WoW became a horrible boring grindfest

[MoanaLisa]

I think it should be "fun had" personally. Whether that person plays 10 hours per week or 40. At least, that would make the game good and not a horrible boring grindfest.

Who gets to decide what the definition of 'fun' is? It's a subjective thing and your fun isn't mine. Or vice versa. And that's fine.

Haven't we had enough of these threads?

[Dormie]

lol, these threads just remind me how terrible most of you are. gtfo if you don't like it

[IceMan1763]

Who gets to decide what the definition of 'fun' is? It's a subjective thing and your fun isn't mine. Or vice versa. And that's fine.

Haven't we had enough of these threads?

The player should get to decide what fun is, not what the most efficient way to grind AP/TF procs/BIS legiondaries is.

That's what the devs have done to mythic and to some degree heroic raiders. Made grinding M+ virtually required for significant progress.

Now, if there was a rolling cap, efficiency wouldn't be that big of a deal unless you happened to be super short on time that week. You see, that's what was good with caps and valor/justice points, because there was a cap efficiency didn't matter that much.

[Sansnom]

Ofc, MMORPGs are grindy by nature. And thats fine. But wow became a horrible stupid brainless grindfest in nearly every aspect of the game.

Horrible, imo.

What do you think? Is this whole brainless grindfest really fun for you? Longterm? Or do you think WoW is not a D3 grindfest? And why?

I think you people need help. The problem is not the grind. The problem is not the game. The problem lies with the players.

If Blizzard remove the grind or put a cap. You people WILL STILL LOGIN to WoW and complain about nothing to do or something else.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The player should get to decide what fun is, not what the most efficient way to grind AP/TF procs/BIS legiondaries is.

That's what the devs have done to mythic and to some degree heroic raiders. Made grinding M+ virtually required for significant progress.

Now, if there was a rolling cap, efficiency wouldn't be that big of a deal unless you happened to be super short on time that week. You see, that's what was good with caps and valor/justice points, because there was a cap efficiency didn't matter that much.

its not the devs fault the players have no self control.

[Niwes]

Grinds in WOW have been here since the start of the game. You even said so yourself in a post a while back ...



So, nothing has changed as the game is still grindfest in a lot of ways, but still a pretty fun game. That been said, tell me something ... for someone that complains so much about the game, why do you still play? What it is about the game that outweighs all the other issues and makes it worth it to keep playing?

thats a really good question.

my first statement in mind is always (i asked myself the same) "because there is nothing better out there". this means: there is nothing that can replace it for me (not "better" in general), because i like a mmorpg in his primal sense: a game world with a lot of immersion, where you always have to do something (even grinds) and while doing that, meet other ppl, feel the world, identify myself with my character, explore, and be on a adventure, together with others. the same thing, 10-14 year old kids wanna feel when they play things. as stupid as that sounds, thats it.

so, all the years i looked around, to find something more challenging or hardcore'ish, but without loosing the feel of the world and the great raid feeling, that wow has. and i simply have not find an alternative. either games are havin a bad look and feel (mostly feel), or they have no community and no sense of gaming together, or they lack of quality. i dont know. i tested a lot so called mmorpgs (half of them are way more action adventures than mmorpgs), and nothing inspired me in the slightest. it just dont do click. no plan how to better explain.

so i have to stick with wow, even when the game much drived away from what it once was. i dont like a lot of the changes that influenced wow (and many other mmorpgs) and the classical mmorpg genre, to drive them more into a sandbox action rpg game or whatever you call it. ofc there also were changes i liked. i.e. class playstyle in vanilla was shit. in tbc-mop it was great, but since wod i dont like the direction that much. but back to topic: for me, at least wow has a better overall rest of its soul than all the rest out there. at least imo.

thats my best try to explain how i can play a game that long, that i no longer really like that much. so, my best quick answer would be: i dont like wow that much these days, but there isnt any better competitor.

no clue if that make sense for you?

[Socialhealer]

game isn't a grind, if you feel the need to do everything, that's your problem, too many WoD idiots thinking zero content is amazing they can login do fuck all log off, and go sweet i've done everything in wow because there's nothing to do, winning!

[Niwes]

A completely nonsensical statement - de facto.

Over the years, WoW has progressively become more and more diverse. Nobody with a sane mind could deny that Blizzard has done a whole lot to shake up the same old basic concepts that MMOs are built upon - and more so than any other MMO on the market. To say that WoW "became" a boring grindfest is an objectively wrong statement, because it's evidently way more diversified and multi-faceted in the ways how it organizes, presents and substantiates the MMO grinding gameplay it's still very much based on.

You could say that it IS a boring grindfest - compared to Mario Kart or whatever. But to sit there and bemoan how it supposedly "became" that way, is complete nonsense.

as i stated with 4 examples above (elite mobs, elite quests, careful pulling, threat, needed cc in dungeons, long time investment for 2-3h dungeons vs 15min quick aoe brainless grind, comitment to the game, etc) my oppinion is: its complete nonsense to act like wow was since release a brainless grindfest.

argent dawn was. farming cloth was. doing attunements or elite quests or questing/leveling in general, wasnt.

