they're Asian is odd to say the least.

[Kelimbror]

Your assertion that they would be fine just because they're Asian is odd to say the least.

Sorry, but if you can't be bothered to read entire posts there's no fruitful conversation to be had.

In any case, this 'unknown Asian community' that is speaking directly to Marvel, which is a company, in and of itself is weird to talk about in the way you are speaking. To go further, it screams a lot of 'what about me' syndrome and you responding with more about further highlights that you didn't really read my post entirely.

The entire dialogue is hypocritical to the extreme, as is your depiction of it. It's needless and ignorant and is circular conversation going back to saying there should just be new stories with people of diversity. Additionally, feeling like you need to be represented as a minority starts to get a bit onerous and beyond the purpose of art. People make art to satisfy the stories they feel are important. If it's that important to 'Asian-American community #1', then they should be looking to make stories about themselves instead of inserting themselves in stories that already exist.

That's sorta how self representation works. And again, I feel that it's valid to want that, but everyone is going about it the wrong way. It's selfish. What's next, why didn't Marvel make Captain America a latino, transgender, gay woman so that those that identify that way can feel empowered? If you don't understand why that embellished question is relevant, again, not worth the conversation.

[Jotaux]

Couple of points people seem to have missed.

Iron Fist is an example of the "mighty whitey" trope, where a white man comes to another culture and proves themselves better at an activity than the native practitioners. Not harmful or bad in itself, but coming hot on the heals of Dr. Strange it seems like Marvel are overloading on their "rich white men are better at Eastern mysticism than Eastern people" quota at the moment.

Marvel's reason why Iron Fist had to be a white guy didn't really fly, they claimed it was so he would be an outsider, but Asian-Americans already feel like outsiders in Asian countries because, despite superficial appearances, they don't (in general) have much of a better understanding of the language and culture than any other American.

I think there's also a sense of disappointment that Marvel Studios isn't following the comics where it comes to a diverse set of characters. So far of the 14 MCU movies released 10 have featured a white-male lead (3xIron Man, 1xHulk, 2xThor, 2xCaptain America, 1xAnt Man, 1x Dr. Strange,) 2 have featured a predominantly white-male cast with slight female representation (2xAvengers) and 1 has a relatively diverse cast but centers around 2 white male leads (Civil War.) The most racially diverse cast is probably in GotG, but everyone besides the white-male leader is either painted alien colour or voicing a CGI character. The first MCU movie with a non-white lead will be the 18th film, released in 2018, 10 years after the first Iron Man. The first female lead will be in the 21st movie, released 2019.

On the TV and Netflix side of things the MCU is doing better as far as diversity goes; Jessica Jones has a female lead and was generally applauded for the way it portrayed Jessica as a rape victim/survivor suffering from PTSD, Luke Cage has a black lead and portrays both positives and negatives of African-American culture in Harlem, and even though Daredevil has a white-male lead it's slightly less typical due to the focus on his Catholic faith. I think it's the success of these characters that make people disappointed with the "mighty-whitey" trope, even though it remains true to the original character.

Overall I think it would have been a good move to make Danny Rand an Asian-American, to get rid of the trope that can easily stumble into racism as well as giving Asian-Americans some representation in the MCU. That said I don't think it's necessarily bad to keep Danny as he is in the comics, it won't spoil my enjoyment of the series, but I do think it was a chance to do something better.

Or they could just leave everyone as they are in the comics and focus on good story telling and characterization, something the MCU netflix series has been fantastic at. I would hope that entertainment value, not racism nor sexism, is why people are looking forward to other Marvel properties like Black Panther. Though after reading this I start to wonder.

[Gallahadd]

Can we take a moment off from debating the rights and wrongs of casting characters to be comic accurate, and instead appreciate how EPIC the still from Thor look?

I mean...

DAMN.

So hype.

JUST
LOOK
AT
THEM!

Visually, this is easily going to be the best Thor yet.

LOVING Thor's "Unworthy" outfit, plus... He's using a different weapon in each picture, and I'm 1000% okay with that. People need to realise his fighting skills are legit.

[Zeek Daniels]

Couple of points people seem to have missed.

Iron Fist is an example of the "mighty whitey" trope, where a white man comes to another culture and proves themselves better at an activity than the native practitioners. Not harmful or bad in itself, but coming hot on the heals of Dr. Strange it seems like Marvel are overloading on their "rich white men are better at Eastern mysticism than Eastern people" quota at the moment.

