Mafia 80: The Lost Village

[Largehorn]

Ah, I see. That's fair, though it's possible Danner went with uneven scum teams again.

What if Crissi was not blocked last night? How would that affect your read of the situation?

Well that is an interesting question. We then couldn't know for sure if they had another teammate, which throws everything off. It would still be unlikely that we have two full scum teams of 3 though since we would be right back in the scenario we already discussed.

Which means we would have to look at uneven teams or the possibility of teams of 2.

Let's look at the second option first:

If Crissi wasn't blocked last night, then she killed. Lynching her would remove her team completely from the game and with it their night kill.

Lynching Catta won't remove that team's night kill as Catta's teammate can still perform it. We have two to deal with at night.

Now looking at uneven teams:

Crissi wasn't blocked and has a teammate, lynching Crissi isn't going to remove the night kill. But lynching Catta isn't going to either. Unless the scum break down is 3v1v1vTown.

So basically, if Crissi wasn't blocked, town's only chance is to still lynch her, because if the other situations are true, we're fucked anyway.

My only concerns were a) is it a true definition of ninja modified b) palawin said "watch/track/etc" and the etc had me question, including if pala was summarizing the rolecard so as to not direct quote. Also a tiny voice says a SK may have things hidden from an exposed rolecard via "rolecop"

I mean it's possible that the SK has something hidden from the Rolecop, but I would be surprised if they would get a hidden modifier on top of that. The question becomes if you think that Catta has the ability to kill through protects/blocks and has basically been apart of double taps most of the game. I don't think that's very likely, but admittedly I didn't think a single JK would be able to prevent nearly every night kill for 3 nights either...

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I mean it's possible that the SK has something hidden from the Rolecop, but I would be surprised if they would get a hidden modifier on top of that. The question becomes if you think that Catta has the ability to kill through protects/blocks and has basically been apart of double taps most of the game. I don't think that's very likely, but admittedly I didn't think a single JK would be able to prevent nearly every night kill for 3 nights either...

I don't think that was as clear as I wanted it to be so let me try again:

I mean it's possible that the SK has something hidden about their rolecard from the Rolecop, but I would be surprised if they would have a hidden modifier on top of the ability to also have the ninja one. The question becomes if you think that Catta has the ability to kill through protects/blocks and has basically been apart of double taps most of the game.

I don't think that's very likely, but admittedly I didn't think a single JK would be able to prevent every night kill for 3 nights either...

[Razamith]

Most of my logic is pointing toward mafia + sk, and i can concur with ret the numbers would likely be 3/4 vs 1 (though cant rule out a +1 but not sure our powers would be enough for 1/3 unless crosskills were expected/planned). However its fair to consider the alternatives of teams such as 2v2 (heavy power likely), 3v2 (similar to MMMM as pointed out), 3v3 (traditional/limited power). i believe the former two more likely with hider claim, watcher-self-thingy claimed, and ninja killer claimed on behalf of rolecop. Using the spans i have here would be my updated list:
S1: Most likely crackle/crissi: large > senna >> listo > pala/ret
S2: Most likely catta: senna > ret > listo >= large > pala
Put me where you will on each. I've more than made my case for S1, and i had some callouts of catta but mostly only started D3, where they were prevalent but relatively few/timing to be considered. If i was to attempt to place myself i'd put me equal to listo on S1 and above/equal/below ret on S2 (depending how much you weigh my catta callouts)

For catta team discussion, senna i look at #452 where wanted to look at many but ended up doing only "first 3" [after doing me ::giggity::] all which happen to be scum but heavy town read on catta. For ret the biggest thing that scares me about him is claiming multiple abilities, where i haven't heard anyone else like that. That could be the 3v2 scenario someone "stronger" on the smaller team. I like how actively he's been hunting (except our arguments) but hasn't really even mentioned catta before today in any real context. Listo and onward i'm doubting.

[Reticence]

For ret the biggest thing that scares me about him is claiming multiple abilities, where i haven't heard anyone else like that.

I can't deny that this is a pretty fair point, given that we haven't seen many role cards. Monkz technically had multiple abilities, but one kind of led into the other, so I'm not sure how much that really counts.

