WoW became a horrible boring grindfest

[Polarthief]

Also, while wow is currently giving you most thing easily, it relies too much on AP, mythic + and daily farming at endgame. The issue isn't so much that the current game is a grind, but rather that the grind is pointless because it doesn't allow you to reach new content, while in the older design, grinding allowed you to access new places to go.

Almost all of my gear is from the M15 caches (at the end of the week), Nighthold, and Legendaries. None of that (besides NH, but that's a raid) really requires farming.

Artifact, sure, but you will do just fine with more skill over more AP. Like I said earlier, I've been parsing purples for months without a 54 weapon, or even a half-decent legendary for the longest time (took 5 legendaries to get a single one worth a damn).

[chronia]

why have so much ppl the mentality of "it was always that brainless grindy" here ? did you even play vanilla and/or at least TBC?

thats nonsense. never in wows history there was that much brainless aoe grind for everything you do. it became more and more worse since wotlk.

hell, today some mobs live 1 (ONE) fukin second!!! that was NEVER the case in no aspect of the game 4-6 years ago!

in wotlk dumgeons became grindy. in cata they turned back, ppl whined, grindy again. in vanilla leveling was hard. not only in time comitment but foremost in what you are doing. you have to pull carefully. you have to check if you are ready to kill a single elite mob without help. and, when you wasnt hunter or lock, you have to cc or run when something gone wrong. and much much more, thats the opposite of brainless aoe grinds.

(i dont wanna give too much vanilla examples here, bc i want not derail it into a classic vs retail thread).

Well yeah, AOE grinding wasn't that big in vanilla. But it doesnt have to be AOE to be grindy.

Vanilla:

Leveling, at some points you would always run out of quests that were worthwhile to do, meaning you had grind mobs to get to a point where you could get some new worthwhile quests again. Grinding owlbeasts and furbolgs being the most efficient way to level from 58-60 was also really not grindy at all and very good game design....

Crafting Professions: Were alot more grindy in vanilla. Getting some recipe's took ages grinding, then the mats for those recipe's took ages grinding. Remember crusader orb farming on scarlet mobs in EPL/WPL, or essences from certain elementals...

Gathering professions: Herbing was alot more grindy in vanilla, mostly due to the far lower density and respawn of nodes, same for Mining. Skinning was probably around the same i guess (never did skinning).

Reputation: Argent Dawn, Hydraxian Waterlords, Thorium Brotherhood, Timbermaw Hold, Cenarion Circle, Brood of Nozdormu, Zandalari just a few examples that show how grindy reputations were in Vanilla compared to Legion.

Getting a Epic mount: When grinding mobs for hours and hours on end for quite a few days in Tyrs Hand was one of the recommended ways to most efficiently get the money for a epic mount you know how grindy a game is....

Let alone the gear grind in Dungeons and raids where way less loot dropping than now, and way more ppl competed for that loot.

No Vanilla was absolute not a grind......

[Polarthief]

Well yeah, AOE grinding wasn't that big in vanilla. But it doesnt have to be AOE to be grindy.

Hell, AoE grinding makes the grinding take less time, resulting in less of a grind.

[Deleted]

Almost all of my gear is from the M15 caches (at the end of the week), Nighthold, and Legendaries. None of that (besides NH, but that's a raid) really requires farming.

Artifact, sure, but you will do just fine with more skill over more AP. Like I said earlier, I've been parsing purples for months without a 54 weapon, or even a half-decent legendary for the longest time (took 5 legendaries to get a single one worth a damn).

Good for you, but it still does rely too much on grind on non relevant content compared to other expansions. Most sane people don't play a video game to repeat irrelevant stuff without ends. As already said a grind is ok if it actually brings something and if there is an end to it and it allows you to move on to another part of the content.

Leveling, at some points you would always run out of quests that were worthwhile to do, meaning you had grind mobs to get to a point where you could get some new worthwhile quests again. Grinding owlbeasts and furbolgs being the most efficient way to level from 58-60 was also really not grindy at all and very good game design....

