WoW became a horrible boring grindfest

[Niwes]

Sounds like you just don't enjoy WoW anymore OP.

you got it. not THAT form of wow hack n slay. i wanna play a mmorpg. thats the reason i played wow over a decade. i didnt signed my contract years ago with "yes, i wanna play a brainless rng grindfest".

[Sesshomaru]

simple and plain NO. because

- tryhard 2-3 hours with CC in TBC dungeons like magisters terrace or shattered halls (regardless how nonsensic you find this) is NOT a grind
- be carefull when leveling vanilla to not overpull was NOT a grind
- vanilla elite mobs and/or elite quests was NOT a grind
- farming in "hard mob" places in TBC was NOT a grind

Counter strike: Other than Artifact Power (and relics to a certain degree (yes, I purposely left out the Rep req for CoS/Arway, but they have removed the grind for the rest of your characters on the account, stating to my last few words in this paragraph, although nice for the Artifact Power)) being required, the rest is completely optional and is therefore not a grind, in your words.

Have you forgotten the ridiculous rep items which you had to acquire in order to get further down the roads in TBC? The keys? The Karazhan pre-req quest line? TK & SSC? BT? Gold farming for flight in TBC and Wrath?
My personal opinion, though.

[Psilo]

You forgot PvP, which has its own problems ATM... but that is beside the point.

If you want a challenge, try playing against other players.

[IceMan1763]

But that's the MMORPG genre for you.
It was always like this and this is the best iteration of it from all the expansions.

It's not really a WoW problem, is a MMO genre problem that has not evolved with the times.

The thing is though, this iteration is, in fact, quite different from previous iterations of this very game.

Unless you're one of those white knight deniers who runs around saying "this is how it's always been hurr durr nubs l2p"

[Niwes]

Yes. Next expansion will be No content

is THIS cheap silly machine-created content really THAT better than no content? seriously, i felt not THAT more bad in WoD, when there was no content.

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But that's the MMORPG genre for you.
It was always like this and this is the best iteration of it from all the expansions.

It's not really a WoW problem, is a MMO genre problem that has not evolved with the times.

as i showed a few posts above: no.

wether this is the mmorpg genre, nor was wow always like this.

[Deleted]

I'm not bored but dungeons and world content become extremely outdated with gear. Years ago if a dps raid geared pulled before the tank in a heroic dungeon he died, even with his gear level. Now a dungeon geared dps can clear a dungeon alone. This is a problem.

MoP TW is clearly not well balanced. They have the tools to make it harder or easier as it scales the gear whatever it is. So yeah, this is clearly their fault.

[Niwes]

The thing is though, this iteration is, in fact, quite different from previous iterations of this very game.

Unless you're one of those white knight deniers who runs around saying "this is how it's always been hurr durr nubs l2p"

yep. true imo. WoD was: no content. Legion is: autogenerated brainless grind content. everywhere.

my resulting oppinion of this 2 shots in the timeline is:

blizz dont want to make a good mmorpg. they want to make something that drive ppl long enough to grap some money, with least possible time and effort to build that. WoD didnt work. Put time and effort into their game isnt wanted. So cheap automatic standard shit grindfest Legion was the solution.

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Like it or not, but repetitive running of "content" has been a thing since 1996's Diablo (If you want to focus on Blizzard games). Be it doing things first on normal and then NM etc, be it farming res gear for MC and pots / foods / felwood plants. Be it the Silithus war effort. Be it AD rep to exhalted if you didn't want to pay the Naxx entry fee. Be it Baal runs ad Nauseum etc etc

Blizzard just got better and better at dangling the carrot. It has been some time. I know people don't like to hear it, but there are other genres and other MMOs that might just suit you more?

i agree to you with "there will be always repetitive content". and i agree to "after some repeats and/or overgearing everything becomes a boring repetitive grind". no question.

but have the first few iterations also be that brainless grindy, right away from the start up ?

thats the difference.

[Pull My Finger]

A completely nonsensical statement - de facto.

Over the years, WoW has progressively become more and more diverse. Nobody with a sane mind could deny that Blizzard has done a whole lot to shake up the same old basic concepts that MMOs are built upon - and more so than any other MMO on the market. To say that WoW "became" a boring grindfest is an objectively wrong statement, because it's evidently way more diversified and multi-faceted in the ways how it organizes, presents and substantiates the MMO grinding gameplay it's still very much based on.

You could say that it IS a boring grindfest - compared to Mario Kart or whatever. But to sit there and bemoan how it supposedly "became" that way, is complete nonsense.

