Applying to top Guilds - Being honest or just too salty ?

[Shihao]

How can it be a top-50 guild when people are consistently dying to easy mechanics? o_O

That sounded strange to me too. A top-50 guild today is 9/10M and I don't think that was achieved by failing simple mechanics.

[wowaccounttom]

There is one or a couple of "you" in every raid: "I'm just better than everyone else", "We could be so much further in progression if everyone played like me".

Personally, that would already disqualify you from any application because - contrary to so many raid groups in game - a high-quality raid should work as a team. Playing to the strengths of your class, and analyzing WHY people die to stuff should be more important than "I am so much better".

lol maybe at the top 50,000 level... at the 20s, we dont care if you are dying, get on, raid, or gtfo.

[Halicia]

How can it be a top-50 guild when people are consistently dying to easy mechanics? o_O Is the guild split up into multiple raiding teams and therefor you're raiding with the weaker team, or?

Prolly in the farm/trial group til he showed a bit of reliability... or it could just be a matter that he wasn't aware of what was going on.

Sometimes deaths are called for. "Offtank's dead and we don't have a brez up.... Joe Melee, we're gonna need you to taunt in 40 seconds so the one tank can drop his stacks, ok ?"

Random Nobody "OMGWTF Joe just died to easy mechanics he's so bad!!!!"

[friedmudkipz]

That sounded strange to me too. A top-50 guild today is 9/10M and I don't think that was achieved by failing simple mechanics.

It's a matter of perspective. Raiding at a top 50 level, you expect to be able to handle mechanics reliably after a relatively small number of pulls. Easy to get upset if that doesn't happen. He's (probably) not talking about wiping 100 times to botanist because people are getting hit by solar collapse or something ridiculous like that, it's probably more like people missing interrupts on elisande or failing conjunctions on augur after over a hundred pulls on each.

[Vaelorian]

Hello dear mmo-champion forum,

recently i've been feeling very uncomfortable in my progress guild. Not because i dont like the people but simply because they just aren't playing on the same skill level. I'm raiding in a World top 50ish guild and our raidnights usually consist of people dying to easy mechanics that should be sorted out after 20ish pulls at most. Yet still people are dying to not paying attention or what ever.

Now to my question. When applying to a top 20 world guild how can you be honest about your reasons for leaving previous guild without sounding just salty? I mean the reason you want to step up to a better ranked guild usually is because you want to play with players on your own skill level.

On another note is it even this way? Are the players in world top 10 top 20 guilds (excluding guilds with just way more raidtime) considerably better ? Or do they just put more time into ptr to put some of time of the learningphase outside of the realprogress?

I value raidquality much higher than lets say ranking. So i would rather only raid 3-4 days a week while being very efficient than wipe my ass off due to 10 idiots who are just slow in the head and take super long to get their jobs correct.

What are your experiences?

Very easy question. The answer is: You left your former guild because your goals and theirs were not the same. You had different expectations and moved on.

This is not a lie. It is an adult answer and if they want a more in depth story, tell them that you rather not explain further because you don't want to make them sound bad or make you seem like an asshole. If they do press for an answer, tell them the truth. They can always go to your former guildmaster.

If I go on what you sound like, the former GM will have a story to tell.

Coming to that part: You were in a top 50 guild and not everyones skill level was the same. While that never 100% happens, it is strange to me that you mention that. Why? Well the higher you get into the worldranks, the more equal the skill level is. So this can mean 2 things:
1. when I was in those ranks with my guild during Cata, I was lucky to have more or less equally skilled people
2. due to guilds declining and overal population declining, the top 200 guilds are now more or less the guilds that were top 300- 500 in Cata and thus not that great.

Also a top guild with the potential of endless wipes are sorta known to "bash" their skulls against a boss untill it falls/clicks.

In my experience top 200 guilds usually spend more time on the game and in the game then anyone else. So they get more practice at playing their class and are better. But obviously they also need to have a knack for WoW too. You can give my neighbour 80 hours of WoW a week and all the websites and addons for a year and he probably would still be level 80 by the time the year ends. He just does not get it - he might have fun tho.

[yeto]

Only the elite of the elite may post on. MMO-C. This honestly reminds me to the current LoL problem. 75% of their player base is in bronze and silver. Yet, everyone claims to be diamond and above.

