Outlaw really that bad?

[Isoge]

@athanasios If you compare my alts and your amory you're able to see the difference how the AP was gathered. If i wouldnt had done so much LFR/Normal mode stuff i would had five or six legendaries instead of nine with this character too. Your char is lacking raidboss kills by a huge amout. And this is the key to get Legendaries, do all the content you can clear within a week and you'll be fine, starting with Emissaries, Worldbosses, and Raidbosses. It might be exhausting to do all the old stuff where you have a really low chance of getting upgrades, but for legendaries its worth it. Just do the stuff blizzard told us to do to obtain legendaries, it isnt that hard.

Its not exactly about the Artifact Power, but you can often take it as a reference or small hint if someone clears the content regulary. But it cant be used in your case, you just farmed Mythic+ for that AP.

With the Raidcontent available now.

EN LFR (7 bosses)
EN Normal (7 bosses)
EN HC (7 bosses)

ToV LFR (3 bosses)
ToV Normal (3 bosses)
ToV HC (3 bosses)

NH LFR (10 bosses)
NH Normal (10 bosses)
NH HC (10 bosses)

You are able to kill 60 Raidbosses in a week without considering Mythic. I mean two of my legendaries are from emissaries, two are from mythic+, one is from a mythic raidboss the other four are coming from normal mode raidbosses... if i wouldnt had cleared normal mode, i wouldnt have them.

Well, what kind of strategies can we get out of you when you have only cleared heroic nighthold? Who would want heroic strategies? You are so full of it that it's awful to see. https://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu...k/Skullcrusher here are the names of your guildies by the way. Nobody is going to harass them either, because nobody would give a crap about a 9/10 heroic guild.


https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done Here is one log from your fights. It's not hard to find even though you made sure to make all of them private.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done chronomatic hc

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done Trilliax hc

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done spellblade

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done krosus

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done and some normal fights with the mantle. Bis legendaries and still can't parse well :/

So tell me, what kind of strategies would we get out of these heroic runs? 90% of the people in here are already on mythic and some have cleared it.

[Deleted]

Well, what kind of strategies can we get out of you when you have only cleared heroic nighthold? Who would want heroic strategies? You are so full of it that it's awful to see. https://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu...k/Skullcrusher here are the names of your guildies by the way. Nobody is going to harass them either, because nobody would give a crap about a 9/10 heroic guild.


https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done Here is one log from your fights. It's not hard to find even though you made sure to make all of them private.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done chronomatic hc

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done Trilliax hc

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done spellblade

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done krosus

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done and some normal fights with the mantle. Bis legendaries and still can't parse well :/

So tell me, what kind of strategies would we get out of these heroic runs? 90% of the people in here are already on mythic and some have cleared it.

Well at those logs there arent any strategies, but you just embarassed the poeple im playing with by posting them. You can clearly see its a casual guild, you should take a look at the raid dps and ofc itemlvl%, those people are just nice people, not performers. And you just made them look bad in Public by posting these logs. Ofc my DPS numbers are also smaller when playing with these guys just because of fight length, individual fails and so on... but you are just here to blame some1, go on...

Now that you've found some logs (most old and inaccurate) you might want to discuss more and tell me what of my statements are wrong? You dont care anyway, you just are so freaking interested in those crap logs because you want to blame. Blame because i wrote something you dont wanted to read, and you arent even telling anyone what it was.

Ah ofc, here is another one:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jc6xYpLa3rRygMtd

have fun with it

[ymirsson]

So, those are you're leisure logs, but what do you do in serious raiding? I'm not here to nitpick your logs apart, im not even remotely smart enough for, but credibility comes with success, most of the time.

[Isoge]

Well at those logs there arent any strategies, but you just embarassed the poeple im playing with by posting them. You can clearly see its a casual guild, you should take a look at the raid dps and ofc itemlvl%, those people are just nice people, not performers. And you just made them look bad in Public by posting these logs. Ofc my DPS numbers are also smaller when playing with these guys just because of fight length, individual fails and so on... but you are just here to blame some1, go on...

