WoW became a horrible boring grindfest

[FireVoodoo]

Vanilla fun and longtime retail-hater here. I would love Blizz re-launch Vanilla, but…

BUT!

For the first time since BC I actually like the retail more, than hate it.

IMO the trick is to play one char and do not care about hitting 54 AP.

Just do not kill yourself with [absolutely optional] grind and alts.

Also I’m still amazed with zone design, leveling quests but most of all – with Sarumar.

Sarumar is STUNNING.

I still would love Blizz re-launch Vanilla, and I would surely play it, but for the first time ever I think I would also play retail at the same time.

Good job Blizzard. Bravo!

[metzger84]

uh huh
/9 characters

[Dire]

Welcome to mmo's, dork.

[Silver Forte]

WoW is an MMO.

[anaxie]

lol, these threads just remind me how terrible most of you are. gtfo if you don't like it

Fuckin lfr hero telling people they are terrible. Im sure bells and whistles fistract you easily for years

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Vanilla fun and longtime retail-hater here. I would love Blizz re-launch Vanilla, but…

BUT!

For the first time since BC I actually like the retail more, than hate it.

IMO the trick is to play one char and do not care about hitting 54 AP.

Just do not kill yourself with [absolutely optional] grind and alts.

Also I’m still amazed with zone design, leveling quests but most of all – with Sarumar.

Sarumar is STUNNING.

I still would love Blizz re-launch Vanilla, and I would surely play it, but for the first time ever I think I would also play retail at the same time.

Good job Blizzard. Bravo!

Lol post illistrates why system is harmful to the game. Bravo

[Steelangel]

Yes. Next expansion will be No content. Legion is already on wods subs lvl. Worst expansion

Every current expansion is the worst expansion ever.

Every past expansion was so much greater.

We have seen this pattern before.

It has never been true.

If you hate the game stop playing.

No one cares about your single data point QQ.

[Adolecent]

What do you think? Is this whole brainless grindfest really fun for you?

You forgot to add PvP, which became a mindless minigame for grinding (useless) honor. That makes your list complete.

[rybat117]

Is this somehow new information to you? WoW, as well as the entire genre of MMORPGs, has always been grindy. There was never a point when the game systems were not grindy.

[Redecle]

even when i not agree (to some parts i do), i have to say that its well written.

i disagree mostly to the last part. i much more would prefer the lowlevel challenge with my alts (what you say nobody wants) instead of walkin 2 months through braindead aoe grind shit, before i eventually could see some challenge on the horizon.

I can respect that. On the alt subject that's where our views differ, partly cause of my personal reasons. Now that you pointed out that not everyone wants the low level experience to be such, yeah i overlooked that, since that has been even discussed by devs. I've been very happy how the low level is on alts currently, cause my end game with them has always been to get them max level as fast as possible, without buying the boost still. For my own reason of course, i do a lot of rare drop farms and transmog collecting for the said rp gameplay, tasks that are just plain grinds, but grinds that i don't mind. I guess it's about the perspective of the rewards. Talking about gear earlier and it not to matter was true in the sense of stat sticks and what the item level or quality is, but i care awfully lot about the visuals. That's my reward. Same old raids over and over for 1% drops, not just mounts or mog but all stuff. Some are for the enjoyment of collecting everything. The more alts I have at my disposal the better and faster the collecting will be.

I started alts mainly in TBC and have gotten them up little by little until in MoP when the heirlooms got so insane that i just rushed everything to max pretty much the optimal route. But that's the thing, i had a goal to get those alts up, but in the process i also fell for the gameplay of so many other classes, that currently i could also count most of them even as my mains. On the max level i don't just play one class fulltime for all the glory. But i don't do everything with everyone either. Some are strictly max level pvp, some pve, some rp, some just rep grind, some for professions, so i get a little alternation already whilst doing different grinds in by playing different classes.

Right now that i'm basically done with the low level experience in the game, I wouldn't mind one bit for it to go through a revamp and the difficulty and pace bumped up, that might actually be fun to see how the community would react who haven't been thrilled about the low level experience. In case there's a new class starting from scratch i wouldn't see it as a problem to go through something more difficult. That's something where heirlooms could actually be something Blizzard should make more use out of. The character power levels should be the same, but the XP gained more making it an optional process to be faster. For the power leveling i described, personally the problem was clear, when i started doing the alts, i just couldn't stop. Once one was done, i just had to see what the next class had to offer.