>>>>>>im in bronze<<<<<<

[Vaelorian]

Only the elite of the elite may post on. MMO-C. This honestly reminds me to the current LoL problem. 75% of their player base is in bronze and silver. Yet, everyone claims to be diamond and above.

I think a lot of people on mmo champion has been - at one time or another - in a top guild. The game is old guys, plenty of chances for a lot of people to get into the right guild.

That said, I was once silver or gold. I just did not like the proving grounds. Found it a waste of time and no prestige of any kind because no one would see it on the outside. So why bother?

[Deleted]

when he says he's top 50, he probably means top 50 US

[Deleted]

Playing in a guild that is about rank 70-90 right now. I can confirm that there are absolutely terrible players in our raid team that shouldn't even be in a top 500 guild under normal circumstances. But they are in the team, because they are either the buddies of GM from real life or they come as a package deal (kick them and the 2-3 others will also leave). So yeah, it doesnt matter if it's a world rank 1000 or rank 10 guild, there will always be the players that carry, and a majority that get carried.

The main difference between a top 50-100 and top 20 guild is, most of the time, the amount of time they raid. People just tend to overestimate players on top guilds and become a fanboy, while they are actually nothing special. They can just raid 24/7 for months and that's simply the only reason that guy is playing there.

[Polarthief]

I'm raiding in a World top 50ish guild and our raidnights usually consist of people dying to easy mechanics that should be sorted out after 20ish pulls at most. Yet still people are dying to not paying attention or what ever.

The bolded parts don't go together. Does not compute.

Should really ask GM/RL to kick these people, if you're truly in a "World Top 50 Guild". That kind of shit should not be tolerated in such a high skill environment.

I mean fuck, my guild is 9/10H (HEROIC, NOT MYTHIC) and even we sit people who repeatedly die to mechanics or pull too low numbers.

[Marrilaife]

I mean fuck, my guild is 9/10H (HEROIC, NOT MYTHIC) and even we sit people who repeatedly die to mechanics or pull too low numbers.

I'm pretty sure if we pulled a few people who "fail" in let's say 9/10 mythic guild out and put them in yours, they'd still be heroes in your guild, the performance is not a binary status, it's a continuum, and even world best guilds don't clear mythic in 1 day because guess what, they wipe, and wipe repeatedly. If a top guild admits they had 200+ pulls on mythic Augur, Elisande and Gul'dan I'm pretty sure things don't go smoothly there and people do mistakes. Just the scale of them is different than in a guild that takes 200 pulls to kill mythic Krosus, or heroic Gul'dan, or whatever else.

[Deleted]

What are your experiences?

Here's the thing - they're all *desperate* for finding recruits who can play on top level. Warm bodies to fill the roster > how good they actually are. Couple of cancelled raids due to missing people and the guilds start falling apart, because they're full of people who "must win". In general there are not many people who are willing to hardcore raid and devote that kind of time in the game. So the top guilds have constant revolving doors, low player retention rates because not many can play the game that much and people constantly burn out and because they must keep the raids rolling.

So they'll trial pretty much anyone, who has decent logs and is willing to subject themselves into slavery. I'm sure you'll get a trial spot just by asking.

[Usagi Senshi]

"Sup bitches, give me all the loots and I'll show you mofos what a top 20 deeps to the knees can do!"

Works every time!

[Deleted]

How can it be a top-50 guild when people are consistently dying to easy mechanics? o_O

It's quite often just progress simply through invested time/effort. This is especially true for the lower tier (20-200) "top guilds". They simply repeat the encounters enough times so even Joe Firestander gets it. They compensate with time where they lack the skill.

[roahn the warlock]

Hello dear mmo-champion forum,

recently i've been feeling very uncomfortable in my progress guild. Not because i dont like the people but simply because they just aren't playing on the same skill level. I'm raiding in a World top 50ish guild and our raidnights usually consist of people dying to easy mechanics that should be sorted out after 20ish pulls at most. Yet still people are dying to not paying attention or what ever.

Now to my question. When applying to a top 20 world guild how can you be honest about your reasons for leaving previous guild without sounding just salty? I mean the reason you want to step up to a better ranked guild usually is because you want to play with players on your own skill level.