Now that you've found some logs (most old and inaccurate) you might want to discuss more and tell me what of my statements are wrong? You dont care anyway, you just are so freaking interested in those crap logs because you want to blame. Blame because i wrote something you dont wanted to read, and you arent even telling anyone what it was.

Ah ofc, here is another one:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jc6xYpLa3rRygMtd

have fun with it

No, again you are only bringing up excuses. Nobody really cares about other people's parses unless they are trying to recruit or compare. And in this ROGUE forum, we are only interested in your parses for comparison sake. Nobody really cares what dps randomshadowpriest213 does on elisande when talking about outlaw rogues. There is nobody in here that is intent on harassing someone else for his bad parses. My point is, if you are going to make a claim then be ready to provide proof. And if your guildies were sooooooo embarrassed they would've done the same as you and privatized them. Guess you are the only one embarrassed here.

[Deleted]

So, those are you're leisure logs, but what do you do in serious raiding? I'm not here to nitpick your logs apart, im not even remotely smart enough for, but credibility comes with success, most of the time.

basically the same stuff, a bit better ofc because of gear fine tuning and stuff.. more solid in hitting 90th percentile though..

No, again you are only bringing up excuses. Nobody really cares about other people's parses unless they are trying to recruit or compare. And in this ROGUE forum, we are only interested in your parses for comparison sake. Nobody really cares what dps randomshadowpriest213 does on elisande when talking about outlaw rogues. There is nobody in here that is intent on harassing someone else for his bad parses. My point is, if you are going to make a claim then be ready to provide proof. And if your guildies were sooooooo embarrassed they would've done the same as you and privatized them. Guess you are the only one embarrassed here.

Why should i? My logs do proof my points. Any log of any Outlaw playing nearly ~90th percentile are proofing it. And i was saying it before you posted my logs. There are just bosses where Sin and Outlaw beat each other in performance. If you compare Mythic Average Boss damage 90th percentile:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...unt&dataset=90

the difference is insignificant. So you can basically say ok "Sin is better for Boss x/y". But you cant say Sin is a so much better spec always and in any fight... this has been proven multiple times by now...

Im not saying that there are no Issues with Outlaw. But the issues im seeing are not exlusively made by RTB. And i also wouldnt say that Outlaw isnt viable or behind by "200k" dps compared to Sin, from my experience its on average more about 50k behind in single target.. Warcraftlogs is saying 100k is more realistic but as i said not every player is playing on the same level. Also you cant really compare 90th percentile Outlaw to 90th percentile Sin thats impossible right now because of the huge difference in amount of parses, but you can definitely get an idea and you can get it without my personal Logs.

Thats the point. If the majority of player parses proof a statement of someone writing to these forums why is it necessary for you to see his personal logs if you don't intend to undermine his statement based of his individual capabilities playing the game? It's just rude to be honest.

[Deleted]

@athanasios If you compare my alts and your amory you're able to see the difference how the AP was gathered. If i wouldnt had done so much LFR/Normal mode stuff i would had five or six legendaries instead of nine with this character too. Your char is lacking raidboss kills by a huge amout. And this is the key to get Legendaries, do all the content you can clear within a week and you'll be fine, starting with Emissaries, Worldbosses, and Raidbosses. It might be exhausting to do all the old stuff where you have a really low chance of getting upgrades, but for legendaries its worth it. Just do the stuff blizzard told us to do to obtain legendaries, it isnt that hard.

Its not exactly about the Artifact Power, but you can often take it as a reference or small hint if someone clears the content regulary. But it cant be used in your case, you just farmed Mythic+ for that AP.

With the Raidcontent available now.

