Dear Blizzard, we don´t like diablofied WoW

[Deleted]

"Dear Blizzard,

as a long time World of Warcraft customer, who has played this game for more than 12 years, I would like to make a statement that might surprise you.

I don't like Diablo 3! In fact, I don't like any of your current games, except for World of Warcraft. But Starcraft 2, Hearthstone, Heroes of the Storm, Overwatch... All those games are completely uninteresting to me.

You know which of your games I dislike the most? That's right, Diablo 3, the game you are currently trying to mix with World of Warcraft for some reason! I never regretted buying one of your games more. Thinking back to Error 37 and the Real Money Auction House makes me sick to my stomach. Even apart from that, I don't like anything about Diablo 3. In my opinion, it's a pointless grinding game that I never want to go back to.

With all that said, I would like to ask you to reconsider the direction you are currently pushing World of Warcraft into. I always liked this game so much, because it was very different from your other games and other MMORPGs. It was always a very unique experience. To me, it feels like a gut punch that you keep shoehorning in all these elements from Diablo 3 and other games, as they feel completely misplaced here.

Diablo 3 is a game with a very low retention rate, while World of Warcraft is supposed to be a game with a very high retention rate. You know that Diablo 3 players will never stay with the game for very long because of the nature of the game, but World of Warcraft is a game that you want people to play for a long time, right? So naturally, the motivating elements of both these games should never be mixed. For example, insane amounts of RNG are meant for games with disposable characters that reach their progression ceilings after a short time, not for games in which you spent months or even years working towards improving a single character.

By adding all these unfitting elements from other games, World of Warcraft loses parts of it's own identity. When I play high level mythic plus dungeons and witness the wildly imbalanced affixes, I think of Diablo 3. When I have to grind hundreds of mythic plus dungeons to receive all the artifact power I need to max out a single weapon, I think of Diablo 3. When I witness all the grief and disappointment created by the unfair legendary system, I imagine a loud casino with all it's slot machine noises. Just keep playing until you eventually get lucky! When I look at the PvP prestige system, I think about Call of Duty. I never in my life would have imagined to think about Call of Duty while playing World of Warcraft! Do you really think there is a massive audience crossover here? I hope you don't!

There is so much else, but it has all been said and done often enough. I am very worried about the future of this game. With the approaching AP grind of patch 7.2, I am very concerned that my apathy towards the RNG based reward structure might eventually increase to an unbearable level. I might even burn out completely, especially since there won't be a lot of new content. Players who want to stay competetive will have to farm mostly the same old mythic plus dungeons over and over again, like they did since the beginning of the expansion.

Was this really what you had in mind when you created this expansion? Having people play the same dungeons hundreds, thousands of times, forcing competetitive raiders and even PvP players to do the same, even if they don't have interest in this activity? Wasn't there a promise before the launch of this expansion that players could CHOOSE what they want to do and always be rewarded fairly for it? What happened to that? You really think that raiders and PvP players receive fair amounts of AP compared to dungeoneers? Are you surprised that so many guilds are calling it quits and arena participation is at an all time low?

There was a time in this expansion when I had 80 people online on my friend list at prime times. This number has since dropped to 20. I have never witnessed such a steep decline in any expansion before. Nearly all of my friends have quit the game.

You know what almost all of them give as reasons for quitting? The RNG based reward structure and legendaries. The systems that you were so convinced would keep people motivated for a long time, are actually making people quit the game instead. At some point, the chances of improving a character further are so incredibly small, that it's not even worth trying anymore, but at that point the character is still far from being perfectly equipped. There is simply no way that any person will ever perfectly equip one of their characters with the Titanforging system in place. There will be no completion, ever. But starting an alt is also out of the question for many people, because they don't want to go through all the grinding and waiting again, only to have another character who's equipment will never be fully completed. There is no closure! The game will never finished, and sure enough, that's the reason why many players are finished with the game.

Blizzard, I hope you to take feedback very serious in these times. The completely random reward structure that doesn't take merit into account, the extremly unfair legendary system that is killing competitiveness in guilds and among friends, titanforging up to item level 925 with a socket and leech as bonus stat from heroic dungeons, grinding AP for months to be finished with just ONE artifact weapon, stop all this nonsense! Make World of Warcraft more like World of Warcraft again.

