Why is America given shit over Nagasaki and Hiroshima?

[Adam Jensen]

Can we just accept that all sides did terrible things in WWII and move on? Laying blame for events that were 75+ years ago at this point is just stupid.

Americans and British relentlessly bombed civilian populations (the bombing of Tokyo actually caused more death and devastation than Hiroshima.)
The Japanese brutally raped and pillaged China (most memorably in Nanking)
The Germans had the Holocaust
The Russians kept the nations they "liberated" and essentially forced them into the Warsaw Pact later on

[Independent voter]

1. Brits were actively helping the US to build the bomb, if it weren't for the Brits we wouldn't have had the bomb until after the war. You can go online and find photos of British scientists working at Los Alamos.

2. All four parties involved had a nuke program, Britain, Soviets, US and Japan. Nobody knew how far Japan was along with their nuke.

3. Potsdam declaration said two important things

a. "We call upon the government of Japan to proclaim now the unconditional surrender of all Japanese armed forces, and to provide proper and adequate assurances of their good faith in such action. The alternative for Japan is prompt and utter destruction."

(this is the allies saying "we have the nuke and will use it")

b. The second thing is what wasn't said. No mention was made of the Emperor, in diplomatic speak this meant that the Japanese Emperor could stay.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potsdam_Declaration

Ten days before Hiroshima millions of leaflets with the Potsdam Declaration were dropped all over Japan. By this time the US had powerful AM radio transmitters that could reach all of Japan and the announcers told listeners about the Declaration. Yes it was illegal for the Japanese to listen to US radio or read the leaflets but everyone in Japan knew of the Declaration.

The Japanese decided to "kill it with silence" a Japanese negotiating tactic. They didn't respond to the Potsdam Declaration.

Hiroshima was nuked.

Also when the Emperor finally declared he was going to surrender, military officers attempted a coup, they hoped to imprison the emperor and continue the war. The coup was defeated.

Also when Germany was defeated they sent all of their processed Uranium to Japan via submarine, like 100s of kilos of the stuff. The German uboaters decided to surrender to US forces and the two Japanese officers on board committed ritual suicide. Much of the captured uranium was used on the bomb dropped on Nagasaki.

LOS ALAMOS, N.M. — When a captured Nazi U-boat arrived at Portsmouth, N.H., toward the end of World War II, the American public was never told the significance of what was on board.

The German submarine was carrying 1,200 pounds of uranium oxide, ingredients for an atomic bomb, bound for Japan. Two Japanese officers on board were allowed to commit suicide.

Two months later, in the New Mexico desert, the United States detonated the first atomic bomb, a prelude to the obliteration of two Japanese cities.

Unknown to many of the people who built those bombs, not to mention the public, Japan was scrambling to build its own nuclear weapon.


http://articles.latimes.com/1997-06-..._1_atomic-bomb

Canadian involvement, August 1945:

News of the atomic bombing of Hiroshima reaches Ottawa just before noon on August 6, 1945. As a member of the Combined Policy Committee, Howe expects it. In a prepared statement, he says:

''It is a particular pleasure for me to announce that Canadian scientists have played an intimate part, and have been associated in an effective way, with this great scientific development.'

Three days later, on August 9, Nagasaki is bombed.



Australian physicist Mark Oliphant was a key figure in the launching of both the British and United States nuclear weapons programmes

He was knighted by the Queen for his work.

[Adam Jensen]

Although I do believe that nuking Japan was the lesser of two evils. It ended the war much faster and with fewer deaths than Operation Downfall was projected to cause. We were looking at war that wouldn't end until winter of 1946 with a million American men dead and much more on the Japanese side.

Of course this is still speculation since we don't know if the Emperor would have surrendered Japan in time to stop the invasion or not.

[Wildtree]

Also when Germany was defeated they sent all of their processed Uranium to Japan via submarine, like 100s of kilos of the stuff. The German uboaters decided to surrender to US forces and the two Japanese officers on board committed ritual suicide. Much of the captured uranium was used on the bomb dropped on Nagasaki

Sounds like a outtake from the History channel? LOL

When Germany was defeated, it was defeated, period.
The high command in Berlin, and the communication channels were destroyed then. The surrender was ultimate.

I like that word you invented there.... uboaters.. Sailors man, they were sailors.

The U-234, that's the boat you're talking about. They weren't captured.
They were ordered by Admiral Doenitz (who was the de facto leader after Hitler's demise) to surface and surrender, as well as all other remaining u-boats that aren't docked in any harbor.
Without that order they would have made it to Japan. After the order to surrender, they set course to the US coast, and made it all the way to Nova Scotia.