EN LFR (7 bosses)
EN Normal (7 bosses)
EN HC (7 bosses)

ToV LFR (3 bosses)
ToV Normal (3 bosses)
ToV HC (3 bosses)

NH LFR (10 bosses)
NH Normal (10 bosses)
NH HC (10 bosses)

You are able to kill 60 Raidbosses in a week without considering Mythic. I mean two of my legendaries are from emissaries, two are from mythic+, one is from a mythic raidboss the other four are coming from normal mode raidbosses... if i wouldnt had cleared normal mode, i wouldnt have them.

Fair hypothesis, but do you have any source to back it up? Just because a normal mode raid boss was the straw that broke the camels back, doesn't mean it contributed the most - You do have a monstrous amount of kills on the various EN modes, so might be merit to the madness...

My logic was that blizzard said that "harder content has higher chance of legendaries", so I grinded +10-15 M+ and thought that surely normal/lfr mode raids were classeified as easier content that than, but, well, probably not (apparently not).

"Just do the stuff blizzard told us to do to obtain legendaries, it isnt that hard."

Well, Blizzard told us m+ gives legendaries, so I did that.

That said, I guess I'll go clear a bunch of raids of trivial difficulty for a couple of weeks and see what happens, ain't got anything to lose.

Out of curiosity, seeing as Johnfrost is your alt, what is your main? A rogue too, or a different class?

[Deleted]

Well at those logs there arent any strategies, but you just embarassed the poeple im playing with by posting them. You can clearly see its a casual guild, you should take a look at the raid dps and ofc itemlvl%, those people are just nice people, not performers. And you just made them look bad in Public by posting these logs. Ofc my DPS numbers are also smaller when playing with these guys just because of fight length, individual fails and so on... but you are just here to blame some1, go on...

Now that you've found some logs (most old and inaccurate) you might want to discuss more and tell me what of my statements are wrong? You dont care anyway, you just are so freaking interested in those crap logs because you want to blame. Blame because i wrote something you dont wanted to read, and you arent even telling anyone what it was.

Ah ofc, here is another one:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jc6xYpLa3rRygMtd

have fun with it

I see you have some pretty good ranks here. But they include rolling 6 buffs. And if your raid members were a little better, they might have just done same dps as you did, although you had to roll a buff with 1.5% chance. If you had not rolled 6 buffs there would have been no chance to compete with people that can consistently push those numbers. That is just what sucks about outlaw. Skill does carry you a little but in the end it comes down to luck if you wanna get a good % as Outlaw. There is always someone who rolled 6 buffs and the best i've seen is 3 times in a single boss. But its possible to just get 6 buffs for the full duration of the boss and that makes you untouchable. But its just luck. You could play perfectly and roll like shit and do shit dps also.

[Vhernon]

I played outlaw since the start and i have bis legendarys on it, but when my guild was doing trys on mythic krosus and i did 550k dps, i decided to swap to assassinate to avoid getting benched and i did around 700k even without bis legendarys and my weapon was around 40, since then i switched to assassin and im not stressed anymore and im one of the top dps of my guild

[Stardrift]

Fun theme and visuals and everything. But its damage is just pure fucking shit.

[Ryuji]

I played outlaw since the start and i have bis legendarys on it, but when my guild was doing trys on mythic krosus and i did 550k dps, i decided to swap to assassinate to avoid getting benched and i did around 700k even without bis legendarys and my weapon was around 40, since then i switched to assassin and im not stressed anymore and im one of the top dps of my guild

You're one of many who seem to be experiencing that. Shows that it's an inherent problem if Outlaw is suffering in performance compared to Sub and Assassination in general. Most rogues I see now are usually assassination, outlaws are rare sights.

[Vhernon]

You're one of many who seem to be experiencing that. Shows that it's an inherent problem if Outlaw is suffering in performance compared to Sub and Assassination in general. Most rogues I see now are usually assassination, outlaws are rare sights.