Thanks for reading.
Have a nice day."

by Keilen - https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17615113696

YES WE DO ! <3

I love it! best expansion since WoTLK imho.

[Deleted]

I don't mind you sharing my post here, but notice how I called the topic "Dear Blizzard, I don't like Diablo 3." If you copy & paste my text, why not also copy & paste the headline? Don't give nitpickers an excuse to complain.

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170309/kwcm5ahc.png

https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17615113696

Edit: I also just read through it and noticed that you changed some of my text, but still give me full credit. Please return the text to it's original form and use the original headline. If you choose to keep these changes, please make it abundantly clear to everyone that you took someone else's text and changed some of it in an attempt to "correct" it I assume.

[Shostradamus]

I had high hopes for legion. Recently I decided to give up. I'd rather play another year of WoD than this trash. Far too much rng, of course. But the killer for me is the pathetic "attempt" at class balance.

[Solarnova]

Blizzard reads these forums, I know that for a fact, it's as good a place as any to talk about WoW, and how it's an ENTIRELY different game than it was from 2004-2007.

[Aleax]

So you have no idea, and you're just "sure".

Just clarifying.

Ug, is this even an answer? I know for a fact that Not everybody want to grind the same fest over and over again, like you. They do prefer content, or fresh air : the majority on earth don't play to WoW, coincidentally.

So yeah, I have billions of persons behind me, much better number than your actual players, like all those who already quit WoW due to the grind, and not only recently because WoW has always been a grind, it just is grinder yet. Just clarifying.

[God Save The King]

Ug, is this even an answer? I know for a fact that Not everybody want to grind the same fest over and over again, like you. They do prefer content, or fresh air : the majority on earth don't play to WoW, coincidentally.

So yeah, I have billions of persons behind me, much better number than your actual players, like all those who already quit WoW due to the grind, and not only recently because WoW has always been a grind, it just is grinder yet. Just clarifying.

Please provide a quote for the first bold. I do not recall saying that. For the second bold, that's ridiculous. You could literally say billions of people don't like "X" with your argument. Billions of people haven't visited America, must be a shit country. Billions of people don't know you, you must be a horrible vile person. Billions of people haven't played WoW, must be due to the grind (not the fact that 60%~ of the world's population do not have internet access_.

As for the rest of the post "my feels" is generally not an answer, but you do you.

[Deleted]

I don't mind you sharing my post here, but notice how I called the topic "Dear Blizzard, I don't like Diablo 3." If you copy & paste my text, why not also copy & paste the headline? Don't give nitpickers an excuse to complain.

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170309/kwcm5ahc.png

https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17615113696

Edit: I also just read through it and noticed that you changed some of my text, but still give me full credit. Please return the text to it's original form and use the original headline. If you choose to keep these changes, please make it abundantly clear to everyone that you took someone else's text and changed some of it in an attempt to "correct" it I assume.

Sorry for that, I thought I just fixed some typos you had made. Reverted everything back to how you made it now. The title I changed afterwards, but unfortunately it only has effect in the thread itself, and not on the thread list. It was a great post and that is why I decided to bring more attention to it.

[Grimnakh]

Love the expansion, things I would change:

1. AP system is great, just make it infinitely progressable with steeply increasing costs, make all repeatable content drop BOA AP tokens, make AK account wide, allow purchase of catchup tokens for specs/alts at lower progression, but reasonably limited.

2. Kind of hate the legendary system, would be ok if the drop rate were tripled so a reasonably dedicated player would have them all already.

3. PVP rewards are pretty bad atm, should be meaningful grindable and ratings based rewards.

4. Allow cross realm mythic, lock bosses individually, dont allow boss to be engaged with locked player present.

5. allow pet battle content to be done via mobile app, allow auction house content to be done via app.

6. have mythic plus versions of previous raid tiers, with gear reward capped at current herioc loot rewards.

7. Slowly convert all old content to item level scaling with scaled rewards for quests and mobs. Allow players to shift between versions with a cooldown item, and by setting difficulty for raids/dungeons. (rewards for old expansion content capped at surrent normal raid tier loot unless given mythic plus treatment and tuned)

8. Have an RP explanation for no flying, have demons attack us in the sky is we steer away from protected flight paths, and other threats.