[FelPlague]

i voted yes, because it became one the day it came out so.
but thats the point of mmo's

[Niwes]

game isn't a grind, if you feel the need to do everything, that's your problem, too many WoD idiots thinking zero content is amazing they can login do fuck all log off, and go sweet i've done everything in wow because there's nothing to do, winning!

i do everything. and everything i do is a grind. thats the statment thats discussed here. so what the heck are you talking about?

[Flatspriest]

Has WoW become a horrible grind-fest? No. It was ALWAYS a horrible grind-fest and much worse during the early years than it is now.

[Niwes]

i voted yes, because it became one the day it came out so.
but thats the point of mmo's

why have so much ppl the mentality of "it was always that brainless grindy" here ? did you even play vanilla and/or at least TBC?

thats nonsense. never in wows history there was that much brainless aoe grind for everything you do. it became more and more worse since wotlk.

hell, today some mobs live 1 (ONE) fukin second!!! that was NEVER the case in no aspect of the game 4-6 years ago!

in wotlk dumgeons became grindy. in cata they turned back, ppl whined, grindy again. in vanilla leveling was hard. not only in time comitment but foremost in what you are doing. you have to pull carefully. you have to check if you are ready to kill a single elite mob without help. and, when you wasnt hunter or lock, you have to cc or run when something gone wrong. and much much more, thats the opposite of brainless aoe grinds.

(i dont wanna give too much vanilla examples here, bc i want not derail it into a classic vs retail thread).

[Socialhealer]

i do everything. and everything i do is a grind. thats the statment thats discussed here. so what the heck are you talking about?

what the fuck are you talking about lol, calling every type of content a grind, i can't even fathom the crap going on in your head, most of it has been around since TBC in 1 form or another, slightly chained now, like farming badges in TBC, dailies quests, world boss you'd be lucky to get it, all the dungeons/raids etc. but it wasn't a grind then and is now, or you're complaining the game has the same content for over a decade? well duh.

[Niwes]

Has WoW become a horrible grind-fest? No. It was ALWAYS a horrible grind-fest and much worse during the early years than it is now.

no. not. in. the. slightest.

- - - Updated - - -

I think you people need help. The problem is not the grind. The problem is not the game. The problem lies with the players.

If Blizzard remove the grind or put a cap. You people WILL STILL LOGIN to WoW and complain about nothing to do or something else.

maybe the ppl you call "you ppl". for me playing alts (on a very high level - nearly main level) was always great. i have no problem with "your char cant have something to do 24 hours a day". the opposite is true: in Legion i have played 300-400% less alts.

as always blizz knows nothing than extremes. they literally have 0 content in wod. ppl say "this sucks". ofc, in Legion you have to spam ppl with an endless grindfest. the color gray is something that seems not to exists in blizzards spectrum between white and black.

[hulkgor]

Content can't remain challenging for long. People get experienced on it, players get better gear. Etc.

So, i expect content to be challenging for a while, then it stops being challenging, and you get more content to get challenged by... and blizzard has been doing a massive job with that on Legion.

So yea, i don't understand your criticism.

[Niwes]

While that's true, "total hours played" is not a metric that leads to the development of quality content, in my opinion. When you use that as your starting goal, you tend to add systems that force people to do the same content over and over rather than simply create quality, engaging, and abundant actual content. Wrath and TBC objectively and measurably had twice or more of the actual content as subsequent xpacs and the systems team made concerted efforts to do away with something from the past they thought was not fun for the playerbase... grinds like needing to use 10 potions per fight and attunements.

Where there were systems that promoted logging in regularly, caps were in place to make tuning easier for the balance team and keep certain segments of the playerbase from consuming it all in one sitting. When your goal is "total hours played" however, those caps quickly disappear so you can promote that metric to your investors as "evidence" of "deep engagement".

The metric the Wrath team used was that 10 million plus people paid money out of their pocket every month to be a subscriber. That metric, in my opinion, is much more akin to a high quality and fun game.

yep. i agree.

[FelPlague]

why have so much ppl the mentality of "it was always that brainless grindy" here ? did you even play vanilla and/or at least TBC?

thats nonsense. never in wows history there was that much brainless aoe grind for everything you do. it became more and more worse since wotlk.

hell, today some mobs live 1 (ONE) fukin second!!! that was NEVER the case in no aspect of the game 4-6 years ago!

in wotlk dumgeons became grindy. in cata they turned back, ppl whined, grindy again. in vanilla leveling was hard. not only in time comitment but foremost in what you are doing. you have to pull carefully. you have to check if you are ready to kill a single elite mob without help. and, when you wasnt hunter or lock, you have to cc or run when something gone wrong. and much much more, thats the opposite of brainless aoe grinds.