[Haloswin]

yeah, we had a lot of threads lately about how much and how boring AP WQ/M+ grind is. But thats not the core i wanna discussing here.

Today i played Pandaland Timewalker Dungeons. While the TBC TW Dungeons, when introduced firsttime, have at least a little bit "challenge" bc at least it was a little bit spiky in terms of your life and incoming dmg. at least the heal had to ... heal. But this TW dungeons are a smash grindfest. Run (bash, rush) 10 min through the dungeon, kill every mob in under 1s and wait for dialogs to finish. Its just another absurd grind.

So, when i look at the game overall, at the moment, i nearly see massive brainless (aoe) grind literally eveywhere.

WQ: brainless grind
Worldboss: brainless grind
TW dungeons: brainless grind
HC/Normal dungeons: brainless grind
Quests: brainless grind
Mythic+: brainless (aoe) grind, with a very small movement skill part
LFR: brainless grind
Professions: brainless grind (via quests or gettin mats)
Leveling: brainless grind

Even normal raids are that forgiving that, with very little overgear, are nearly brainless grinds.

So, besides HC and Myth Raid, there is nothing in the game, even with the slightest form of challenge, that isnt a brainless grind. Even a +15 m+ is horrible grindy, without much challenge or even some form of tactic/cc or whatever. all base on heavy aoe grinding.

Ofc, MMORPGs are grindy by nature. And thats fine. But wow became a horrible stupid brainless grindfest in nearly every aspect of the game.

Horrible, imo.

What do you think? Is this whole brainless grindfest really fun for you? Longterm? Or do you think WoW is not a D3 grindfest? And why?

/discuss

I was excited when I saw your post and really wanted to read all of it but it soon became apparent that it was a horrible boring brainless grindfest....

Just wasn't fun

[HordeFanboy]

is THIS cheap silly machine-created content really THAT better than no content? seriously, i felt not THAT more bad in WoD, when there was no content.

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as i showed a few posts above: no.

wether this is the mmorpg genre, nor was wow always like this.

In wod I could raid normally. In legion I HAD TO do m+,wq,ap grinds,max artifact,prey to RNG god for good Legendarys to even start raiding.
(mythic raider perspective)

[Niwes]

A completely nonsensical statement - de facto.

Over the years, WoW has progressively become more and more diverse. Nobody with a sane mind could deny that Blizzard has done a whole lot to shake up the same old basic concepts that MMOs are built upon - and more so than any other MMO on the market. To say that WoW "became" a boring grindfest is an objectively wrong statement, because it's evidently way more diversified and multi-faceted in the ways how it organizes, presents and substantiates the MMO grinding gameplay it's still very much based on.

You could say that it IS a boring grindfest - compared to Mario Kart or whatever. But to sit there and bemoan how it supposedly "became" that way, is complete nonsense.

it got more facettes. correct.
it got more diversity. false.
bc every facette is tinted by the same grindy color.

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In wod I could raid normally. In legion I HAD TO do m+,wq,ap grinds,max artifact,prey to RNG god for good Legendarys to even start raiding.
(mythic raider perspective)

do you decide this a good thing ?
and do you decide this a good thing, when all that stuff,outside of the raid, have the same color?

[StationaryHawk]

The phrase "brainless grind" has lost all meaning to me now.

[Niwes]

The phrase "brainless grind" has lost all meaning to me now.

yeah. i understand. read my text again a few seconds ago. i have used this phrase a "little" to often it seems

[DaGhostDS]

It's always been a grind, not sure what WoW you ever played.

[dirtlits]

Grinds in WOW have been here since the start of the game. You even said so yourself in a post a while back ...

there are nearly ZERO posts about "vanilla had great immersion and great game design AND was a horrible grindfest or hard to organize raiding or unfinished and primitive".

Do you guys ever realized that both can be true at the same time ? cheeeeeesus...

So, nothing has changed as the game is still grindfest in a lot of ways, but still a pretty fun game. That been said, tell me something ... for someone that complains so much about the game, why do you still play? What it is about the game that outweighs all the other issues and makes it worth it to keep playing?

[Hashtronaut]

sounds like op might want to go over to an rp server

But seriously every game is "grindy" more or less, and video games tend to get pretty "brainless" and "easy" when you've played it for as long as a lot of people on this forum.
For new incoming players its probably not seen like this.

[Deleted]

The thing is though, this iteration is, in fact, quite different from previous iterations of this very game.