9. Have mythic plus affixes be random, and have them apply after starting the dungeon.


Have a nice day.

[Alopex Major]

1) Bait thread title.
2) This isn't the WoW forums, send feedback there.
3) you only sleak for yourself. As a 12+ year player I welcomed these changes to a stagnating genre.

As a 12 year player, I absolutely cannot stand World of Diablo.

[shaunika123]

Skinner box and RNG loot systems are something a bit different.
what WoW "was", and for a large part still is, is a Skinner box.

perform task, get reward.
in it's most basic form.

sure, different kinds of loot required different tasks to be completed and a myriad of other interactions.
but in it's most basic form it amounts to, do a task, receive a reward.

that system is inherently fine for most games, though it may seem a bit shallow if attention is drawn to it like this.

another system is the RNG system that has currently, not so subtly, been implemented to a much higher degree than previous installments.

now, granted, there was always a part RNG in WoW, you knew the loot a boss could drop, but he would only drop a couple of items from that loot table, some pieces having a higher chance than others.


the main problem is the large amount of RNG they implemented into the game that's a big turn off to a lot of players.
whilst i'm sure there is probably an equally large portion of the players that like the current system, and undoubtedly the majority player base doesn't mind either way, it is still a pretty massive change compared to the previous systems and incremental changes that came with every mayor patch/expansion.

where back than it was a slow and steady implementation of changes to the system, right now it seems like they dumped everything at once and decide to tweak it along the way, most of which seems to be tweaks to alleviate and at times revert the rampant change the new system brought with it, rather than striving forward.

but the skinner box is still in

the RNG is an additional layer that doesnt have bad sides when we break it down to the individual
if you perform task you still get reward you just CAN get more rewards

and to top it off, there's more stuff to do and get rewards for

i mean it isnt a perfect system by any means, in fact it has huge glaring flaws(but none of the previous systems were perfect either)
, but i think it ironically works better for wow than it does for diablo

[Deleted]

AP is fine.
DPS legendaries are fine.
RNG is awful.

AP=NOT fine... if you like multispec and/or alts like me its fucking horrible-should be account wide OR get a huge acc wide bonus extra mutliplier for rest of your characters and other weapons.

Legendaries=NOT fine...some legs are good cus they affect the way you play and change it in a good way and are strong aswell, but mixing those with stupid ones that are defensive or with other dps ones that do nothing except 0.1% dps increase and boring? NO.

RNG can be ok to a degree... i think that if warforging went up to +15ilvl instead of +70 or whatever it goes it would be pretty fine spot.

And if these things i mentioned were fixed, and maybe also give M+ some kind of lockout so you cant do 100 a week, limit them in some way, then IMO legion would ROCK.

[anaxie]

I can only agree.. World of Warcraft: RNG was the final nail in the coffin for me.. it cured 12 years of WoW addiction.. so thanks for finally doing something to the game that made me quit for good

Same but the nail came when legion was annoucned and with WoD having removed sockets, reforge,and ramping up the casino loot by retaining coins and caches.... YAY and then what Legion promised with Legendaries and TF.

I just laughed the fuck right out of a decade playing the game and havn't logged in for 2 years.

The amount of disdain and hate for this game is probably 50/50 at this point. Vocal minority people here spew on fansites. HAAAAAHAA. Millions have left in Legion because of the awful systems and nevermind the fubar state of PvP. If this expansion wasn't about the Burning Legions Final story arc and something more akin to MoP it would be in crisis mode. This game is held up on the crutches of it's current story arc.

- - - Updated - - -

but the skinner box is still in

the RNG is an additional layer that doesnt have bad sides when we break it down to the individual
if you perform task you still get reward you just CAN get more rewards

and to top it off, there's more stuff to do and get rewards for

i mean it isnt a perfect system by any means, in fact it has huge glaring flaws(but none of the previous systems were perfect either)
, but i think it ironically works better for wow than it does for diablo

and 99% of the rewards are garbage. and you do the same thing... AGAIN and Again and again X1000.

Fuck yeaaaaah!

Wrath and Cata systems were perfect mostly Cata

Boss dies

Boss can drop these items and now bosses drop lots of items YAY Cata

This item drops as shown. There isn't 200 variations of said item. What you see is what you get.

