1. #1
    Legendary! MonsieuRoberts's Avatar
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    LF opinion on PC upgrades for Andromeda @ $400 USD budget

    Hey guys!

    I have a friend who is deciding between going console for newer releases or upgrading his PC and continuing from there. He's leaning console-side because he doesn't think he can afford the required upgrades at a $400 USD budget, but I think he can upgrade his aging parts to be able to play much more than just Andromeda at Low for around that price.

    His specs are:

    • i5 3470 w/ Hyper 212 EVO
    • 8GB DDR3
    • Biostar TZ77A (I don't know WHY he has this board with a locked i5 but hey, it's what he has)
    • R7 370 4GB
    • Corsair 750M
    • Also has a HDD & SSD, and an ATX case.


    This is as low as I would personally go for upgrades if I were in his shoes and wanted to play Andromeda and other new games for the next few years without HAVING to set everything to low @ 1080p:

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: Intel Core i5-7500 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($199.89 @ B&H)
    Motherboard: MSI B250 PC MATE ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($89.99 @ B&H)
    Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($58.99 @ Newegg)
    Video Card: Sapphire Radeon RX 480 4GB NITRO D5 OC Video Card ($177.99 @ Newegg)
    Total: $526.86
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-03-12 20:34 EDT-0400

    Here's Andromeda's requirements:

    Mass Effect: Andromeda Minimum System Requirements For 1280x720

    CPU: Intel Core i5-3570 or AMD FX 6350
    GPU: GeForce GTX 660
    RAM: 8GB
    OS: Windows 7, Windows 8.1 or Windows 10 (64-bit versions)
    HDD: 55GB free space
    DirectX: Version 11

    Mass Effect: Andromeda Recommended System Requirements For 1920x1080

    CPU: Intel Core i7-4790 or AMD FX 8350
    GPU: GeForce GTX 1060 3GB, or GeForce GTX 970
    RAM: 16GB
    OS: Windows 7, Windows 8.1 or Windows 10 (64-bit versions)
    HDD: 55GB free space
    DirectX: Version 11
    He won't be playing on Ultra but he's happy with that. He also plays quite a bit of Overwatch and he hasn't complained about performance there, I think he plays on low for the great FPS. Thank God it's not demanding. Obviously my list has gone beyond his $400 budget, but I don't see a way for him to spend any less without then having to spend way more in a couple years. With my parts list he'd have an upgrade path for his RAM, for his CPU, and even the potential of Crossfire. He could slowly add to his rig and coast along for a long time at medium in brand new titles. If you think you can make it happen for $400, please let me know what parts should be swapped. Maybe his CPU is fine and it's the video card that needs to go?

    I'd really appreciate any recommendations!
    Last edited by MonsieuRoberts; 2017-03-13 at 12:35 AM.
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  2. #2
    Scarab Lord Triggered Fridgekin's Avatar
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    Doesn't really leave much wiggle room but it's there if he really needs to bring that price down.

    An H110M, i5-6500 and RX 470 would save him ~$50 from the build you've listed but you'll be at the mercy of the H110M limitations when it comes to adding components such as another graphics card or extra RAM. For folks like me who prefer one strong card, the single PCIE lane is fine. You could go down to a 1050 Ti for an extra ~$30 off but Im at a loss as to where that stacks up in the hierarchy of performance.

    Another option which could save him ~$30 would be to keep the i5-7500 and RX 480 but to swap out the B250 with an H110M since they're compatible with Kaby Lake. This route will require more work though since he would need access to a Skylake processor in order to update the BIOS and would come with the above mentioned limitations.

    If he really needs to squeeze blood from a stone to hug that $400 budget then you might want to look in to the second hand market.
    Last edited by Triggered Fridgekin; 2017-03-12 at 06:26 PM.
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  3. #3
    Legendary! MonsieuRoberts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triggered Fridgekin View Post
    Doesn't really leave much wiggle room but it's there if he really needs to bring that price down.

    An H110M, i5-6500 and RX 470 would save him ~$50 from the build you've listed but you'll be at the mercy of the H110M limitations when it comes to adding components such as another graphics card or extra RAM. For folks like me who prefer one strong card, the single PCIE lane is fine. You could go down to a 1050 Ti for an extra ~$30 off but Im at a loss as to where that stacks up in the hierarchy of performance.

    Another option which could save him ~$30 would be to keep the i5-7500 and RX 480 but to swap out the B250 with an H110M since they're compatible with Kaby Lake. This route will require more work though since he would need access to a Skylake processor in order to update the BIOS and would come with the above mentioned limitations.

    If he really needs to squeeze blood from a stone to hug that $400 budget then you might want to look in to the second hand market.
    Thanks Beavis, great recommendations. Finding a Skylake chip to update the BIOS on a 100-series MoBo won't be an option, but I see how that could work. Used market would definitely be a good call at the moment I think. I wonder if simply sticking a 970 in there from a dirty deal would be good enough? I really worry about his CPU being literally minimum requirements.

