$15 an Hour Pay Advocates Meet Market Reality

[Sunseeker]

Paying people less won't prevent automation. It'll just make people even more dependent on government handouts. The cost of living does not decease because your fry cook makes less too. (except when it does and it drive out businesses and jobs and devalues the area)

[Glorious Leader]

It's fucking nuts. Having been raised in an upper middle class household, I don't look at them and see peers or even almost peers. I see people who may as well be dressed in rags and scrounging in dumpsters for their next meal. Whatever difference they believe exists between them and whoever it is that below them may as well not exist from where I sit. They are as far beneath me as I no doubt am below the upper class.

The problem with this is that for any chance of instituting even the most reasonable measures to insure some kind of decent future for everyone who isnt mega wealthy youll need solidarity. Dont see that happening when you view them as such.

[zenkai]

You don't think a robot can be programmed to build other robots?

Of course they can, but they don't design other robots.

[gyrados]

If you think the removal of minimum wage laws will prevent automation, I've got some bad news for you.

pretty much this regardless if they raise or lower minimum wage automation is coming and this is just the start basically get use to worshipping the robotic overlords

[xGLxAnubis]

Automation should never be an argument against requiring livable wages. Nor should people losing jobs ever be an argument against automation.

These two things don't have to be mutually exclusive. We can live in an era of rampant automation AND supplying livable conditions for all of humanity. In fact, automation SUPPORTS allowing all of humanity to have livable and comfortable conditions.

[Zmaniac17]

Automation should never be an argument against requiring livable wages. Nor should people losing jobs ever be an argument against automation.

These two things don't have to be mutually exclusive. We can live in an era of rampant automation AND supplying livable conditions for all of humanity. In fact, automation SUPPORTS allowing all of humanity to have livable and comfortable conditions.

100% agree. If done right automation benefits everyone. The problem is we hold a lot antiquated ideas about how businesses and the economy should be organized. Automation will allow for massive surplus production that can benefit everyone or only the people who own the machines. It's up to us to decide how that goes.

Also the speed at which this is moving is all the more reason to really push space exploration. We're gonna need a lot of extra resources very soon. Once we are no longer limited by dwindling fossil fuel production the sky is literally the limit.

[Solarflash]

Smart guy on UBI

https://youtu.be/C766f_DFNwI

A panel talking about the the age of automation

https://youtu.be/KCPTMXFNT9I

You guys think that menial labor is the only target of automation. High skill jobs are just as easy to automate.

[Magicpot]

100% agree. If done right automation benefits everyone. The problem is we hold a lot antiquated ideas about how businesses and the economy should be organized. Automation will allow for massive surplus production that can benefit everyone or only the people who own the machines. It's up to us to decide how that goes.

Also the speed at which this is moving is all the more reason to really push space exploration. We're gonna need a lot of extra resources very soon. Once we are no longer limited by dwindling fossil fuel production the sky is literally the limit.

Not like we could stop the wealthy.

Private armies, spying on everyone, combat drones.

We don't have the means anymore to overthrow the wealthy in a scenario similar to the french revolution.

They're stopping to need us quickly.

[melodramocracy]

Good. The fewer people we have gainfully employed, the better. Bring on automation as fast as possible please.

[I Push Buttons]

Smart guy on UBI

https://youtu.be/C766f_DFNwI

While I am in favor of a UBI, its a lot more complicated than that guy lays out.

"Just replace the welfare state with UBI and its all good!"

Not really. What do you do when large portions of the population inevitably squander their allotment? Some guy takes his free money, gambles it all away, wastes it on something, etc... Now he has nothing and there is no welfare state... Then we are right back where we started.

The whole point of the discussion of UBI is to allow people to subsist, even and especially if they don't or can't work, if they have nothing, etc... Obviously we can't and won't just let people die because they waste their allotment.

Obviously people would be against the government telling you how to spend your free money, but it may inevitably come to that, at least partially, unless we are ok with allowing people who squander their UBI to die.

[Cthulhu 2020]

40 years ago or so it was a different picture. Unions were strong, parliaments had all the power' working people were receiving wage increases and making demands of employers and the gap between the highest paid ceo and the lowest worker was incredibke small relative to today. The rich decided that was too good so they funded what amounted to a market friendly revolution.

It's tragic, really. Reagan spurred on this idea that we need to dismantle worker rights and unions, and let businesses "fix" the economy. At the time there was nothing to fix, America was doing great, and there was no reason to believe that we should have actually changed anything.

But the top-down propaganda began, with lobbying to convince the poorly educated that they needed to give the wealthy more and more and more money in hopes that it would trickle down.

The ultimate tragedy though, is that these same people were crying that Hillary hated wages, hated jobs, hated Americans, hated people being middle class, when the reality of her past 30 years in politics showed that she fought on the side of worker rights and higher wages. Yes, she had cronyism as well, getting paid by big banks, but her position was also that these companies that paid her succeeded by virtue of their workers. Where the conservative mantra is that big business succeeds on its own virtue, and workers are disposable.

They had the gall to suggest that alleged billionaire and actor Trump actually cared about the middle class, when it's been shown repeatedly he doesn't give two shits about them, and merely pays a bunch of lip service on the surface, meanwhile doing things like repealing Dodd Frank which royally screws anyone middle class.

[Zmaniac17]

Not like we could stop the wealthy.

Private armies, spying on everyone, combat drones.

We don't have the means anymore to overthrow the wealthy in a scenario similar to the french revolution.

They're stopping to need us quickly.

You're probably right. If you look at the small populations in western countries that currently hold a majority of the worlds wealth it is hard to make a strong argument that this will just change or get better just because we want it to.

