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  1. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by Farron69 View Post
    Have they shown any Samurai gameplay except for the one video from the fanfest?
    If it's like heavensward, we will see a couple ability animations (no tooltips) a month or so before release. Otherwise we won't see anything until the launch day.

  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by Treeba View Post
    Maybe... I think you get a lot of healers who just can't be bothered. They want to heal, not dps. You get a lot of others who just don't even know they are expected to dps. Cleric stance, and its "issues", is probably not a huge factor for most people who pick healer and don't dps while doing so.
    I think you're right here. I've been leveling a Dark Knight recently and I've noticed that despite being able to survive just fine without being babysat by a healer all of the time, the healer will just do nothing. Literally nothing in most cases.

    I did a Dungeon eariler in the week where our White Mage was at a staggering 89% overhealing, and didn't do a single point of damage the entire run. He was casting Cure just for the sake of having something to do. I mean... Why was he even there in that case? He did nothing that a potion or two wouldn't. It couldn't have been a fun experience for him either.

    The obvious "fix" for this is to have damage be higher relative to tank health, so healers are required to be constantly healing. That's fine, I guess, but realistically it leaves any healers without significant up-front healing at a severe disadvantage. It also completely marginalises what little self-healing tanks do have too. I don't really think that's the way to go, it leaves your healers stuck playing whack-a-mole and leads to an environment where success and failure is based more around raw numbers than using your abilities well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    This is a fair point. So How can we improve my mechanic for solo play? I'm 100% ok with increasing the base power of healers to be as strong as a DPS in a leveling/solo vacuum.
    To make your idea workable you'd first have to increase base healer DPS across the board. Either by allowing their damage to scale with the Mind stat, or perhaps by combining both Int and Mind into a single "Magic" stat that affected the power of all your spells.

    With that out of the way, the next thing I'd improve on would be the buff duration. I'd consider making it as long as 60 seconds, perhaps even longer, and I would allow it to stack something like 5 times. I'd also drop the idea to consume the buffs and instead make them something you'd want to keep stacked as much as possible.

    I would keep having your damaging spells give you a small buff to your healing, but I'd have casting a heal give you a significantly larger buff to your damage. You will rarely cast heals while solo, so I'd tune the numbers around that assumption. It wouldn't really affect solo play much, although you would be losing the 10% bonus damage from Cleric Stance, you would gain at least that much, and possiably even more, from having a single stack of the +damage buff.

    It would work just fine for group play since casting damaging spells improves your healing, albeit at a much lower percentage. Managing it properly might be a little bit tricky at first, especially getting it stacked, however to maintain it all you'd need to do is cast one DoT every 60 seconds.

    The huge downside to this however is you'd have to balance all future encounters around the assumption that every healer is going to be at max stacks at almost all times. You've gone from being able to DPS feeling like a reward for clever play towards being forced to DPS to avoid the punishment of losing your Healing Stacks. I'm not so sure I'd be on board with that kind of idea, since negative incentives tend to be far less effective than positive ones.

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravex View Post
    This is a game people play for entertainment. Yes every ability should be about fun.
    That's not remotely how game design works. Throwing everything in "because it'll be fun" can ultimately tank your design.

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    That's not remotely how game design works. Throwing everything in "because it'll be fun" can ultimately tank your design.
    Can I see your game design resume before you decide to do the whole I'm right you're wrong thing?

    I myself don't have any experience, but I know from a consumer stance that yes, I want to have fun in the game, why the heck that is met with resistance is baffling to me.
    Last edited by Ravex; 2017-03-09 at 10:10 PM.

  5. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravex View Post
    Can I see your game design resume before you decide to do the whole I'm right you're wrong thing?

    I myself don't have any experience, but I know from a consumer stance that yes, I want to have fun in the game, why the heck is that meant with resistance is baffling to me.
    What one man finds to be fun, another one wont. So the idea sorta sinks from the start.

    The fun comes from the whole thing working together, from several conepts several people may like, so in a way, yes, everything is about being 'fun' but it also has to be weighed and balanced.

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by The Offbeat View Post
    What one man finds to be fun, another one wont. So the idea sorta sinks from the start.

    The fun comes from the whole thing working together, from several conepts several people may like, so in a way, yes, everything is about being 'fun' but it also has to be weighed and balanced.
    Obvious statement followed by hypocritical statement.

    Really don't know where to go with that.

