Why is America given shit over Nagasaki and Hiroshima?

[NineSpine]

Agreed. I never really hear anything other than support for what we did. It was necessary. At the time, an invasion of Japan would be bloody and brutal, and they would likely have not recovered from it even to this day.

"...the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing."
-President Dwight D. Eisenhower

[Kaleredar]

In hindsight the nukes were honestly not needed, especially not ones of that power.
They could have opted for non-nuclear bombs or made the nukes a lot weaker.
The effect would have been very similar and morale breaking, but without the atrocious count of civilian deaths and radiation.
However the usa REALLY wanted to test the new weapons on a real target and show the world its might.

Also the USA is the "global police" that preaches human rights and higher morality, but in truth it is the least "human loving" 1st world country.
Not only is the USA known to needlessly kill a lot of civilians in other countries (starting from vietnam), but USA also has a horrid treatment towards its own citizens (worst health and education systems in the world, for starters).

You might want to produce sources for those claims.

Also, you know who dragged the US into Vietnam, right? The US didn't roll up for bugs and giggles.

Oh, and another fun fact- France was actually considering working with the US to use Nuclear weapons in Vietnam.

[Exeris]

Agreed. I never really hear anything other than support for what we did. It was necessary. At the time, an invasion of Japan would be bloody and brutal, and they would likely have not recovered from it even to this day.

What kind of people have you talked to?

[Kaleredar]

"...the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing."
-President Dwight D. Eisenhower

Other military personnel at the time thought otherwise. Hindsight is 20/20.

[Lalabaer]

Nazi's killed everyone that was not desired, black, jews, gypsy's, political, gay, disabled people

Is that why Hitler allied with the Japanese, or was fond of Muslims?
The Nazis cause the genocide and they were responsible for euthanasia but the issue is more complex than you might think

Also why do people keep calling them Nazi's ??

Back on topic though, this relativism isn't good for anyone.
Were Al Qaeda justified in the 9/11 terrorist attack because the US keeps destabilising the middle east?
History isn't fucking black and white. If you think your country is the "good guys" you're an idiot

Also, you know who dragged the US into Vietnam, right? The US didn't roll up for bugs and giggles.

They only rolled up to fight their proxy war and use chemical agents on rice farmers, but I guess that's okay because Vietnam attacked the US right?

[NineSpine]

You might want to produce sources for those claims.

Also, you know who dragged the US into Vietnam, right? The US didn't roll up for bugs and giggles.

Oh, and another fun fact- France was actually considering working with the US to use Nuclear weapons in Vietnam.

The U.S. government made up a phony attack to garner public support for the war. Trying to blame anyone else is mental.

[Machismo]

You might want to produce sources for those claims.

Also, you know who dragged the US into Vietnam, right? The US didn't roll up for bugs and giggles.

Oh, and another fun fact- France was actually considering working with the US to use Nuclear weapons in Vietnam.

We dragged ourselves into Vietnam.

[Bloodwolf]

Japan raped its way across China and was in league with a nation that wanted to commit genocide on those it deemed impure, alcoholics, addicts and so on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

They did horrible things that make the atomic bombs look like vacation. While the civilians were not directly guilty ( they still fed those soldiers, produced their weapons and ensured they had a place to retreat to ) of all those things, they were still what kept the army afloat.

So why exactly is it wrong, in a war against an axis of tyrants and psychopaths, to fight fire with fire? Had the Axis won we'd have seen hundreds of millions killed due to their race. Two atomic bombs are a small price to pay in order to quell that evil for good.


What kind of General could look the wives of his fallen soldiers in the eyes and say

'' We could've ended the war sooner. Your husband would still be alive, had I bombed their cities. But I put the lives of their civilians, the ones that feed the army, above that of my own men. "

Holy hell, I'd see that as treason. As the military leader your main goal is to kill the enemy and protect your own men/nation. And that's precisely what they did.

You know what the duty of every person with moral standards should be? Not going to war for some politicians or leaders and stop killing innocent people. The whole world including the USA failed at doing this.

[I Push Buttons]

Japan has apologized to China numerous times, beginning in the early 70s. Sorry that you haven't kept up.

A pretty empty apology when they teach their kids that they did nothing wrong during WW2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japane..._controversies

And include the names of the soldiers who waged their genocidal war in their shrine to fallen soldiers... An act that their current emperor himself is even ashamed of, refusing to visit the shrine and pay respect.

Sorry buddy, but your weeb fantasy about Japan is absurd, they were a monstrous country at the time that regularly committed atrocities, just like Nazi Germany.

[Kaleredar]

The U.S. government made up a phony attack to garner public support for the war. Trying to blame anyone else is mental.

...So now you're saying the Vietnam war and the Indochina war were US conspiracies.

Alrighty then.

[Slant]

Japan raped its way across China and was in league with a nation that wanted to commit genocide on those it deemed impure, alcoholics, addicts and so on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

They did horrible things that make the atomic bombs look like vacation. While the civilians were not directly guilty ( they still fed those soldiers, produced their weapons and ensured they had a place to retreat to ) of all those things, they were still what kept the army afloat.