On another note is it even this way? Are the players in world top 10 top 20 guilds (excluding guilds with just way more raidtime) considerably better ? Or do they just put more time into ptr to put some of time of the learningphase outside of the realprogress?

I value raidquality much higher than lets say ranking. So i would rather only raid 3-4 days a week while being very efficient than wipe my ass off due to 10 idiots who are just slow in the head and take super long to get their jobs correct.

What are your experiences?

Coming from a business perspective. Use positives for leaving, not negatives. Focus on you and not them. Say things like "I think I would do better in a guild with more focus on aggressive progression" "I didn't feel I fit into the slightly more casual feel of my current guild and am looking to apply my skills in a more demanding environment."

[anaxie]

The bolded parts don't go together. Does not compute.

Should really ask GM/RL to kick these people, if you're truly in a "World Top 50 Guild". That kind of shit should not be tolerated in such a high skill environment.

I mean fuck, my guild is 9/10H (HEROIC, NOT MYTHIC) and even we sit people who repeatedly die to mechanics or pull too low numbers.

It does compute because it does happen.

and sometime you will just have one of those days.


Example.

US 11th back in MoP.

Farmed Heroic Garrosh what? 15+ times by that point could clear place in 4 hours.
Missing a healer or something or swap for a brand new tank on Spoils. Spend 3+ hours one time on a Thok farm kill... that was horrific.

Lei Shen Heroic progression. Rofl. no comment. jajajaja

[Deleted]

Playing in a guild that is about rank 70-90 right now. I can confirm that there are absolutely terrible players in our raid team that shouldn't even be in a top 500 guild under normal circumstances. But they are in the team, because they are either the buddies of GM from real life or they come as a package deal (kick them and the 2-3 others will also leave). So yeah, it doesnt matter if it's a world rank 1000 or rank 10 guild, there will always be the players that carry, and a majority that get carried.

The main difference between a top 50-100 and top 20 guild is, most of the time, the amount of time they raid. People just tend to overestimate players on top guilds and become a fanboy, while they are actually nothing special. They can just raid 24/7 for months and that's simply the only reason that guy is playing there.

There's a massive difference between guilds at the very top (1-3), guilds below that (4-6), guilds below that (7-20) and the rest, and not just in terms of alts/time commitment but also tactics,mentality,performance,attitude,repeat-ability,etc.

Let me know when you kill an endboss without a video out.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Well I have to say if your guild is world top 50 I have myt doubts that these people are as bad as you feel they are. You don't just happen upon top 50. But I mean you might be a lot better than them because the gap between top 50 and 20 is pretty big because the closer you are to the tip of the spear the sharper the edge. I really don't know your situation and couldn't really know. But I would say it is likely a little bit of both because that is usually the case. You are likely being a little to judgemental of the people making mistakes because I get the feeling no matter where you are they happen. I mean even world first guilds take 100s of pulls sometimes to kill bosses and we can all admit only a few bosses have massively complex mechanics. It is usually a combo of many simpler but more punishing ones.

But on the other foot if you are noticing it and not making those same mistakes you likely are a bit better of a player and again every guild has those people. You know the players that are just a bit better than the others and if you happen to be one in your current guild then you are. There are advantages to this of course. I mean as long as you aren't acting like a total jerk and are generally hated you likely are respected and a little higher on the reward lists which are nice perks. Also being top 50 means you are getting the kills and getting the kills done in a timely fashion. I mean 90% of guilds won't every see those kills and you are getting those kills faster than 80-90% of those guilds that are getting the kills.

So you are not in a terrible situation is what I am trying to say. But if you feel you can do better, if you know you can meet the requirements of the guilds above you, and if you wanting to do it than you should. But I would do it in a professional way. I mean it sounds like you don't hate these people. You just want to push further and if they are really your friends you should do it with respect and if they are really your friends then they should understand and allow you to try to push forward. I know usually on the internet things don't work like this but it is always worth a shot.

[BigAinCA]

when he says he's top 50, he probably means top 50 US

maybe top 50 server?

[Deleted]

That sounded strange to me too. A top-50 guild today is 9/10M and I don't think that was achieved by failing simple mechanics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ixYhaR3kDs