The issue here isnt mighty whitey. The reason Ironfist is white is because back when the comics started the majority of readers are white. Having someone that seems familier and they can relate to is how copies are sold, especially in those times where comic artists are barely making ends meat. And theres nothing wrong with that. Just like theres nothing wrong with a majority of movies in America being about white people. The majority of America is white and thats who the majority of the consumers are.

Its like going to the chinese film market and asking them why africans arent represented in film more.

Now to counter that Film is becoming a more global market but theres no statistics to suggest that a more diverse film equals more money. Im sure from an actors perspective you care less about the movie being diverse for diversities sake and more about the financial opportunity you think it will provide.

[Arrowstormen]

The issue here isnt mighty whitey. The reason Ironfist is white is because back when the comics started the majority of readers are white. Having someone that seems familier and they can relate to is how copies are sold, especially in those times where comic artists are barely making ends meat. And theres nothing wrong with that. Just like theres nothing wrong with a majority of movies in America being about white people. The majority of America is white and thats who the majority of the consumers are.

Its like going to the chinese film market and asking them why africans arent represented in film more.

Now to counter that Film is becoming a more global market but theres no statistics to suggest that a more diverse film equals more money. Im sure from an actors perspective you care less about the movie being diverse for diversities sake and more about the financial opportunity you think it will provide.

Why are you mentioning the actors? Of course they just care about getting paid.

Having looked at a few reviews, I think people here are focusing on the parts where they mention the cultural and racial points like it's the only criticisms, when it seems like the main problem is that it is apparently just plain boring.

[Deleted]

Why are you mentioning the actors? Of course they just care about getting paid.

Having looked at a few reviews, I think people here are focusing on the parts where they mention the cultural and racial points like it's the only criticisms, when it seems like the main problem is that it is apparently just plain boring.

Yeah I had a feeling it would end up being boring. Jessica Jones and Luke Cage had a lot of filler episodes imo, they could have easily been rolled into a single series, and I think Iron Fist could probably have been the Defenders series, just do it from his perspective.

Daredevil Season 1 and 2 were solid because of great additional characters, with the exception of Tennant in JJ, I can't think of a single memorable character in JJ or LC that didn't orginate in DD.

[Stormcall]

Why are you mentioning the actors? Of course they just care about getting paid.

Having looked at a few reviews, I think people here are focusing on the parts where they mention the cultural and racial points like it's the only criticisms, when it seems like the main problem is that it is apparently just plain boring.

The fight scenes are what worries me. I mean, Iron Fist is supposed to be one of the greatest hand to hand fighters in the Marvel Universe. But based on the clips I've seen, he looks like...a guy who works out regularly, and takes a karate class every weekend or two with Sensei Tom. I mean, yeah, I get that this guy isn't a real life martial artist so I'm not expecting The Raid level fight scenes here, but if Chris Evans, Sebastian Stan, Charlie Cox, etc can put in the work and effort to at least put on a respectable fight scene I dunno why this dude can't...hell, based on the clips I've seen, it looks like he'd lose a hand to hand match to Dr. Strange!

[Kalcheus]

Saw this on Imgur, not sure if it's new or not

[Arrowstormen]

Saw this on Imgur, not sure if it's new or not

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/MsUnTIy.jpg[MG]

He mentioned it some time ago in an interview, but he was probably well aware that it would never happen, so I'm not sure how serious he was about it. I'm also not sure Marvel Studios would want him to play Wolverine in an Avengers movie.

[Immitis]

one thing is for sure. if marvel ever does somehow get x-men back it will probably be the first time we see them in their traditional costumes

[Gemini Soul]

One of the main problems i have with race switching from comics to movies for PR/PC is when they do a piss poor job of it.

A perfect example is the newer FF4 movie, they cast a black Johnny Storm which is fine BUT they should of done the same for Susan and kept them as true brother and sister. Then the actor they got to play Johnny Storm who is supposed to be the youngest on the team looks like the oldest on the team.


Seen the preview for Iron Fist and it does look interesting, will BingeFlix it when it comes out.

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one thing is for sure. if marvel ever does somehow get x-men back it will probably be the first time we see them in their traditional costumes

It's all about the money and which studio gets how much, lets be honest if money wasn't the problem their collective lawyers would of made it happen contract wise.

[Arrowstormen]

It's all about the money and which studio gets how much, lets be honest if money wasn't the problem their collective lawyers would of made it happen contract wise.

If money wasn't the problem, why would anyone bother to do anything?

[BloodyAngel12]

Sam Jackson might of just let something slip.
http://www.gamesradar.com/samuel-l-j...gn=buffer_tffb