Leading to an overload that i wanted to and had to get all these done, in MoP i played 2 entire content patches behind everyone else just for the sake that i could level up all those characters. Have to admit it wasn't the best solution i ever made regarding playing MoP content through, but after it was done it was done i don't have to worry about, well at the start of expansion to get all max level again. Legion specifically, since there's so many character specific things. Right now my biggest worry is with the larger grinds like prestiging, just for weapon skins. In itself it's doesn't feel like a grind since you're just pvping, but when you take the factor in that you're going to do that so long with many different characters since they are not account wide you realize it's a grind alright. It's just masked behind.
And i don't really even care about pvp that much, but i do want those skins. So in that regard there's a goal and a reward. But if you look at like the AP grind, i couldn't care less, well i got my full base traits, but the last gold traits, don't care about grinding that even on one character. It's just a power boost, it's s stat stick gear piece i don't care one bit.


For the professions and reps mentioned in another post. Rewards yes. Although for me that's the rep side, for professions i don't really look the rewards. There's a point that they don't necessarily have reward at the moment since gold is flooded everywhere, the items are mostly bought at the start of expac cause of said epics. Also the amount of reduction of consumables in the game, that was a major setback in the profession revamp in Legion. The current system is not bad, the armor sets are still there to be built for whatever reason, unlucky with drops, fresh max level gear, but the fact that enchant slots etc more longer period consumables and the short term like pots and food, was reduced in such a huge amount. Professions need this daily "activity" to survive. One epic sold here and there was never the means.
Professions as the name says should be a money making method more than anything else. It's still possible to do that, but less than before.
But i think that's unfixable at this point, plainly cause the age of the game and money in it even though there are gold sinks and partly what is created with the altmania. When a lot of people have a lot of alts and access to different professions they don't need to buy anything, cause they can make it themselves. So it's a question of would we have to take that away to fix another part.

[Hotsforyou]

Ya, they took the worst part of Diablo and crammed it down our throats in WoW. If i wanted to play Diablo then i would. Keep it out of my MMO.

[Dormie]

Fuckin lfr hero telling people they are terrible. Im sure bells and whistles fistract you easily for years

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Lol post illistrates why system is harmful to the game. Bravo

You're really bad at this.

[anaxie]

You're really bad at this.

Bad at what? I'm just pointing towards facts.

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Ah ok, you are against the "mindless" grinds without any kind of gameplay engagement like World Quests, Emissary Quests for Legendaries and AP farming.
So you want the game to be more engaging with possibly more difficulty.

I can see that, but here is the big question. What do you want to this game that is new and exciting?
No game developer in the world was able to achieve an answer with pure enlightment. I can tell you now for a fact in the entire world no game developers knows how to make an MMORPG different from what they are today.
Because no one was able to make a MMORPG without mindless grinds ever on planet earth

I'm still waiting for the mastermind developer to step in and revolutionize the MMO genre.

its simple. You bring the game back in line before all this RNG nonsense started to gain momentum with WoD till Now.

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How about trying the actual RPG part of the MMORPG?
Come up with a backstory or start a new character from scratch and make your story as you go, sure you'll level with the same old "grind" stuff like the last 12 times, but make your personal story matter more than what the quests say. And don't level a race you've already done. Don't use heirlooms and shit. Find people who are actually roleplaying and level with them, fill the world with your own world. If you exclude the end game and quests, WoW is a gigantic fucking sandbox to do a lot of things.

For the mythic+ as i understand they are not capped at level 15, the actual physical rewards maybe, but what i've read someone just cleared the world first +25 recently.
It's not something everybody is doing.. Sure you are not going to get loot, but isn't the challenge itself the reward? I'm pretty sure, unless you're in full mythic raid gear, you're not just going to aoe down a 25+ anything, or maybe maw.