We're talking about mere hours of a finite grind here, it is very far from the endless AP grind of legion. Also, you were supposed to go run dungeons in these level ranges.

[Nalam the Venom]

Content in a game that people find fun, THE MAIN REASON PEOPLE PLAY FUCKING VIDEO GAMES, is "irrelevant"? Okay.

I'm not defending WoW, I'm just calling you out on your crap. How is something that someone else enjoys but you don't "irrelevant bullshit"?

Because that's just fluff put there to enjoy the people who refuse to do the real content. It's not supposed to be there. But it is there to please that part of the community, but in the end it is irrelevant Bullsheet. I'd say anything under Mythic raiding or M+ over 15 is irrelevant.

[Lilija]

We've been together thru so much that now we can grow old together. That's my relation to WoW.

[Tomana]

thats, as i mentioned, including examples, (nearly 5 times or so now...) just not true. in vanilla or TBC there were enough spots where, for sure, you couldnt run into like "yeah pull everything whats here and aoe grind em down". ofc it was grindy. grinds are a natural part of mmorpgs. but building a mmorpg solely on brainless grinding in 85-95% in every aspect of the game ? no. thats wether the definition of mmorpgs nor was that always the case in wow.

Look, you don't seem to understand this simple thing: just because you were forced to pull one mob at a time in vanilla (or not, my warlock and my hunter would disagree) does not make the grind more or less brainless. It is still a grind. The fact you have to pay attention a bit does not make it less brainless. Because pushing 2 buttons does not require brains by any stretch of imagination. For example, my hunter leveling in vanilla was basically send pet and autoshot (with some arcane shots from time to time). If that's not brainless, I don't know what is. Also, current world content may be "brainless" because you overgear it by a metric crapton of ilvls.

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sadly there is truth and logic in this.

Actually, it's quite the opposite. There are a lot of mentally challenged players who quit WoW and who seem to have nothing better to do than post on those forums about how vanilla was muuuuuuuuuuuuuuch bettah!!! It's a process called rationalization in psychology.

[Deleted]

Look, you don't seem to understand this simple thing: just because you were forced to pull one mob at a time in vanilla (or not, my warlock and my hunter would disagree) does not make the grind more or less brainless. It is still a grind. The fact you have to pay attention a bit does not make it less brainless. Because pushing 2 buttons does not require brains by any stretch of imagination. For example, my hunter leveling in vanilla was basically send pet and autoshot (with some arcane shots from time to time). If that's not brainless, I don't know what is. Also, current world content may be "brainless" because you overgear it by a metric crapton of ilvls.

What he was saying was basically that back in the day the fact you had to actually think when pulling actually brought depth to the gameplay and allowed you not to die out of boredom, and could even prove to be interesting (thus the reason why WoW brought so many players into the MMORPG genre, when the current games on the market actually drive most players away).

Also don't forget that vanilla was supposed to be a RPG, not an action game.

[rda]

Look, you don't seem to understand this simple thing: just because you were forced to pull one mob at a time in vanilla (or not, my warlock and my hunter would disagree) does not make the grind more or less brainless. It is still a grind. The fact you have to pay attention a bit does not make it less brainless.

Having to pay attention does make it less brainless. You try to optimize and go faster (ie, pull three mobs) or do what seems impossible, that engages your brain.

[Tomana]

Having to pay attention does make it less brainless. You try to optimize and go faster (ie, pull three mobs) or do what seems impossible, that engages your brain.

For the first dozen of levels, maybe. After that, it becomes so automated that it no longer matters. I've gained levels upon levels upon levels on grinding mobs in vanilla, because I was a noob huntard who didn't know better. Furbolgs in Felwood/Winterspring, pirates in Tanaris, belves in Azhara, Trolls in hinterlands, beasts in STV... the list goes on. It was completely brainless.

This being said, your vanilla experience may hugely vary depending on your spec, because Blizz was awssssum in balancing classes back then

[Niwes]

WQs: What's different about these over dailies? It's literally nothing new we haven't seen except now you get different rewards + Emissary caches and you don't have to pick up + turn in the quest. Way better over previous expansions' dailies.