(i dont wanna give too much vanilla examples here, bc i want not derail it into a classic vs retail thread).

yes. to get to 60 in vanilla wasent "difficult" it was a massive grind

also no, you were constantly grinding in vanilla
farming the furbolg in felwood for days to get exalted, farming satyr for felcloth for tons of recipes or for demon runes required for some classes in raid
farming things needed to buy/make your Food,potions,Elixers, and Scrolls.
Grinding till you bag is full of soul shards before raid.
and yes lots of mods died in 1 second in vanilla, your going "boo hoo a fully geared person could kill a mob out in the world" in vanilla could pop my talisman trinket, and sac my sucubus, and fire a shadow bolt 1 shotting some mobs if it crits...

you are screaming rose tinted goggles by using examples of things that happen now saying they never happened in vanilla, when they did, all, all the time.

btw time spent=/=hard, so yes vanilla wow took longer, but it wasent hard, it was annoying, it dident require more skill to level, you died alot, but not because of difficulty, because of bullshit, killing a mob, and something spawns on you, killing something and it resists 3 times in a row, then crits you

[Niwes]

Content can't remain challenging for long. People get experienced on it, players get better gear. Etc.

So, i expect content to be challenging for a while, then it stops being challenging, and you get more content to get challenged by... and blizzard has been doing a massive job with that on Legion.

So yea, i don't understand your criticism.

as i already said, that will ofc always be the case. learning and outgearing etc do the rest. but that does not mean that the comtent should be stupid easy brainless aoe grind from the first time you meet that content.

its a whole difference when things BECOME grindy and when things ARE grindy in the first place.

ps: do ppl even read threads these days or just put in some quick statement without being interested in the discussion ? bc ppl ask or say 5 times the same thing that a) others wrote exactly the same and b) aks OP that have already answered the same fukin thing twice or 3 times. my statement: read the fukin thread or just dont post.

nobody needs that shitty "jumpin in, pooping out my oppinion and leave" behaviour.

[Radaney]

why have so much ppl the mentality of "it was always that brainless grindy" here ? did you even play vanilla and/or at least TBC?

thats nonsense. never in wows history there was that much brainless aoe grind for everything you do. it became more and more worse since wotlk.

hell, today some mobs live 1 (ONE) fukin second!!! that was NEVER the case in no aspect of the game 4-6 years ago!

in wotlk dumgeons became grindy. in cata they turned back, ppl whined, grindy again. in vanilla leveling was hard. not only in time comitment but foremost in what you are doing. you have to pull carefully. you have to check if you are ready to kill a single elite mob without help. and, when you wasnt hunter or lock, you have to cc or run when something gone wrong. and much much more, thats the opposite of brainless aoe grinds.

(i dont wanna give too much vanilla examples here, bc i want not derail it into a classic vs retail thread).

So you never did Faction Reps at level 60, Brood of Nozdormu, Argent Dawn, Hydraxian, Zandalar, Shen'dralar, Timbermaw, Thorium Brotherhood, Kurenai, Sporeggar, Netherwing, Shattrath City Reps, both Cenarius reps? Basically all the fucking Vanilla reputations and most of the TBC rep grinds? That's cute. Reps were a joke in Wrath and above in comparison to these bad boys.

So you didn't do 40 man raiding? You never got your BiS items in MC, BWL, Onyxia, AQ40, Naxx because there were 39 other raiders wanting items as well. This idd made getting loot awesome though.

Levelling was difficult and grind in Vanilla.

Getting enough gold for your level 60 mounts, flying in TBC was a grind.

Getting gear was a grind in 5 mans because they took ages in Vanilla, you had ninja looters as well. Finding a group was pain in the dick and took up to multiple hours as well. Doing the dungeons took multiple hours, Return to Karazhan pales in comparison to the length of BRD, Scholomance, Stratholme, LBRS and UBRS. When someone left the group finding a replacement was a fucking nightmare because almost everyone wanted fresh starts and you had to walk back from say Drakkisath in UBRS to the damn meeting zone to summon someone who had to go back to Stormwind to spam general to find somebody.

PvP Reps were a massive grind.

High end PvP titles were a massive grind.

Literally everything in the damn game at max level was a grind in Vanilla. You did the same 5 dungeons, the same couple of BGs every time and the same 1 or 2 raid every week because guilds only progressed one 20 / 40 raid at a time and most of the time you got absolutely fuck all.

Players who play nowadays would have their brains explode at the sheer lack of variety of things to do.

The only thing keeping you sane during this massive grind was the people that you played with. But saying it wasn't a grind is factually incorrect.

[schwarzkopf]

yeah, we had a lot of threads lately about how much and how boring AP WQ/M+ grind is. But thats not the core i wanna discussing here.

You are incorrect, the grind has pretty much been eliminated from WoW - Legion has no grind at all required in any aspect of it.

Any perceived issues relate to your wish to over do things, which is fine if you enjoy it.

However if you over do things then whinge about it - that isn't the game's fault.