However, I think with a greater access to education and information larger populations will naturally become more powerful due to their larger pool of genius intellects. That is of course assuming that the trend towards greater access to information continues. And assuming we don't get an Elysium situation.

[melodramocracy]

It's tragic, really. Reagan spurred on this idea that we need to dismantle worker rights and unions, and let businesses "fix" the economy. At the time there was nothing to fix, America was doing great, and there was no reason to believe that we should have actually changed anything.

Agreed 100%. We can all patiently hold our breaths for a candidate who doesn't paint the current national picture as an imposing disaster that only he / she can correct through his / her super-amazing legislative ideas.

[scrangos]

I didn't say they were designing them...I said they were building them. Observe the considerable distance between those two points.

I know.. but thats not what the person you were replying to was talking about... thought you misunderstood or something.

https://www.ibm.com/watson/

Not really.

Thats mostly data analysis, what I meant was a much further scope.. like coming up with the idea that data analysis would be useful and the approach to implementing it.

[Iamanerd]

Burger-flipping robot replaces humans on first day at work

9 MARCH 2017 • 10:42AM

Mark Molloy



A burger-flipping robot has just completed its first day on the job at a restaurant in California, replacing humans at the grill.

Flippy has mastered the art of cooking the perfect burger and has just started work at CaliBurger, a fast-food chain.

The robotic kitchen assistant, which its makers say can be installed in just five minutes, is the brainchild of Miso Robotics.

“Much like self-driving vehicles, our system continuously learns from its experiences to improve over time,” said David Zito, chief executive officer of Miso Robotics.

“Though we are starting with the relatively 'simple' task of cooking burgers, our proprietary AI software allows our kitchen assistants to be adaptable and therefore can be trained to help with almost any dull, dirty or dangerous task in a commercial kitchen — whether it's frying chicken, cutting vegetables or final plating.”

Cameras and sensors help Flippy to determine when the burger is fully cooked, before the robot places them on a bun. A human worker then takes over and adds condiments.

More Flippy robots will be introduced at CaliBurgers next year, with the aim of installing them in 50 of their restaurants worldwide by the end of 2019.

CaliBurger say the benefits include making “food faster, safer and with fewer errors”.

So let's see, no one has to guess what it wrote on an application. It doesn't get high on breaks. It doesn't spit in food. Won't take time off to protest its own job. It never complains it's raising a family of peripherals on minimum wage. Oh and last but not least it will get along really well with the kiosk that took its order and won't be loud and abrasive.

What's not to love.

Holy stereotypes batman! Let me guess, you think this came about due to $15/hr wages? Let me also take a guess that you think people are undeserving of a living wage? I have a secret to share with you friend, this was coming regardless if the wage was 10/hr or 20/hr as this is the future many fields have to look forward to.

[Knaar]

And one morning they turn on the machine, it doesnt work for reasons and they dont have anybody to flip burger and have to close the store for the day!

[Halicia]

Holy stereotypes batman! Let me guess, you think this came about due to $15/hr wages? Let me also take a guess that you think people are undeserving of a living wage? I have a secret to share with you friend, this was coming regardless if the wage was 10/hr or 20/hr as this is the future many fields have to look forward to.

Has nothing to do with $15/hour, or living wage, or $1/hour.

Capitalism determines that the most profitable worker is the one that will work for free. (or better yet... pay you for the opportunity)

Even slavery is too expensive if the maintenance costs for automation is cheaper then the living costs needed to feed & cloth you.

[Sky High]

has anyone told the OP that the guys building these robots advocate for things like basic income? which is far more radical and pertinent to the issue of automation.

[Iamanerd]

Has nothing to do with $15/hour, or living wage, or $1/hour.

Capitalism determines that the most profitable worker is the one that will work for free. (or better yet... pay you for the opportunity)

Even slavery is too expensive if the maintenance costs for automation is cheaper then the living costs needed to feed & cloth you.

I know, that's what I was getting at but I do agree with what you said. This is a future that was coming regardless of the wage.

[melodramocracy]

While I am in favor of a UBI, its a lot more complicated than that guy lays out.

"Just replace the welfare state with UBI and its all good!"

Not really. What do you do when large portions of the population inevitably squander their allotment? Some guy takes his free money, gambles it all away, wastes it on something, etc... Now he has nothing and there is no welfare state... Then we are right back where we started.

The whole point of the discussion of UBI is to allow people to subsist, even and especially if they don't or can't work, if they have nothing, etc... Obviously we can't and won't just let people die because they waste their allotment.

Obviously people would be against the government telling you how to spend your free money, but it may inevitably come to that, at least partially, unless we are ok with allowing people who squander their UBI to die.

What would they squander it on exactly? Housing / food / clothing costs still need to be met, Taxes still have to be paid. Things that wear out will need to be fixed or replaced.

The fairly low percentage of folks who are irresponsible enough to squander UBI would be doing the same thing with their current paychecks. That isn't any reason to view that behavior as a hurdle.

The bigger picture question that few are asking is where does UBI come from in the first place. The circular model now is that people work to buy things, pay taxes on those things, taxes which are then used for defense and the myriad of other services that fed / local govornments offer. The jobs people work at are businesses generally built on loans of various sorts (one of the few ways new money is 'fabricated' on nothing other than an IOU system), and paid back with interest, also widening the circle. etc.

Automation strips a very key element out of this equation, the element that employees are both accumulators and distributors of money, whereas robots are not.

They effectively break that circle. On a large enough scale, they'll simply eradicate any sense of economy as it's currently practiced. Now, we as a whole can just assume and hope that *something* comes along to re-ignite human employment, something that we associate with a real dollar value, but it will be a very tough sell on a large enough scale.