    You're aware I'm coming from a post from a guy saying not all things need to be fun in a game. Which you agreed with me on right?

  7. #467
    Whether or not an ability is fun is entirely subjective. Some people enjoy the challenge of BLM's Enochian. Others hate the hell out of it and don't find it the least bit fun. Fire 4 is fun to me; Fire 1 serves the purpose of keeping AF buff up so I can use Fire 4...so it's not-so fun.

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravex View Post
    This is a game people play for entertainment. Yes every ability should be about fun.
    I get the logic behind that line of thought, but it isn't how any spec is designed. I can't think of any class in any mmo I play that doesn't use some boring/weak abilities to build up to more fun abilities. Looking at dragoon the first 2 abilities in each combo are pretty uninteresting. Heavy thrust is pretty dull as well. They all build up to more "fun" abilities. I don't really want those abilities removed or changed. They might be lame individually, but they contribute to a greater whole that is interesting. Maybe just to lessen the number of keybinds since dragoon is pretty ability heavy, but not because of them being fun or not fun.

    Ultimately fun is subjective, so maybe you find those weaker "builder" abilities fun.

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by Treeba View Post
    I get the logic behind that line of thought, but it isn't how any spec is designed. I can't think of any class in any mmo I play that doesn't use some boring/weak abilities to build up to more fun abilities. Looking at dragoon the first 2 abilities in each combo are pretty uninteresting. Heavy thrust is pretty dull as well. They all build up to more "fun" abilities. I don't really want those abilities removed or changed. They might be lame individually, but they contribute to a greater whole that is interesting. Maybe just to lessen the number of keybinds since dragoon is pretty ability heavy, but not because of them being fun or not fun.

    Ultimately fun is subjective, so maybe you find those weaker "builder" abilities fun.
    I'd love to see a combo system on the same key like other mmos pull off. Would clean a lot of bloat and give plenty of room for other abilities to be added.

    I'm on the fence about abilities like heavy thrust (sorry I've been away from the game for a while I'm remembering it as the flank damage buff) I get why it exists, to give you something else to micro manage but part of me has always felt like low gameplay impact abilities like that should just be baked in. Say freeing them up to do a ninjitsu type of comboing for jumps because lets be real, they look neat but they are pretty clunky.

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravex View Post
    I'd love to see a combo system on the same key like other mmos pull off. Would clean a lot of bloat and give plenty of room for other abilities to be added.
    I'd like to see that with a mix of how ninja's mudras work.

    You have 3 buttons that will change, but other buttons will combo as well.

    So you'd have combos like
    1 > 2 > 3
    1 > 1 > 3
    1 > 3 > 2
    1 > 3 > 2
    1 > 3 > 1
    1 > 2 > 2
    1 > 1 > 2
    Heck, why even have 1 be the only opening? Some combos could trigger with 3 > 3 > 2 or 3 > 2 > 2 and so on and so forth.

    With the combo changing the keybind to other abilities, you could make a lot of variations with just 3 buttons triggering other button skill changes, etc. Might be a coding nightmare, but the devs are smart, right?

    Also, they need to find a way that dragoons are AoE immune when they cast jump. That was Kain's bread & butter avoidance in FF IV.

  11. #471
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Also, they need to find a way that dragoons are AoE immune when they cast jump. That was Kain's bread & butter avoidance in FF IV.
    There is a thing called balance and tuning in mmos. Smart drgs understand that jumps can put them in deadly situations and adjust thier play. The exact term I believe is Git Gud. Having jump immunity would be so ridiculously overpowered that it would rival even the dumbest imbalances in WoW history.

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by Binaris View Post
    There is a thing called balance and tuning in mmos. Smart drgs understand that jumps can put them in deadly situations and adjust thier play. The exact term I believe is Git Gud. Having jump immunity would be so ridiculously overpowered that it would rival even the dumbest imbalances in WoW history.
    Like you said, balance and tuning. Longer cool down, if the jump itself is longer where you're not doing other abilities and damage with the right balanced hit upon drop, etc. FFIV seemed kind of random, but sometimes it felt like Kain was gone for 2.5 rounds of combat before he actually came down with Jump, so long "cast" for a big hit. XD

    But it doesn't make sense to me... You've jumped. You're in the air. You're ABOVE THE DRAGON'S HEAD and.....the ground effect obliterates you. Just seemed like something they could have designed and tuned around it being able to avoid, but not be "jump spam never get hit by mechanics" either.