So why exactly is it wrong, in a war against an axis of tyrants and psychopaths, to fight fire with fire? Had the Axis won we'd have seen hundreds of millions killed due to their race. Two atomic bombs are a small price to pay in order to quell that evil for good.


What kind of General could look the wives of his fallen soldiers in the eyes and say

'' We could've ended the war sooner. Your husband would still be alive, had I bombed their cities. But I put the lives of their civilians, the ones that feed the army, above that of my own men. "

Holy hell, I'd see that as treason. As the military leader your main goal is to kill the enemy and protect your own men/nation. And that's precisely what they did.

Nobody is giving the US shit for this. Not the Japanese, not even the Russians.

[NineSpine]

Other military personnel at the time thought otherwise. Hindsight is 20/20.

"When I asked General MacArthur about the decision to drop the bomb, I was surprised to learn he had not even been consulted. What, I asked, would his advice have been? He replied that he saw no military justification for the dropping of the bomb. The war might have ended weeks earlier, he said, if the United States had agreed, as it later did anyway, to the retention of the institution of the emperor."
-Norman Cousins

"I think that the Japanese were ready for peace, and they already had approached the Russians and, I think, the Swiss. And that suggestion of [giving] a warning [of the atomic bomb] was a face-saving proposition for them, and one that they could have readily accepted. In my opinion, the Japanese war was really won before we ever used the atom bomb. Thus, it wouldn't have been necessary for us to disclose our nuclear position and stimulate the Russians to develop the same thing much more rapidly than they would have if we had not dropped the bomb."
-Ralph Bard (Sec. of the Navy)

"It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons."
-Admiral William D. Leary

It was a political decision, not a military decision. The idea was to intimidate Russia, and all it ended up doing was encouraging them to develop their own.

[Deleted]

Nagasaki and Hiroshima was spectacular: one bomb destroyed city, but USA was carpet bombing Tokio few months earlier and more people died in one attack than Hiroshima Nagasaki combined ( or at least numbers were close).

[Cyanu]

states are mostly amoral but they still need to justify their actions and convince their people and if possible outsiders of the 'morality' of their actions because without internal support the war effort collapses

the only 'shit' here is the nationalist propaganda they've been feeding you to justify the act, just try to imagine if the USSR did this what you would be saying about it

using nukes on military targets with some civilians as collateral damage would be morally debatable, using nukes on cities with civilians being essentially the primary targets is not

after was japan the actual target of the bombs or was it more of a message to USSR and the world about who's the new boss?

again just try to imagine if the USSR used nukes on cities what would we be saying about it now and how would you personally react to arguments about how nuking cities saved lives

[NineSpine]

It's usually people in the US giving the shit.

It's mostly driven by the multiculturalist movements that don't know history and blame white male Americans for everything that's ever gone wrong. To those people, America invented slavery - ignoring its existence in, I don't know, every civilization ever. They also only know about the US using nuclear bombs because that's impossible to miss, and they ignore the countless atrocities committed by the Japanese leading up to the nukes.

If you go to a liberal college in the US, they spend a lot of time teaching you about who was discriminating against who, but they mostly ignore actual history because they're only interested in the discrimination/I'm a victim narrative.

Yeah Dwight Eisenhower and General MacArthur were just beta cuck SJWs.

[ItachiZaku]

random idiots on the internet.

Yep, that's the one.

And yet, Gary Hellscream catches heat for it as well.

[NineSpine]

...So now you're saying the Vietnam war and the Indochina war were US conspiracies.

Alrighty then.

I'm sorry that nobody ever taught you about the Gulf of Tonkin. Here's the wikipedia article to get started:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident

[Selastan]

"...the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing."
-President Dwight D. Eisenhower

We asked them for surrender after Hiroshima, and they said no. Then Nagasaki happened, they agreed, and even then seemed reluctant. The PEOPLE were ready to surrender, it was just the authority figures that were unwilling. According to MacArthur, (the greatest man in history) the Japanese people were very helpful and eager to help the occupation force. They were the ones tired of war and ready for peace, but they loved their Emperor so much that they would sacrifice everything as long as he determined war was the best course of action. Makes you respect the Japanese tenacity.

[Destump]

Why is the life of a conscripted soldier less sacred than that of civilians? What's the difference between bombing Nagasaki and bombing the army?

what's the difference between flying a plane in a military base and flying a plane in the world trade center? ...

[schwarzkopf]

Just because someone does something shitty doesn't mean you get a free pass to do something shitty as well.

Saving millions of lives isn't that shitty a deal. Japanese would NOT surrender, it wasn't in their nature.

The only thing I'd have done differently is give notice of target 1, and that target would be Mt Fuji. Something culturally significant with little in the way of casualties. But even that might not have had the impact - it may have just enraged them more. No-one knows really.