[Xeones]

Although I do believe that nuking Japan was the lesser of two evils. It ended the war much faster and with fewer deaths than Operation Downfall was projected to cause. We were looking at war that wouldn't end until winter of 1946 with a million American men dead and much more on the Japanese side.

Of course this is still speculation since we don't know if the Emperor would have surrendered Japan in time to stop the invasion or not.

Even if they had surrendered it wouldn't have been an unconditional surrender. At that point you open the "what if" scenarios. Few of which I see ending as well as the result we arrived at with the bombs securing that unconditional surrender.

[Independent voter]

Sounds like a outtake from the History channel? LOL

When Germany was defeated, it was defeated, period.
The high command in Berlin, and the communication channels were destroyed then. The surrender was ultimate.

I like that word you invented there.... uboaters.. Sailors man, they were sailors.

The U-234, that's the boat you're talking about. They weren't captured.
They were ordered by Admiral Doenitz (who was the de facto leader after Hitler's demise) to surface and surrender, as well as all other remaining u-boats that aren't docked in any harbor.
Without that order they would have made it to Japan. After the order to surrender, they set course to the US coast, and made it all the way to Nova Scotia.

The German uboat "sailors" decided to surrender to the Americans which a lot of Germans did if given a choice. The 100kg of processed uranium they were carrying was used in the bomb dropped on Nagasaki.

[Wildtree]

The German uboat "sailors" decided to surrender to the Americans which a lot of Germans did if given a choice. The 100kg of processed uranium they were carrying was used in the bomb dropped on Nagasaki.

ya ya.. I didn't question the portion about the uranium oxide. That was the ships one and only mission.
And yep, they sailed to the US coast for the reason to surrender to US forces, since they were scared of the others. Didn't trust especially the Brits, given their berserk retaliation mission prior to the end of the war.

Why I mentioned the crew being sailors, because that's what they've been. They all trained on actual sailing ships. The U-boat crews were special forces.
Kinda like your navy seals..

[shrunken]

Japan raped its way across China and was in league with a nation that wanted to commit genocide on those it deemed impure, alcoholics, addicts and so on...

When these actions are scrutinized, they're invariably done so by people so far removed from that era that they can't even conceive the notion of a conflict so massive and with such high stakes. Most of them can't even remember when the world wasn't completely connected, let alone some countries having a foot squarely in the 18th & 19th centuries still.

[Miow]

Because chemical war.
And yes, in the 'western world' we tend to forget Japans atrocities against China.

But it's simple why we don't hear it so much.
Asian country on Asian country.
Western country on Asian country.. Chemical warfare.

Do you hear most news from your family or your neighbors family?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Why is America given shit on most of its choices?

Well mostly because we are usually willing to do what everyone really wants to be done but that the others (future shit slingers usually from Europe) themselves are either to cowardly to do or to weak to do so themselves. Then they stand on the moral high ground and pretend that we in America are the evil empire while secretly their very own governments were all on board and supporting the decision without question all along. Minus accept in the press. But it is hard to deny you didn't support a war for example when troops, supplies, and command posts are in and moving through your nation to directly support the conflict without opposition beyond words. Not to mention you also supplying troops, supplies, and intel as well.

The connection with that and the nuclear attacks in Japan is simple. Of the European nations that were even able to wobble to their feet after the end of the war in Europe none of them wanted to get involved in the remaining war in Japan. Even as half ass-ed-ly as they would have. Hell they likely didn't want the American armies in Europe to leave either in fear of the Russians just deciding to take the whole cake. Not to mention the Manhattan project was a collaboration between the United States, Canada, and Britain. They all knew exactly what they were building and exactly what it was going to do and why it was being developed and if they didn't the tests let them know before deployment. The thing is again out of those 3 only one nation really had the means to safely deliver the weapon and had the balls to do so. It saved millions of Japanese, American, and other Allied nations military personal and civilians alike and it was a simple choice to drop the fucker twice. Really we wish we hadn't needed to drop it at all. Or if we did just once. But the Japanese were extremely stubborn and fanatical. They were worried more about saving face in defeat because of their sense of honor instead of just giving it up like they wanted to for a while. It cost them. No doubt it also had political reasons involved to keep the Russians out of Japan and allowed the WEST set the world stage to allow the WEST to dominate for the next 75 years.