World Bosses: Literally the same it's always been. Also no mounts = No need to farm them for the next 3+ years to come.

TW Dungeons: So don't do them? A Normal cache is pretty worthless nowadays.

Non-Mythic Dungeons: People still do these? Also nothing new we haven't seen before.

Quests: Like post L110 quests? How exactly is this a boring grind?

M+: If you spam them I'll give you this. You should try higher levels (15+) where you don't just spam AoEs.

LFR: Nothing new.

Professions: What?

Leveling: Nothing new.


I don't understand why things that haven't changed (LFR, Leveling, etc) are SUDDENLY boring, while all the new stuff (that isn't a grind) is also a grind. It sounds like WoW just isn't the game for you and I don't know what would make you happy.

PS: Minus the RNG [esp with WF/TF]/Legiondaries, Legion has easily been one of the best expansions offering players the most content possible and having a steady stream of content coming out:

August 30th: Legion Launched
September 20th: EN
October 25th: Last wing of EN LFR
November 8th: ToV (a week later for LFR)
January 10th: 7.1.5
January 17th: Nighthold
March 7th: Last wing of NH LFR

Now we have 7.2 on the horizon (expect a late April/early May release at best, June release at worst) and ToS right behind it with a ton of content and legendary fixing on the way. Like, I don't really know what you want from the game.

some points:

- i dont like "old" daily quests either, if you talk about last 2-3 xpacs. bc itwas the same stupid aoe grind. i dont say i dont like brainless aoe grind at all. regardless where you have to do it. but i say i dont like it to use that playstyle in nearly every aspect of the dailies/WQs, or in nearly every aspect of the game in general.

- a nhc NHC cache isnt something for a HC raider that he savely could waste, bc of horrible titanforged RNG systems.

- non-mythic dungeons: you say nobody do this. i agree. so why have them in the first place? even mythics (non m+) are a horrible stupid easy grindfest. same goes for m+ with a little bit of movement attention. all of em are just plain aoe grindfests.

- m+15. halls of valor. hard stuff. done 2 days ago. i am nothing special with my actual char (at the moment). i perform on 45-65% on warcraftlogs. did 15+ 2-3mins over time. 90% of that "hard stuff" dungeon was: aoe grind trash packs. and a little bit "dont stand in shit". affixes was: the healer dimishing return, the high dmg void zones after mob dies, and the more dmg more health affix. so, even your mentioned example, in one of the hardest m+ dungeons, was for over 90% of the run, a nearly brainless aoe grindfest.

[Tomana]

What he was saying was basically that back in the day the fact you had to actually think when pulling actually brought depth to the gameplay and allowed you not to die out of boredom, and could even prove to be interesting (thus the reason why WoW brought so many players into the MMORPG genre, when the current games on the market actually drive most players away).

Again, after a couple of false tries, you just do it automatically. It does not make your brain work (at least consciously). Now, if all mobs were bosses with abilities you have to avoid Wildstar-style, it may have been less brainless.

Also, thinking when pulling was also due to the fact that some classes didn't have ranged abilities. Paladins had to rely on a frickin' boomerang to pull.

[Niwes]

As a personal note: i slowly get the feeling here are A LOT ppl posting, starting this game (or other mmorpgs) in MoP or later. Since i get the feeling ppl have this "it was always like that" feeling and cant understand whats wrong (or better: whats wrong for ppl like me) with a brainless aoe grind in nearly every aspect of the game.

I want not say anything with that statement, its just something that seems repetitive happen in this thread. and it would explain some things for me and give me more insight why are ppl accept braindead aoe grinding as a standard.

[reliefsan]

grind for your life!!

[Tomana]

As a personal note: i slowly get the feeling here are A LOT ppl posting, starting this game (or other mmorpgs) in MoP or later. Since i get the feeling ppl have this "it was always like that" feeling and cant understand whats wrong (or better: whats wrong for ppl like me) with a brainless aoe grind in nearly every aspect of the game.