This game now is an endless treadmill. There used to be an end. No more though. never again. Play everyday slaves

[Nihilist74]

I don't mind diablo 3 ideas seeping into wow but I don't like the way they did it with legion. If they made it so every class and spec had generating aoe and single target abilities and also had aoe and single target spenders, a few cds, I would be pretty happy with that.

[anaxie]

As a 12 year player, I absolutely cannot stand World of Diablo.

Remember when you could get your full BiS each tier.

Yeah that ended when WoD launched and all customization was gutted.

GEMS NOT FUN /Delete

game has felt soulless since WoD. now in Legion great story arc. Awful reward systems. And all hope for the Dev team lost with the incompetence and dismissive hilarious behavior they have shown. The current developers I wouldn't trust to cook me breakfast. I would ask for bacon and eggs and I would get a Taco

- - - Updated - - -

Blizzard reads these forums, I know that for a fact, it's as good a place as any to talk about WoW, and how it's an ENTIRELY different game than it was from 2004-2007.

Game started to change with the Release of 4.3 Lets be honest here.

All downhill since that point.

- - - Updated - - -

Your "We" doesn't include me, so don't even think YOUR opinion on the expansion speaks for others.

I get pissed off so much with these crass assumption posts.

No but he speaks for me so go eat sand

- - - Updated - - -

Let me guess, 8.0:

- Class specs removed, classes can now choose out of any of their class abilities, within a limited number of slots.
- Talents replaced by Passive skill slots.
- All common/rare and epic gear now has random affixes, and stat ranges.
- Legendary drop rates drasticly increased, 100 new legendaries for each class, Legendaries are more powerful then Epics, and have higher stat ranges by default.
- Upcoming Set Items, Same itemlevel as Legendary items, however with powerful bonus for wearing multiple, 5 sets per class added to the game.
- Legendary power bank added to collection interface.
- New Feature, Random Layout Dungeons & Mythic Rifts.
- Artifacts replaced by paragon XP, bonus stats for completing tasks at max level, 1000 new paragon levels to attain, points can be distributed in various attributes and changed in rest areas.
- Honor system removed, and replaced by "ears" , a new currency for killing other players.
- Raids removed, our random dungeon system and mythic rifts is an advanced technology balanced for 5 player-groups.

Just joking but it could be far more diablo-ish then now.

I didn't think they could make the reward and RNG structure worse than WoD.

THEN Legion happened. HO! HO! HO! Just look at PVP gear acquisition

If there is one thing blizzard does well it's making hilariously out of touch changes.

- - - Updated - - -

ahem, we?

excuse me?
who is we?

talk for yourself

So in short you have nothing credible to say to his argument because hes right.

- - - Updated - - -

Are all the people attacking him for saying "we" too fucking inept to make a counter-point to OP. My guess is yes and I'm not surprised.

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

funny how people write to blizzard like they would write to santa

[Servasus]

Nobody cares about your opinion

I do. Speak for yourself.

[anaxie]

You think Blizz care about our opinions? $$$ that's they care for mainly.

If could be otherwise, D3 could have more content. Same for SC2.

Cut starcraft campaigns up into 3 expansions over how many years?

Meanwhile at SCMapster and Hiveworkshop...........

I mean the existence of those websites alone shows how fucking inept blizzard is with a huge team and budget that hey. this is all we produced. sup yall!

milk milk milk

Ready for your 5000th M+ run or 700th Daily? Bestfun

[Jigga93]

i prefer how it is now. gives me a reason to log on and play.i hated getting bis gear in a week and only logging on to raid.

[anaxie]

Just wait for 7.3 to kill Diablo.

They found a way to make more money by making people stay online longer... it's sad that the formula comes from another game.

ps: tbh i'm pretty sure this is why Chris Metzen retired. His vision for this game was slowly destroyed.

He finishd the games storyboard.

Game is ending next expansion.

Source? Chronicle and lore and common sense

[Grimnakh]

i prefer how it is now. gives me a reason to log on and play.i hated getting bis gear in a week and only logging on to raid.

Exactly. I sub ecause theres a reason to keep playing, slowly progressing. Its mind boggling to me that people want to have an end point in an mmorpg.