And raiding.. LFR.. normal, why are entry level shit in the list if you want challenge. Mythic Nighthold in fresh 830 there's a challenge. There are guilds out there who do raiding similar to the iron man challenge, or other leveling challenges. Sure it's not how Blizzard intented things, but hey these are challenges by the community who sees the game too easy, you can play hard mode if you want. But you have to be willing to except that at that level loot will not be your reward, but the way to play.

Personally loot has always been an obscure reward in an rpg. Specially in WoW where your character's power is based almost solely on loot. Sure levels grant your baseline. Granted that aspect is currently troublesome to be anything else, since we are all the champions of everything, there's almost no point to have a backstory, unless you're actually choosing to have it your way. My advice is, don't care about the loot, well gear at all. The less you care the more you'll enjoy.

And then there's rated pvp, there's no cap in it unless you're multiseason gladiator, but it requires a team to do it with.

The other stuff is the same as it has always been in this game, on the ground level at least.
Surely the difficulty might be a bit different than say vanilla, but it's still a grind.
I don't see how a vanilla rare elite is anymore special than currently rare elites/world bosses. With the exception that you needed a group to kill one, but still once it's done the second kill is already a grind regardless of being vanilla or legion. Only real difference was whether you spend an hour in trade searching for a party to kill it the first time or 4 seconds in group finder. So the actually difficulty on the non grind first kill is about 59 minutes and 56 seconds.. Which is well time, time to spend doing something else. Go do the dishes if you can spare 59 minutes, or better come do mine, cause i don't have time to do them.
Leveling for example. Sure it took you half the century and thousands of deaths to do in vanilla, but there was no quest structure to the point where you had to go grind pure mobs for levels cause there was nothing else to do. The ultimate level of grind. Quest contents are still similar stuff, kill, collect etc, except there are now even more variations than the base 3 that vanilla had. WQs are dailies, just better cause they a at least a bit more dynamic. But as grindy as ever.

Professions and reps are nothing but grind and have always been. In every single game.
That's the most universal truth there is regarding anything.
I haven't seen a single game where professions or reps are not a grind.

And who is even doing normal/hc 5mans if you are not below 825? Even then it takes an alt like a day or max 2 to get to minimum of 830 for free and do anything else beside normal/hc. Understandably that's part of the problem that there's no difficulty there. But on the other hand, if you're got 12 characters you really really really don't want there to be any difficulty to grind yourself to do NH atm. At this point if you're fresh 110, who the ef wants to spend time doing normal 5mans with any sort of difficulty? But if you want the difficulty, there's a solution with double difficulty. don't accept carries, go to mythic as fresh 780 or whatever. One, your first difficulty will be finding a group that's not a carry and after that you're going to cc every single mob including the bosses inside the instance to not die.

Maybe try alts.. Works for me, i got all 12 classes and i don't have a single extra hour in my day do to anything else. And i can barely do the daily WQs on 2 of the characters or leveling needed on the ones still requiring it. Don't feel bored of Legion, cause there's no time to be bored, there's way too much shit and not enough time in a day to do it all, or to get to the point that i can start doing repetitive tasks.

Why does TF need to exist when they could keep the Ilvl gains going above 15+ mythic? That way skill would = better gear rather than doing 10 dicerolls and needing to have a favorable outcome.

Ya play WoW all day 24/7 maybe people want to have their character raid ready without the busywork so they can play other games and not dedicate their life and leisure time to WoW.

[3DTyrant]

Let me get this right. You think WoW has only just become a grindfest? Not back in Vanilla, or TBC, or WotLK, not Cata, not MoP, not WoD? Only just with Legion has it become a grindfest of a game? Riiight, okay then. It has been a very grindy game since way back in Vanilla.

[Marxman]

It's aimed at a very small niche audience that enjoy D3 type gameplay and RNG gearing too.

I enjoy D3 style gameplay and I absolutely detest most of Legion's systems, particularly with regards to loot.

D3 RNG works because you can grind that slot machine all you want. Legion RNG doesn't because of lockouts + group content.

[anaxie]

Let me get this right. You think WoW has only just become a grindfest? Not back in Vanilla, or TBC, or WotLK, not Cata, not MoP, not WoD? Only just with Legion has it become a grindfest of a game? Riiight, okay then. It has been a very grindy game since way back in Vanilla.

