Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[Misstigris]

Can you show us some log with this ~2mio DPS ?

[Xanatu]

Can you show us some log with this ~2mio DPS ?

No one ever posts logs. People saying they burst 1.5 mil as outlaw, 2 mil as assassination, no evidence. It has literally never been easier to prove what you're saying about DPS and no one does it. Because it's usually not true.

[Misstigris]

No one ever posts logs. People saying they burst 1.5 mil as outlaw, 2 mil as assassination, no evidence. It has literally never been easier to prove what you're saying about DPS and no one does it. Because it's usually not true.

After 1 hour searching for log i juste find 1 passing the 1.5 mil ( https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=7 )
I realy want to believe that oulaw is fine but can't find the light

[Deleted]

Can you show us some log with this ~2mio DPS ?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...9&end=10955683

I overshot with two million, since that's only really in very short windows of 1-2 seconds, but, eh, it's how I remembered it, however, the burst here is still significant - That's one of the Assa rogues from my guild.

- https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...3&end=10955101

Slightly weaker burst, but still sitting close.

This is me as Otl in comparison: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...9&end=10955683

Just for anyone who says Outlaw can even get close on burst ._.

I have some incomplete logs with higher burst from our Assa rogues, such as this one: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...10&end=9909193
where he a good run with his Frond, same for the other guy: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...9193&source=26

They don't have stoneclad 2m burst, but they can certain go there now and then. Outlaw just doesn't even scrape anywhere close to that kind of burst, even with a 6buff.

If you dig around some more you can find more snippets of this - Note that I'm not saying that Assa rogues have amazing burst, but it's significantly stronger than Outlaw's, at the very least.

No one ever posts logs. People saying they burst 1.5 mil as outlaw, 2 mil as assassination, no evidence. It has literally never been easier to prove what you're saying about DPS and no one does it. Because it's usually not true.

You're correct, so let me make amends

[Xanatu]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...9&end=10955683

I overshot with two million, since that's only really in very short windows of 1-2 seconds, but, eh, it's how I remembered it, however, the burst here is still significant - That's one of the Assa rogues from my guild.

- https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...3&end=10955101

Slightly weaker burst, but still sitting close.

This is me as Otl in comparison: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...9&end=10955683

Just for anyone who says Outlaw can even get close on burst ._.

I have some incomplete logs with higher burst from our Assa rogues, such as this one: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...10&end=9909193
where he a good run with his Frond, same for the other guy: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...9193&source=26

They don't have stoneclad 2m burst, but they can certain go there now and then. Outlaw just doesn't even scrape anywhere close to that kind of burst, even with a 6buff.

If you dig around some more you can find more snippets of this - Note that I'm not saying that Assa rogues have amazing burst, but it's significantly stronger than Outlaw's, at the very least.



You're correct, so let me make amends

Assassination is just better all around. I'm looking at my opening "burst" on Krosus (40 seconds) on our best kill, it was 827k. End DPS ended up being 720k. This class has virtually no opening burst at all. DH is a class with BURST. Assassination is kind of random/tied to procs and legendaries (not that outlaw isn't).

[Elyzibeth]

Burst you say?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=15
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=15

Burst has so much to do with what lego's and gear you have it's not even funny. I mean, DOS makes it "win" mode with shoulders above. NBF going ham makes it crazy below...

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=20

Assassin is strong right now, I really hope they get something balanced out with outlaw come 7.2. I really want to play outlaw in in M+ etc, but just can't bring myself too right now. I need to learn more how to play it too I suppose.

[Deleted]

Assassination is just better all around. I'm looking at my opening "burst" on Krosus (40 seconds) on our best kill, it was 827k. End DPS ended up being 720k. This class has virtually no opening burst at all. DH is a class with BURST. Assassination is kind of random/tied to procs and legendaries (not that outlaw isn't).

Yep, basically. Outlaw's main mantra is the law of averages. I think in 7.2 we're getting a "you deal 10% more damage during CotD" to consolidate our burst a bit, but, eh.

Assa has fairly consistent burst, the main kicker being "How fast do I get to max AP stacks" and #of BoT procs. But since they can use DoS, they automatically falls into a higher category than most of us

[Elyzibeth]

I was curious if DOS works with blade fury? I'm guessing not, but anyone know for sure?