    Note: I don't play dragoon, so I'm just tossing this as a concept discussion, not really meant as "this should be implemented in Stormblood or soon" type suggestion.
    Last edited by Faroth; 2017-03-10 at 05:29 PM.

  13. #473
    If anything, reduce the delay on the animation locks that keeps players from moving after using Jump and other related abilities (disclaimer: been a while since I played DRG). That, or allow some degree of movement during the jump, even if it's at 50% normal speed or such...skydiving comes to mind, but DRGs don't have parachutes to help guide their landing.

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazela View Post
    skydiving comes to mind, but DRGs don't have parachutes to help guide their landing.
    But they have all those blades sticking out of their armor in every direction. Surely those would act as an airfoil.
    One day I was walking and I found this big log. Then I rolled the log over and underneath was a tiny little stick.
    And I was like, "That log had a child!"

  15. #475
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazela View Post
    If anything, reduce the delay on the animation locks that keeps players from moving after using Jump and other related abilities (disclaimer: been a while since I played DRG). That, or allow some degree of movement during the jump, even if it's at 50% normal speed or such...skydiving comes to mind, but DRGs don't have parachutes to help guide their landing.
    I think they did reduce them, not entirely removed, but you're not as likely to eat the floor because you jumped at the wrong time besides a bad call, instead of "Do I risk the DPS loss not using it on CD or do I risk dying"

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazela View Post
    If anything, reduce the delay on the animation locks that keeps players from moving after using Jump and other related abilities (disclaimer: been a while since I played DRG). That, or allow some degree of movement during the jump, even if it's at 50% normal speed or such...skydiving comes to mind, but DRGs don't have parachutes to help guide their landing.
    the locks are actually super short now for spineshatter and dragonfire dive. the problem with regular Jump is that it returns you to your starting position, so it has to go through 2 animations. i wouldn't mind if they just removed the returning part and make it like a regular gap closer.

  17. #477
    A bonus to these abilities is they often negate pushback abilities, like Sophia's encounter or the A3 Wash Away. I get though why there are no immunities. If they added any iframes to jumps, you can be sure that the high end groups/more skilled dragoons would find a way to incorporate that into strategy - like using shadewalker on a DRG so he can just immune through a tank buster or debuff like Nisi.

  18. #478
    Quote Originally Posted by Scufflegrit View Post
    But they have all those blades sticking out of their armor in every direction. Surely those would act as an airfoil.
    Good point...they could work as functional wings.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Veluren View Post
    I think they did reduce them, not entirely removed, but you're not as likely to eat the floor because you jumped at the wrong time besides a bad call, instead of "Do I risk the DPS loss not using it on CD or do I risk dying"
    Any positional attack has that risk, too..."do I get in position or risk getting wrecked?". It's nowhere near as severe an issue compared to DRG jump lock, though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    the locks are actually super short now for spineshatter and dragonfire dive. the problem with regular Jump is that it returns you to your starting position, so it has to go through 2 animations. i wouldn't mind if they just removed the returning part and make it like a regular gap closer.
    That's part of it, yeah. I don't see them setting jump to function like SS and DFD, though...could lead to some "clever use of game mechanics". Not to mention that would be a smorgasbord of gap closers for pvp (that said, having not done pvp yet, maybe that's something DRG needs more of there...idk).

  19. #479
    Stood in the Fire
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    Nothing really new coming... Its the same stuff we have had since Realm Reborn, with new skins.

    I had hoped healing would become more fun after having played white mage since release and I'm kinda bumped to see no fundamental changes to any of the healing classes, or just a class that isnt DPS.

    Ill stay on my WHM I guess.

  20. #480
    Some notes from Pax east press conference.


    Chance Doma fell because no one wanted to heal or dps. Therefore, please continue tank and heal, eorzeans
    There will be a mannequin for housing that you can dress up in your armor, or something similar in 4.x series
    No O-pod in the forseeable future (in other words, no portable orchestrion)
    There will be a lot of climbing for those who want to in Shirogane.
    Someone asked why customer service never picked up, Yoshi P directed him to someone on the FF crew on the PAXGrounds
    Cruise chaser mount "Will look into it"

    And of course, most important of all. Male hyur and Roegadyn bunny suits are complete, remaining races will be worked on after SB launches.



    "PLEASE LET ME FINISH STORMBLOOD BEFORE ASKING ABOUT MORE CLASSES!" -Yoshi P

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