Turkish foreign minister campaigning in Western Europe

[Succath]

Well I'm not saying Turkey wasn't at fault but the Dutch aren't that innocent. We all know that "concerns about public safety" were just bullshit and an excuse to ban pro-Erdogan propaganda. Pulling bullshit excuses like that isn't that innocent... if Turkey really bought the excuse they wouldn't have made the threats (which they shouldn't have). I can only imagine both governments were playing their "macho" card for the upcoming elections/referendum. All in all I hope this doesn't develop into a serious issue.

You know nothing , stop assuming and taking that as a fact. the minister was very welcome to talk about his so called "referendum", just not on the terms of the Turkey ministers. if they then drop a bom under talks about what is possible by threatening and talking bs by calling dutch people facists and Nazi`s then dont complain when they say F** you and you are no longer welcome.

[Heltoray]

They were not trying to undermine your government. You are either using the wrong word, or highly paranoid.

Well, Erdogan is going full-out fascist right now wouldn't you agree?
Imprisoning opposition and journalists, objectively trying to overthrow democracy in every area. What angers me about this is that he is trying to use his allies (!) to distract his own people from what he is doing. He accepts ruining all relations to Europe just to give Turks the illusion that everyone else is just fascist scum trying to keep Turkey down.
I am living in a free country with a working democracy and I don't want this c.unt to spread his anti-democratic propaganda here. He is threatening and insulting everyone, do you think he expects Germany or the Netherlands to let his guys hold their propaganda speeches everywhere? No, he is just looking for new fuel to feed the fire. All about distraction and propaganda. Why do you think the free press in Turkey had to fall before this? The German term "Gleichschaltung" fits this whole situation so well.

Going a bit further, what a coincidence it was that there was such a half-assed "coup" at the start of all of this.

[Deleted]

I am not defending Turkish police, fuck them and I am not in defense mode. The only group who are in defense mode in this thread are Dutch and some Europeans, right from the start.

I am pretty sure a good portion of Europeans, at some point in time, criticized Turkish police and their methods. However, here people are telling me it's not so different than in Turkey, without commenting on the way things are handled, especially dog bite and stuff.

What you people need to realize is that you are not so different than people who you call "Erdoturks". Your (not specifically you, but most in this thread) brains function the same way; ignore problems of your own state, cry about others' mistakes/bad exercises.

This is easily observable in this thread, for those who are smart enough to observe.

Riot police were dealing with people rioting. You deal with them with shields, batons and dogs. It's standard riot police methods. If you don't wanna get in trouble you would've dispersed long ago and not tried to riot.

If you don't think it's different from Turkey then you are, no insult intended, ignorant.

Nobody is ignoring problems of their own countries but they're pointing out the frankly insulting and somewhat hillarious hypocricy of Erdogan and Turkey pointing fingers about freedom and fascism in his state where you're actively suppressed for having a different opinion or worse.

[JohnBrown1917]

Well I'm not saying Turkey wasn't at fault but the Dutch aren't that innocent. We all know that "concerns about public safety" were just bullshit and an excuse to ban pro-Erdogan propaganda. Pulling bullshit excuses like that isn't that innocent... if Turkey really bought the excuse they wouldn't have made the threats (which they shouldn't have). I can only imagine both governments were playing their "macho" card for the upcoming elections/referendum. All in all I hope this doesn't develop into a serious issue.

Its perfectly acceptable to want to a move speech to a different location. Nothing macho about this from our side. The government did not acteally stop anybody before they started threatening us.

[Kuntantee]

Not manifestation but misinformation.
Turkish media seem to show nothing except those couple of people who got into a fight with the police.
I watched it live on tv. People came to protest, they were friendly and at the end they went home.

You are saying they were friendly, many other Dutch here saying they were not. According to my own research, you are right, however. Regardless, I've seen several videos, one which was rather terrible. If some dipshit is being dipshit, do you let your dog bite em? I am almost confident that if these protests were a bit more widespread, I am sure could see more of the same examples.

[Leonora]

Kangodo>You're correct in one thing: It's different with Farage.
>It is actually worse, since Farage was meddling in Dutch politics.

Explain how? I thought Farage only lied to the British public. What did he do to us Dutchies?


>It's wrong to abuse the law for political gain. That's exactly what the VVD has done here.

The law is in the end what the public accepts as values and norms. The government (for this is a shared agreement among all political parties, including the VVD, just excluding DENK) did what 99% of our population wanted.

> Why? Because we allow them to do the same thing we do ourselves and let others do?
> There is no bowing involved whatsoever, only a bunch of retarded citizens believe this.

Feel free do think so. I think you belong to the 1% who has that opinion, though.

> And the only reason anyone is paying attention to that dumb idea is because we have an election on Wednesday.
> It's the VVD trying to take votes from the PVV by randomly acting like a bunch of fools towards some 'Islamic country'.
> If this happened during any other period it wouldn't even be in the news and they could have their speech.
> Let's face reality: Erdotroll trolled the shit out of us and we took the bait.