The most reasonable explanation is that both of my starting abilities are very attention-grabbing. The redirect has potential anti-town ramifications and connotations, and that it alerts my target exacerbates that even further. The other one, as I mentioned on D2, results in Danner putting something in the dawn post about me -- specifically, that I did not kill one of the players who have been murdered. This explanation also makes sense (from my perspective, anyway), because the (assumed) joke ability I was just given is pretty much a global heckle to all living and dead players -- I was really tempted to use it for the lulz, but I think the game is too close for me to afford spending a night action doing so.

Either way, loud and authoritative is kind of the trend, here. It's possible that I was expected to draw a lot of attention from both town and scum, or even do nothing -- after all, whimsically redirecting people is not a very wise play for a townie, and I'm not convinced that people wouldn't see the results of the second ability and assume it was something scum would have. Even if it's guaranteed to be the truth because it's mod-confirmed, not being the player responsible for killing someone doesn't mean you're not on a team with the person who is, so it's definitely something that I could see being used to manipulate the day-thread with misleading truths.

This has been a large part of why I've been so forthcoming, honestly. If I were you, I'd be wary of my role, too, but I'd be even more wary of someone trying to hide it.

All of that aside, I really like this post from you, Raza.

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Claim: Loud

[listo95]

So I am gonna just say that I know what Senna's role is since they claimed to me shortly after the thread got opened. Of course I'm still not 100% about that claim due to what it entailed. But I do consider me being alive a slight positive on Senna since they could have killed me and no one would have known they were my neighbor. On Large I would have to say its unlikely he is aligned with Catta.

[Largehorn]

We've still got stuff to discuss today, but I believe this is definitely the best course:

Vote: Crissi

Also I want to get this out there before I forget....

Claim: Depressed

[Reticence]

@PalawinFC

I can't be certain, but I think I was blocked again, last night.

[Largehorn]

@PalawinFC

I think I was blocked again, last night.

What makes you think that?

[Reticence]

What makes you think that?

Just a hunch, partly based on not being asked about it.

@Senna1251, did you get a command from me, last night?

[Largehorn]

Just a hunch, partly based on not being asked about it.

@Senna1251, did you get a command from me, last night?

Hrmmmmm that's interesting.

Do you mind sharing why you targeted Senna last night?

[Senna1251]

Just a hunch, partly based on not being asked about it.

@Senna1251, did you get a command from me, last night?

No I have not, as far as I'm aware. I also haven't really looked into the Large/Catta interactions yet, I haven't had the time.

I probably shouldn't have signed up for this game, I really don't have the time I thought I would have. I'm embarrassed about the level of activity I've had, but it seems like I don't have any original thoughts that Palawin or Ret haven't already come up with. I'm aware that I have been quite useless.

[Reticence]

No I have not, as far as I'm aware. I also haven't really looked into the Large/Catta interactions yet, I haven't had the time.

I probably shouldn't have signed up for this game, I really don't have the time I thought I would have. I'm embarrassed about the level of activity I've had, but it seems like I don't have any original thoughts that Palawin or Ret haven't already come up with. I'm aware that I have been quite useless.

Hm. Okay.

Also, meh. Your activity level's fine, just a little quieter than I'm used to.

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Hrmmmmm that's interesting.

Do you mind sharing why you targeted Senna last night?

Senna would have been a viable target for many of the same reasons Crissi was, namely my lack of trust and being peripheral during the day making her a good candidate for carrying out kills.

[Largehorn]

No I have not, as far as I'm aware.

Hm. Okay.

Well if you really targeted Senna last night there is another redirect out there. Because I ended up being who got your message...

[Reticence]

Well if you really targeted Senna last night there is another redirect out there. Because I ended up being who got your message...

Alright. No, I targeted you.

Sorry about that. I had a theory I was pursuing, and I wasn't sure if I trusted you to answer directly.

[Largehorn]

Alright. No, I targeted you.

Sorry about that. I had a theory I was pursuing, and I wasn't sure if I trusted you to answer directly.

That's fair I guess... I'm glad everything I thought I had figured out wasn't just going to end up going up in smoke because of another redirect.

[PalawinFC]

Hm ok. That interaction was really helpful.
Who did you redirect largehorn to?