[Deleted]

Evidently you havn't played with a good Assa rogue

The 2 assa Rogues in my guild easily burst 1.8-2m, and that's without DoS (And neither of them have shoulders, both using boots+bracers)

Thats complete bullshit, since I have 904 ilvl, rank 99+ frequently, I use boots and bracers+DOS, and going past 1.2/1.3 million without shoulders is pretty much impossible. Maybe with cinidaria and shoulders, someone could "easily" have that kind of burst.

- - - Updated - - -

No one ever posts logs. People saying they burst 1.5 mil as outlaw, 2 mil as assassination, no evidence. It has literally never been easier to prove what you're saying about DPS and no one does it. Because it's usually not true.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=23

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=23

Like I said above, can burst for around 1.4/1.5. This is with cinidaria, probably should have mentioned that.

[Deleted]

Thats complete bullshit, since I have 904 ilvl, rank 99+ frequently, I use boots and bracers+DOS, and going past 1.2/1.3 million without shoulders is pretty much impossible. Maybe with cinidaria and shoulders, someone could "easily" have that kind of burst.

Check my follow-up post, we're looking at the 1.3/1.4m range, spiking to 2m, just my own confirmation bias from looking at Skada too much, I suppose.

And yea, with Shoulders+DoS, hitting 2m burst is certainly feasible for Assa, but then again, that has nothing to do with Assa specifically, and everything to do with DoS.

[Nagvalny]

How looks opener with mantle and greenskins? And where i can find some infotmation about rotation with greenskins?

[Deleted]

well i think the main reason that people are telling you they can burst above 1,5mil is because they test it on the raidboss training dummy, which has no amor. Thats why people are unable to post logs. Obviously they cant burst that high on real bosses. I browsed my logs to find any high burst, the highest i could find was a little over 1,5m with bracers+shoulders.

But when i test it at the raidboss training dummy in OG i get a higher result. Iam also getting a higher burst result on Mythic+ bosses, which i havent logged ever.

How looks opener with mantle and greenskins? And where i can find some infotmation about rotation with greenskins?

Pretty easy, mfd prefight if you get TB, you vanish when shoulder buff is over, then use BtE with full CP out of stealth (or RT if BtE isnt up followed by BtE) You try to get as much BtE to the target with shoulder Buff as possible.

If you dont get TB you just use BtE/RT with max CP until Shoulder Buff runs out, then instead of vanish you're starting to reroll for TB with the CP from your curse of the dreadblades.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Outlaw PTR

• Curse of the Dreadblades (Artifact ability) now works with Ghostly Strike.
• Fatebringer (Artifact talent) now reduces the Energy cost of Finishing moves by 1 per point (was a reduction of 2 Energy per point).
• Increased the damage of the following abilities by 3.5%: Ambush, Between the Eyes, Cannonball Barrage, Death from Above, Ghostly Strike, Killing Spree, Pistol Shot, Run Through, Saber Slash.

What do we think? 3.5% vs energy loss from Fatebringer; what's our net loss/gain?

- - - Updated - - -

Curious about how Loaded Dice will play out. Guaranteed 2 buffs might make things feel a lot smoother, but it feels like a catch-up for us, while other specs will also get new gold traits moving them further ahead. What will the net affect be, after we get ours and they get theirs? Idk but I wonder.

[Deleted]

They just make sure to break fatebringers viability, i guess because it is used to often. We are going to end up playing with other relics that's for sure. And i guess its not gonna be Fate's Thirst. More in a direction of Fortune's Boon... so get ready to farm 'em if they don't nerf it in advance...

[Xanatu]

Outlaw PTR

• Curse of the Dreadblades (Artifact ability) now works with Ghostly Strike.
• Fatebringer (Artifact talent) now reduces the Energy cost of Finishing moves by 1 per point (was a reduction of 2 Energy per point).
• Increased the damage of the following abilities by 3.5%: Ambush, Between the Eyes, Cannonball Barrage, Death from Above, Ghostly Strike, Killing Spree, Pistol Shot, Run Through, Saber Slash.