Unless you're one of those white knight deniers who runs around saying "this is how it's always been hurr durr nubs l2p"

Me? A white knight? I'm always crying about the present situation of MMO's. I even said "Yes" on the poll because i believe is true BUT is not a problem just to WoW. Is a problem to the MMO genre.

as i showed a few posts above: no.

wether this is the mmorpg genre, nor was wow always like this.

Yes it was. Not even pretend it wasn't. Lich King, Burning Crusade, Vanilla, it was always a grind to do something since the stone ages.

[kamuimac]

yeah, we had a lot of threads lately about how much and how boring AP WQ/M+ grind is. But thats not the core i wanna discussing here.

Today i played Pandaland Timewalker Dungeons. While the TBC TW Dungeons, when introduced firsttime, have at least a little bit "challenge" bc at least it was a little bit spiky in terms of your life and incoming dmg. at least the heal had to ... heal. But this TW dungeons are a smash grindfest. Run (bash, rush) 10 min through the dungeon, kill every mob in under 1s and wait for dialogs to finish. Its just another absurd grind.

So, when i look at the game overall, at the moment, i nearly see massive brainless (aoe) grind literally eveywhere.

WQ: brainless grind
Worldboss: brainless grind
TW dungeons: brainless grind
HC/Normal dungeons: brainless grind
Quests: brainless grind
Mythic+: brainless (aoe) grind, with a very small movement skill part
LFR: brainless grind
Professions: brainless grind (via quests or gettin mats)
Leveling: brainless grind

Even normal raids are that forgiving that, with very little overgear, are nearly brainless grinds.

So, besides HC and Myth Raid, there is nothing in the game, even with the slightest form of challenge, that isnt a brainless grind. Even a +15 m+ is horrible grindy, without much challenge or even some form of tactic/cc or whatever. all base on heavy aoe grinding.

Ofc, MMORPGs are grindy by nature. And thats fine. But wow became a horrible stupid brainless grindfest in nearly every aspect of the game.

Horrible, imo.

What do you think? Is this whole brainless grindfest really fun for you? Longterm? Or do you think WoW is not a D3 grindfest? And why?

/discuss

there is nothing to discuss really

rpgs including mmorpgs were always build around grinding

anyone who doesnt liek grinding is playing wrong game

go play some sort of fantasy arcade game if you want chalenge without grind.

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But seriously every game is "grindy" more or less, and video games tend to get pretty "brainless" and "easy" when you've played it for as long as a lot of people on this forum.
For new incoming players its probably not seen like this.

this is very true - i remembr when i swaped to FFXiV - even though i had thousands of hours experience in wow i felt like complete noob

some idiots simpyl forget that playing the same game for 13 years makes him/her mega experienced in it.

ofc stuff is easy when you put so many hours into learning and perfecting it.

[Tomana]

When the Activision bosses tell the devs that "time played" is the new measuring stick for how successful WOW is, this is what you get.

I think it should be "fun had" personally. Whether that person plays 10 hours per week or 40. At least, that would make the game good and not a horrible boring grindfest.

You can't objectively measure fun. Also, players can't have fun content all the time or they would run out of content pretty quickly.

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you got it. not THAT form of wow hack n slay. i wanna play a mmorpg. thats the reason i played wow over a decade. i didnt signed my contract years ago with "yes, i wanna play a brainless rng grindfest".

Would you rather play a brainless grindfest called EQ2? Or Lineage? Or FFXIV?
I mean it's easy to criticize VG makers, but please point me to an MMORPG that doesn't have grinds.

[IceMan1763]

You can't objectively measure fun. Also, players can't have fun content all the time or they would run out of content pretty quickly.

While that's true, "total hours played" is not a metric that leads to the development of quality content, in my opinion. When you use that as your starting goal, you tend to add systems that force people to do the same content over and over rather than simply create quality, engaging, and abundant actual content. Wrath and TBC objectively and measurably had twice or more of the actual content as subsequent xpacs and the systems team made concerted efforts to do away with something from the past they thought was not fun for the playerbase... grinds like needing to use 10 potions per fight and attunements.

Where there were systems that promoted logging in regularly, caps were in place to make tuning easier for the balance team and keep certain segments of the playerbase from consuming it all in one sitting. When your goal is "total hours played" however, those caps quickly disappear so you can promote that metric to your investors as "evidence" of "deep engagement".

The metric the Wrath team used was that 10 million plus people paid money out of their pocket every month to be a subscriber. That metric, in my opinion, is much more akin to a high quality and fun game.