I was expecting a spec with high risk high reward, but now i have to w8 to stars align to beat that warrior fury in single target

[Deleted]

I was expecting a spec with high risk high reward, but now i have to w8 to stars align to beat that warrior fury in single target

That's essentially the issue right now - "high risk high reward" currently has no real skill involved, and the "reward" part of the deal appears much, much less than the "risk" part. Essentially, RtB needs to be more balanced, somehow. And when we go off, we want to go off, not get 6buff "just to keep up" :x

[Xanatu]

It's hard to say I should be more "diligent". Diligence implies I'm skipping out on content I SHOULD be doing. I've missed 3 emissary caches since launch. Never missed a weekly max-level M+ cache. Cleared between 250 and 300 M+. I have roughly 350 raid boss kills, 150 on mythic difficulty. I'm not doing pure volume work as much as I could in regards to M+ grinding but outside of that I'm routinely doing the hardest content available week to week. 6 legendaries doesn't feel like a low amount but it's a fucking killer when only 1 of them is any good.

[Deleted]

@athanasios If you compare my alts and your amory you're able to see the difference how the AP was gathered. If i wouldnt had done so much LFR/Normal mode stuff i would had five or six legendaries instead of nine with this character too. Your char is lacking raidboss kills by a huge amout. And this is the key to get Legendaries, do all the content you can clear within a week and you'll be fine, starting with Emissaries, Worldbosses, and Raidbosses. It might be exhausting to do all the old stuff where you have a really low chance of getting upgrades, but for legendaries its worth it. Just do the stuff blizzard told us to do to obtain legendaries, it isnt that hard.

Its not exactly about the Artifact Power, but you can often take it as a reference or small hint if someone clears the content regulary. But it cant be used in your case, you just farmed Mythic+ for that AP.

With the Raidcontent available now.

EN LFR (7 bosses)
EN Normal (7 bosses)
EN HC (7 bosses)

ToV LFR (3 bosses)
ToV Normal (3 bosses)
ToV HC (3 bosses)

NH LFR (10 bosses)
NH Normal (10 bosses)
NH HC (10 bosses)

You are able to kill 60 Raidbosses in a week without considering Mythic. I mean two of my legendaries are from emissaries, two are from mythic+, one is from a mythic raidboss the other four are coming from normal mode raidbosses... if i wouldnt had cleared normal mode, i wouldnt have them.

And that proves what? Nothing... None of my legendarys is from raidbosses. Is that a prove that raidbosses dont drop legys? Ofc not. You can't make such statments with such a low statistic power.

[Deleted]

In regards of Legendaries, nobody can bring a proof or exact droprates. But you can talk to people and compare.

From talking to people and comparing numbers of drops, everything based on a weekly ID seems strong, which is also my personal experience playing multiple characters on different accounts. Missing out LFR/Normal/HC raid content is definitely skipping Content you should do. At this point with the massive amount of Raidbosses available i would be surprised if you dont get a legendary every 3rd ID by clearing up all raid content in every difficulty + emissaries + weekly M+ chest + Worldbosses. I've cleared even mythic+0 IDs up every week ffs.

You can give it a try or not, i dont really care what every single one of you is doing or not, its your choice. If you think its a waste of time - just dont do it. My playtime isnt limited... so ive chosen to clear the content.

[Leyre]

I decided to give no fucks and choose SnD, now im having fun with the spec

[ymirsson]

My playtime isnt limited...

And that makes a big difference. If not the biggest.

[Deleted]

And that makes a big difference. If not the biggest.

Yea it makes a difference, thats why i was telling it. But this is a MMO what have you expected? Every1 know its melting time away. You can clear all this content based on a 2hour playtime per day. Except for Mythic Raid progression/playtime you have to add that time on top of the 2hours / a day.

[Hodag]

I decided to give no fucks and choose SnD, now im having fun with the spec

And as long as you're doing Heroic, it works on most fights quite alright. You're not going to be doing Sin-levels of damage, but you're going to be parsing pretty well for your iLvL.