[Marcellus1986]

It's more cowardly to drop a nuke on a civilian population than to actually get your hands dirty and fight face to face on a battlefield. What atrocities were committed by Europeans back then? I assume you aren't including Germany and the Holocaust because the Germans were the bad guys and you will really struggle to find any Europeans let alone Germans that defend the actions of Germany under Hitlers rule.



You never heard of a war crime? Or do you think that war crimes are just something from fiction?



If you read the whole post instead of jumping to the end like a moron, I did state that 32 years after the act, the Geneva convention was updated to include incidents just like this. That means that by today's standards, you are defending a war crime. There is a reason that dropping nukes on civilian populations was not included in the Geneva convention in 1945 and that's because nobody knew they existed! Just because it was outlawed after it happened does not mean it was lawful back then.

Also:


It is part of the Geneva convention. As you can see above.

It wasn't part of it in 1945, hence your illogical rambling about it being a war crime. The world has changed in 72 years, imagine that!

You can't use your circular logic to call anyone pointing that out is being a defender of a "war crime" as the definition after the fact doesn't define it as a war crime, because AT THE TIME, the Geneva Convention didn't consider such an attack a war crime.

Total war has no innocents.

[Allybeboba]

And in both cases, they purposefully attacked innocent civilians in order to get at more strategic targets. Both the Pentagon and WTC were strategic targets. If we are going to wipe our hands away with Hiroshima and Nagasaki, then we don't have much room to complain about 9/11. Personally, I'd rather complain about both.

The American people by and large don't complain about 9/11. No more than we complain about December 7th. We cut the head off the snake and it withered and died.

[Deleted]

You never heard of a war crime? Or do you think that war crimes are just something from fiction?

War crimes are just an excuse to claim a higher moral ground, by condemning your enemy of doing something immoral, thus justifying anything you will do to him. Nobody in Americas administration has or will be in jail for war crimes, because only losers commit war crimes.

Anyway, it's sad to see the mindset on display here. Trying to justify this act with filmsy excuses that don't make any sense. The cognitive disonance is real, when they are accusing Japan of being terrible, as if this somehow justifies comitting a much greater atrocity. As if americans have anything to do with the Japanese-chinese conflict which has been going on for a lot longer than WW2 anyway.

It's these same people who will find excuses for why Lybia was completely destroyed, or for why the US is arming terrorists on Syrian soil. While at the same time remaining silent at the fact US supports Saudia Arabia, a country much worse than both.

Logic and the reasoning behind these actions don't matter. The intentions or morality do not matter. The only thing that matters to these people is upholding their ingrained belief their country is somehow better, more justified and ''good''.

[Allybeboba]

Because chemical war.
And yes, in the 'western world' we tend to forget Japans atrocities against China.

But it's simple why we don't hear it so much.
Asian country on Asian country.
Western country on Asian country.. Chemical warfare.

Do you hear most news from your family or your neighbors family?

Didn't Germany use chemical warfare? Didn't they also gas millions and millions of innocent people? And Americans saved Europe from those fiends. Do we need start a thread on that subject? It would get locked quickly wouldn't it since it isn't America bashing.
The atom bomb is not chemical warfare.

[Wildtree]

Didn't Germany use chemical warfare? Didn't they also gas millions and millions of innocent people? And Americans saved Europe from those fiends. Do we need start a thread on that subject? It would get locked quickly wouldn't it since it isn't America bashing.
The atom bomb is not chemical warfare.

Due to events in the past, of which WW1 and WW2 are a part of, the use of so called ABC weaponry has been severely regulated/outlawed.

ABC..
Atomic
Biological
Chemical

[Moozart]

what has this thread turned into?

[Violetti]

And Americans saved Europe from those fiends.

You cant make this shit up, is this really what schools teach in america?

[Allybeboba]

Due to events in the past, of which WW1 and WW2 are a part of, the use of so called ABC weaponry has been severely regulated/outlawed.

ABC..
Atomic
Biological
Chemical

Has the US used a nuke on a population since the rule was written?
Did a European nation use a chemicals on people since the rule was written?

Yes or no will suffice.

[Deleted]

Why do you say you're sorry when you aren't?

i would really love to answer this question as i would like, but unfortunately mmo-c doesnt allow for free speech only on subjects it sees fit.
so for the sake of another infraction & 3 day ban, im going to have to claim the 5th.

[Allybeboba]

You cant make this shit up, is this really what schools teach in america?

June 6, 1944. I suggest you look it up.

Answer the other questions about Germany and chemical weapons as well. Did they kill millions of innocent people or not? Yes or no.