What do we think? 3.5% vs energy loss from Fatebringer; what's our net loss/gain?

- - - Updated - - -

Curious about how Loaded Dice will play out. Guaranteed 2 buffs might make things feel a lot smoother, but it feels like a catch-up for us, while other specs will also get new gold traits moving them further ahead. What will the net affect be, after we get ours and they get theirs? Idk but I wonder.

I'm pretty certain that loaded dice sucks. There are a lot of 2-buffs you still have to roll out of (basically anything with BT or GM involved except TB). It needs to be free 2-rolls while AR is active or a free 3-roll. There are SO many issues with it. Think of how often you already have a good RTB up that won't expire within the window of the buff. You'll probably end up wasting this buff more than half the time. I don't think this is a DPS gain in the slightest. Under optimal circumstances, it at best saves you two RTB rolls per AR use (since there's a roughly 1/3 chance to get a 2-roll). I'm obviously just anger-crafting numbers here but this does not pass the eye test, in terms of viability.

[RobertoCarlos]

Long as roll the bones stays as is, Outlaw is doomed to mediocrity.

Nearly half way through the expac (7.2 isnt that far away) and all they have done is fiddle the knobs on spell damage and buff/nerf two artifact powers (fatebringer, fates thirst).

No way it gets the rework it needs to not be stuck in the middle of the pack, to only move higher up the pack with godly RNG.

Blade flurry was always a tuning nightmare since they made it hit all targets. Add roll the bones to the mix and you get what you get.

Surprised anyone stuck with the spec post nerfs

[Deleted]

I'm pretty certain that loaded dice sucks. There are a lot of 2-buffs you still have to roll out of (basically anything with BT or GM involved except TB). It needs to be free 2-rolls while AR is active or a free 3-roll. There are SO many issues with it. Think of how often you already have a good RTB up that won't expire within the window of the buff. You'll probably end up wasting this buff more than half the time. I don't think this is a DPS gain in the slightest. Under optimal circumstances, it at best saves you two RTB rolls per AR use (since there's a roughly 1/3 chance to get a 2-roll). I'm obviously just anger-crafting numbers here but this does not pass the eye test, in terms of viability.

I agree, loaded dice wont be a dmg increase most of the time. But hey in rare situations if you would had rolled a single buff that isnt TB you get now a higher chance of getting TB, because you get a guaranteed "2-buff" for one roll. It still sucks as trait but better then completely nothing.

[Blazo]

I agree, loaded dice wont be a dmg increase most of the time. But hey in rare situations if you would had rolled a single buff that isnt TB you get now a higher chance of getting TB, because you get a guaranteed "2-buff" for one roll. It still sucks as trait but better then completely nothing.

I think new trait got another bonus not taken in consideration.
Right now odds are following (approximately): 1 buff ~58%, 2 buffs ~ 35%, 3 buffs ~ 5%, 6 buffs ~2%.

After AR we got at least 2 buffs - so odds should changed accordingly coz 1 buff roll is no longer possible. And new odds should be following: 2 buff ~ 83%, 3 buffs ~ 12%, 6 buffs ~ 5%.

That's not much but something

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I think new trait got another bonus not taken in consideration.
Right now odds are following (approximately): 1 buff ~58%, 2 buffs ~ 35%, 3 buffs ~ 5%, 6 buffs ~2%.

After AR we got at least 2 buffs - so odds should changed accordingly coz 1 buff roll is no longer possible. And new odds should be following: 2 buff ~ 83%, 3 buffs ~ 12%, 6 buffs ~ 5%.

That's not much but something

But that's our new gold trait, right? And everyone else gets a gold trait too.
Ours may catch us up to where they were, but will it get us to where they will be?

[Blazo]

But that's our new gold trait, right? And everyone else gets a gold trait too.
Ours may catch us up to where they were, but will it get us to where they will be?

Traits not final, so we may get totally different trait in final iteration

+ Blizz posted that they thinking about disparity in buffs and may be we came back to 2 buff dream instead of TB or 3+.

In that case this trait will be quite powerful coz we 100% not waste our burst window on rerolling.