What was a grindfest in TBC / Vanilla / Cata/ MoP?

Oh right nothing.

Is Revered rep through quests and a small handful of normals "Grindy"?

Is the ONE Hodir rep grindy for Wotlk?

What about Cata?

MoPs one month of dallies to max to exalted only.

how does any of this compare to Infitnite endless ap grind and TF casino wheel of dissappointment.

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If the poll is indicative of anything it's that if we continue this slope and 55% of the playerbase burns out the game will be at a whopping 2 million players.

No conincidence it was 14 million before the catastrophic RNG systems started to take swing in WoD that are going full Diablo speed now.

[Jastall]

No.

RNG has never been that bad in WoW as it is now.

2 items for a 40 raid per boss says hi. Endless leveling before Blizz made it easier does too. Also getting Shaman gear as Alliance was so cool and stuff.

The Legendary RNG is over the top, yeah, but let's not act as if this game hasn't been grindy since its inception. The one exception was WoD, which got slammed for having no content. Whereas Legion is set to have more actual PvE content (raids, dungeons, scenarios) than any xpack since MoP at least, and possibly only second to Wrath.

Grinds come with MMO. There's absolutely no freaking way for any dev team to produce content as fast as players consume it. So grinds are there to keep people subbed, like it or not.

[leviathonlx]

What was a grindfest in TBC / Vanilla / Cata/ MoP?

Oh right nothing.

Is Revered rep through quests and a small handful of normals "Grindy"?

Is the ONE Hodir rep grindy for Wotlk?

What about Cata?

MoPs one month of dallies to max to exalted only.

how does any of this compare to Infitnite endless ap grind and TF casino wheel of dissappointment.

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If the poll is indicative of anything it's that if we continue this slope and 55% of the playerbase burns out the game will be at a whopping 2 million players.

No conincidence it was 14 million before the catastrophic RNG systems started to take swing in WoD that are going full Diablo speed now.

Yep half of 500 vocal people, who may or may not be playing the game anyway, are totally indicators that the games going to be down to 2 million players if 55% of the polled people say they don't like something.

[anaxie]

2 items for a 40 raid per boss says hi. Endless leveling before Blizz made it easier does too. Also getting Shaman gear as Alliance was so cool and stuff.

The Legendary RNG is over the top, yeah, but let's not act as if this game hasn't been grindy since its inception. The one exception was WoD, which got slammed for having no content. Whereas Legion is set to have more actual PvE content (raids, dungeons, scenarios) than any xpack since MoP at least, and possibly only second to Wrath.

Grinds come with MMO. There's absolutely no freaking way for any dev team to produce content as fast as players consume it. So grinds are there to keep people subbed, like it or not.

The got rid of the Vanilla issues you speak of in 2007 the game flourished into the late 2011 and now we have Glaring issues coming up in 2017?

Vanilla and Legion RNG issues are not even connected.

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Yep half of 500 vocal people, who may or may not be playing the game anyway, are totally indicators that the games going to be down to 2 million players if 55% of the polled people say they don't like something.

Pretty much is. Considering more players will play WoW and quit rather than stay because Legion lacks any staying power with it's casino based systems that will turn off the majority.

Anyone trying WoW will be people that have already played and when they see the mess they leave.

It's going to get smaller and smaller as WoW loses it's soul on what made it great in the first place.

Game isnt an MMORPG as much as it is an ARPG loot Grindfest now.

[Teri]

Game isnt an MMORPG as much as it is an ARPG loot Grindfest now.

Agree with this until they drasticly improve the low-pop server problem, cross-realm content isn't mmo-like at all.

[Queen of Hamsters]

If you want a game that you can pick up and put down and then pick up again without ever falling behind, an MMORPG is not the right game for you.

The only things I dislike about this expansion, I don't consider a grind. I'd much prefer a grind with a surefire reward at the end over RNG slapped on top of RNG. Am I bored though? Of course not. I wouldn't play if I was bored.

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Agree with this until they drasticly improve the low-pop server problem, cross-realm content isn't mmo-like at all.

So MMORPG now means "isolated server"...? Because in the true meaning of the word, cross-realm content doesn't intrude on what the name of the genre promises...