I think this is all done to give Turkish people a common 'enemy' (us) to ensure an overwhelming 'yes' to make Erdogan dictator, yes. Nevertheless, if our government had allowed this, the only Dutch party that would have profited would have been the PVV.
I was impressed with how prepared our Dutch government was to take this to the next level if the Turkish governement kept at it. That is a compliment to the government, thus including the VVD (Rutte) but also the PvdA (party of foreign minister Koenders). It just so happens that I wont vote on any of the parties I just named, but I can appreciate well executed policies.
Just like if the Turkish people indeed see this all as reason to vote for Erdogan, I think they deserve exactly the hardship it will cost them to again get rid of him when they find out dictatorships are not good.

[MCMLXXXII]

No, they didn't. Police came and handled it very calmly.
Your shitposting is just as bad and dangerous as the Turkish trolling.

Sure buddy tell that to the store-owners in the area whre the last AKP-meeting was held. Don't be an ostrich

[Kuntantee]

Nobody is ignoring problems of their own countries but they're pointing out the frankly insulting and somewhat hillarious hypocricy of Erdogan and Turkey pointing fingers about freedom and fascism in his state where you're actively suppressed for having a different opinion or worse.

I suggest you to reread the thread. According to mmo-c, Netherlands did not wrong in this matter, not one bit. In fact, most peopled cheered this whole situation out of fanaticism.

As for your second paragraph, I know Turkish police very well.

[Huntermyth]

for the sake of these kind of arguments, put that Kuntantee figure on your ignore list. you won't believe the results.

p.s : he is not a Kemalist, he is a lapdog of this current government.

[Deleted]

You are saying they were friendly, many other Dutch here saying they were not. According to my own research, you are right, however. Regardless, I've seen several videos, one which was rather terrible. If some dipshit is being dipshit, do you let your dog bite em? I am almost confident that if these protests were a bit more widespread, I am sure could see more of the same examples.

Most people were indeed friendly. But as I replied earlier, there are always a few who love to riot. They had many chances to walk away peacefully after being warned numerous times. The ones who got bitten have nothing else to blame but themselves.

[MCMLXXXII]

I suggest you to reread the thread. According to mmo-c, Netherlands did not wrong in this matter, not one bit. In fact, most peopled cheered this whole situation out of fanaticism.

As for your second paragraph, I know Turkish police very well.

We did nothing wrong. Calling us fascists while our dearly beloved Turkish-Dutch showing Grey Wolves-signs?

[Kuntantee]

Just my two cents. Erdogan is insane and a fascist at heart, but not really different than the other Turkish politicians. There is no "left" and and no "democrats" in Turkey. They are all nationalists, aka fascists.

Turkish left is one of the least nationalist lefts in the world.

[Kuntantee]

We did nothing wrong. Calling us fascists while our dearly beloved Turkish-Dutch showing Grey Wolves-signs?

Grey Wolf comes from Turkish mythology. While we all know and complain about the organization you mention, the symbol itself represents nationalism, not membership to the organization.

[Deleted]

Muslims and other immigrants are already feeling targeted in Europe with all the Islamophobia and neo-Nazism going around. The government should make minorities feel more at home and ensure their safety not make them feel more targeted.

It goes both ways.. I will be the first one to point out how utterly retarded some of the integration policies are, they should discontinue all of them and start over again. This time with something that would actually help them integrate into society.
But on the other side of the fence are also people that are living somewhere for over 10 years and they still are not able to utter even the most simple of phrases in their new countries language.

[Deleted]

All in all, it's quite sad it came to this. I hope people can keep their heads cool and I really hope this won't benefit the PVV.

[Fuiking]

Well I'm not saying Turkey wasn't at fault but the Dutch aren't that innocent. We all know that "concerns about public safety" were just bullshit and an excuse to ban pro-Erdogan propaganda. Pulling bullshit excuses like that isn't that innocent... if Turkey really bought the excuse they wouldn't have made the threats (which they shouldn't have). I can only imagine both governments were playing their "macho" card for the upcoming elections/referendum. All in all I hope this doesn't develop into a serious issue.

Actually as this event showed. they were right about changing the venue, and you trying to weasle your way out of it doesnt change that. Thereby calling ''allies'' nazis and fascists makes the Allies Ship sink faster then a brick.

- - - Updated - - -

Well in all fairness if you say is true then its entirely Turkey's fault here. I thought the whole talk was banned in the first place.

It is true, but it got blown out of proportions really fast.

[Leonora]

[QUOTE=Kangodo;44974600]He came here to campaign for our referendum from last year.
> That's a foreign politician actively meddling in our politics.

You mean, the referendum to Brexit? I think that is a very bad outcome for both UK and the Netherlands, but the only person who believes the BRexit is good is the PVV, the rest of us is more realistic about the effect of NL exiting the EU in the long run (hint: the Netherlands is built on trading). The BRexit, however, is not a hot button issue so Farage was not a problem.

> You should re-read Denk's statement on Twitter.

You mean that 'we dont dare taking a position' statement ?

> Good. Care to share your research and polling?
> The government is overreacting to win votes.
> Erdogan is overreacting to win support in Turkey.
> And the far right is overreacting and making it sound as if we're in a civil war with our citizens of Turkish descendant.

And I think our government did what they had to do. An opinion I seem to share with most Dutch posters on several forums. I bet your question will be answered soon by some official polling.

[Fuiking]

Leonora did they change there statement (DENK I mean)?

[DrMcNinja]

Why are they stabbing Spanish fruit?

[Fuiking]

Something about Prince of Orange thing