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You know whatever large's is but is that telling you anything about alignment or just the pattern theory?

It doesn't tell me anything about alignment. The more I think about the pattern theory the more I think it can't be true. I just think danner wouldn't do that. In fact, hes more likely to mix it up to try and trap me.

I know question wasn't to me but: You said there are cases where its "you get the ninja modifier and can't be watched tracked etc." -- is there any risk it goes through blocks or whatnot? If so I always lean toward eliminating a kill first even if it delays/risks and additional night action elsewhere (unless we think that action has particular undue danger). If not it doesn't likely matter.

It literally says etc in the wording I received. I didn't summarise it. I think there is at least a risk that he can't be targeted. Although I was able to target him... Was either Xanjori or Graeham the lowest poster yesterday?

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I'm not sure where the recruitment idea came from, but I'm actually of the mind that this has more to do with sanity.

You mentioned sanity before. I don't have anything like that. Whats sanity and does anyone else have it?

No? Why?

Xanjori mentioned a hat when his role card changed.

I agree with most of what you've said, but you seem to be overlooking the possibility that this second roleblocker is aligned with Catta.

I guess he could be. Sk and Rb team seems very very strong compared to hider and self watcher team. Unless you think its 2v3vtown.

[Reticence]

That's fair I guess... I'm glad everything I thought I had figured out wasn't just going to end up going up in smoke because of another redirect.

That would be pretty awful.

Hm ok. That interaction was really helpful.
Who did you redirect largehorn to?

Before I answer that, I am actually interested in having Largehorn claim. Thoughts?

It literally says etc in the wording I received. I didn't summarise it. I think there is at least a risk that he can't be targeted. Although I was able to target him... Was either Xanjori or Graeham the lowest poster yesterday?

Graeham and Rixis are both still above Senna.

[Largehorn]

You mentioned sanity before. I don't have anything like that. Whats sanity and does anyone else have it?

Going to go out on a limb here and tell you to check the upper right hand corner of your rolecard...

[PalawinFC]

My only concerns were a) is it a true definition of ninja modified b) palawin said "watch/track/etc" and the etc had me question, including if pala was summarizing the rolecard so as to not direct quote. Also a tiny voice says a SK may have things hidden from an exposed rolecard via "rolecop"

It just says watched tracked etc.

I don't get the full role card, only their ability. I was quite surprised to even get the bpv thing. I would not be surprised if there's more info about his role I didn't get.

Largehorn, you're analysis of their kill seems to assume that individual mafies players makes the kill taking in turns. I think Crissi was lying about that. I think any of them can choose to make the kill on any night.

This is also one of the reasons why I think Catta is on his own, not in a team :
At the very start of the game, my own role card says that I can analyse people and get their ability, however it says that some players may also have group abilities, e.g. mafia factional kill, which I will not determine.

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Going to go out on a limb here and tell you to check the upper right hand corner of your rolecard...

Hmm oh. That's weird.

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Before I answer that, I am actually interested in having Largehorn claim. Thoughts?

I can't see much benefit to town of keeping his role secret any longer. I don't think it will have much impact on scum information or kill decision (assuming he's not scum).

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In fact, I think we should get the outstanding claims before the medical examiner flips.

[Reticence]

You mentioned sanity before. I don't have anything like that. Whats sanity and does anyone else have it?

It's this little value in the top right of my original role card that is completely unexplained. Rixis had it as well.

Xanjori mentioned a hat when his role card changed.

Oh. I must have missed that, but no, I didn't see anything like that.

I guess he could be. Sk and Rb team seems very very strong compared to hider and self watcher team. Unless you think its 2v3vtown.

I'm not really sold on any one scenario over the others, just trying to make sure nothing gets overlooked at this point.

[PalawinFC]

I can't believe I didn't see the sanity thing. Oops.

Must be because I'm
Claim nearsighted

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So I am gonna just say that I know what Senna's role is since they claimed to me shortly after the thread got opened. Of course I'm still not 100% about that claim due to what it entailed. But I do consider me being alive a slight positive on Senna since they could have killed me and no one would have known they were my neighbor. On Large I would have to say its unlikely he is aligned with Catta.

How long ago did he claim to you?