Playing since late vanilla here, so no

I want not say anything with that statement, its just something that seems repetitive happen in this thread. and it would explain some things for me and give me more insight why are ppl accept braindead aoe grinding as a standard.

Or - surprise - you look at vanilla with rose-tainted glasses because the game was fresh and new to you back then.

[Niwes]

and maybe i should clearly state it again:

i dont have a problem with grinds in general. they are totally the nature of mmorpg games. i have a problem with

- piss easy no challenge braindead aoe grinds.
- piss easy no challenge braindead aoe grinds, in nearly every aspect of the game.

maybe this discussion is a little bit derailed to "grind vs nogrind" (which was never the intension) and maybe i should have more pushed the opening post into the "wow became too easy" corner. i dont know.

but its NOT, that i have a problem with the grindy nature of mmorpgs in general.

[angrys13]

You have a funny way of the use of the word "became"

[Pickynerd]

What 6 months later, still running all this on a main? Yes, it would be boring.

Just like tBC.
Just like Wrath.
Just like Cata.
Just like MoP.
Just like WoD.

I don't think it is grindy enough because these threads keep popping up.

Over the years I've learned to slow way down, and enjoy the game with friends, not just chase the BiS sprinkles - Otherwise I'd hate the game by now and need a year plus break from it.

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and maybe i should clearly state it again:

i dont have a problem with grinds in general. they are totally the nature of mmorpg games. i have a problem with

- piss easy no challenge braindead aoe grinds.
- piss easy no challenge braindead aoe grinds, in nearly every aspect of the game.

maybe this discussion is a little bit derailed to "grind vs nogrind" (which was never the intension) and maybe i should have more pushed the opening post into the "wow became too easy" corner. i dont know.

but its NOT, that i have a problem with the grindy nature of mmorpgs in general.

The game has gotten harder overall, but its the same piss easy content we were doing since vanilla excluding that first time you stumbled upon a blood of hero's.

[Niwes]

Playing since late vanilla here, so no


Or - surprise - you look at vanilla with rose-tainted glasses because the game was fresh and new to you back then.

i understand were you comin from. and maybe i had interpreted it the same way, if i were you.

but i tried (maybe not hard enough) to not look like "in vanilla all was better" and i tried to not derail that thread into the 163536 vanilla vs retail thread.

instead i tried to show that there is no law that every aspect of the game must base on brainless aoe grinds. it can also base on non-brainless grinds, where you have to grind things, without do that like a braindead ape, by aoe rushing everything. and it can, ofc, also base on non grindy content.

i just say it must not always everything in the game, based on piss easy content, done through rushing via aoe grind. i NOT say: in vanilla that was not the case. NOR i say: in vanilla everything was better. in the end i wanna say nothing about vanilla. even, if vanilla had at least not be based everywhere on aoe grinds. but thats not what i wanna say. WHAT i wanna say is:

there is no law, that a mmorpg game only have to have grinds and nothing else. neither is there a law that says: every grind (and by their nature mmorogs have a lot of them, thats ok) have to be a brainless aoe grind.

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grinds

- could be fun (even the brainless aoe ones)
- can be challenging (but not have to everywhere)
- are a natural part of mmorogs

grinds

- have not to be everywhere and always brainless aoe grinds
- have not to be everywhere and always challenging
- dont need to be the base of every aspect of a mmorpg

maybe this thread is more about game play diversity than about grinding per se.

[potis]

and maybe i should clearly state it again:

i dont have a problem with grinds in general. they are totally the nature of mmorpg games. i have a problem with

- piss easy no challenge braindead aoe grinds.
- piss easy no challenge braindead aoe grinds, in nearly every aspect of the game.

maybe this discussion is a little bit derailed to "grind vs nogrind" (which was never the intension) and maybe i should have more pushed the opening post into the "wow became too easy" corner. i dont know.

but its NOT, that i have a problem with the grindy nature of mmorpgs in general.

It has to.

Its the generation of gamers that causes it.

They expect fast stuff, and rewards, aka cleave shit and give me loot.

Blizzard provided that but most rewards are useless, but since there is a chance to titanforge, it can be useful, so repetitive hopeful grind.