    I hadn't considered the 1050 Ti, that thing is actually pretty great! I wonder how it would perform paired with a 7500 though. Obviously most benchmarks just show i7s.

    Edit: Found a benchmark using a dual core!



    - - - Updated - - -

    It seems to me like a 470 would be a good consideration to cut a few bucks, but my thoughts are that he'd have to add a hundred bucks to his budget if he were to buy all brand new parts. I'm not really willing to encourage him to buy a dual core CPU.
    Last edited by MonsieuRoberts; 2017-03-12 at 07:14 PM.
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  4. #4
    Scarab Lord Triggered Fridgekin's Avatar
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    I am always deeply suspicious of box specs because 99% of the time they're never clear about what settings they're pushing in order to meet those minimum and recommended specs. An example of this is Battlefield 1 which has a 6600k as the minimum Intel processor but you can find loads of videos from folks playing the game without issue on i3s and Pentiums. Recommended can be even more silly at times unless we're talking about dumpster fire ports which are resource hogs and run like garbage.

    So, if you really want to lop off a chunk of that budget because he simply cannot afford to push much more than $400 and wants new hardware, the G4560 really isn't a bad option since the Kaby Lake Pentiums also support Hyperthreading and have decent clock speeds. It's fine in most cases to justify their recommendation in the budget scene and it's not like he'll get buyers remorse if he wants to upgrade it at a later date since they're so damn cheap.

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: Intel Pentium G4560 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor ($59.99 @ SuperBiiz)
    Motherboard: MSI Z270-A PRO ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($114.89 @ OutletPC)
    Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($59.99 @ Newegg)
    Video Card: Sapphire Radeon RX 480 4GB NITRO D5 OC Video Card ($177.99 @ Newegg)
    Total: $412.86
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-03-12 17:01 EDT-0400

    This option wouldn't compromise on your graphics card while opening the door to a much more robust upgrade path by way of the motherboard. Should he ever build up his budget again in the future, it'll not only give him the option for a better processor but one which can overclock while being very close to his current budget.

    All that being said, it's hard to tell if Andromeda is going to be a dumpster fire port, has inflated box specs, or will be one of the first (the first?) game which strictly requires an i5 minimum so I'd suggest to hold off on this option for as long as he can until there's a definitive answer (I'm willing to bet on inflated specs). I think Andromeda will have a head start so if he's patient then maybe he can wait until then to see just how reflective the box specs are to the actual performance especially when it comes to dual core processors.
    Last edited by Triggered Fridgekin; 2017-03-12 at 09:35 PM. Reason: he, you, Is
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  5. #5
    --snip--

    Ignore my original post, Fridgekin posted a good build.

    Didn't notice that i3 has Hyperthread now.
    Last edited by Jtbrig7390; 2017-03-12 at 09:17 PM.
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  6. #6
    Scarab Lord Triggered Fridgekin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    --snip--

    Ignore my original post, Fridgekin posted a good build.

    Didn't notice that i3 has Hyperthread now.
    Intel has essentially devoured themselves in the budget end of the spectrum by introducing hyperthreading to their cheap-as-dirt Kaby Lake Pentium series while releasing an overpriced K-series i3 with everything in between being irrelevant.

    It's kind of weird. They just need to merge the Pentium with the i3 and release a $70 dual-core hyperthreading K-series catch-all processor, call it a day and let AMD figure out how to compete with it.
    Last edited by Triggered Fridgekin; 2017-03-12 at 09:51 PM.
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  7. #7
    Deleted
    Just upgrade the GPU, its likely the CPU will be fine, and its something you can always pick up later, also we are in a point where Ryzen competition will likely cause the CPUs to drop price more.

    Your mate will see a very good upgrade by just switching out he GPU right now.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Triggered Fridgekin View Post
    Intel has essentially devoured themselves in the budget end of the spectrum by introducing hyperthreading to their cheap-as-dirt Kaby Lake Pentium series while releasing an overpriced K-series i3 with everything in between being irrelevant.

    It's kind of weird. They just need to merge the Pentium with the i3 and release a $70 dual-core hyperthreading K-series catch-all processor, call it a day and let AMD figure out how to compete with it.
    Ya its odd as fuck IMO.

    I kinda want to make a budget build with that Intel Pentium G4560 and see how hard I can push it.
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  9. #9
    Scarab Lord Triggered Fridgekin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorianrage View Post
    Just upgrade the GPU, its likely the CPU will be fine, and its something you can always pick up later, also we are in a point where Ryzen competition will likely cause the CPUs to drop price more.

    Your mate will see a very good upgrade by just switching out he GPU right now.
    This is another option but the 3470 is gradually showing its age when compared to the current line up which he could be open to at some point in the future with further room to overclock with the build I suggested. Speaking for myself, I would rather build a solid foundation with warranties which can accommodate more up-to-date niceties down the road rather than drop a 60" 4KHD TV in to a barn (a nice barn though). He could use the rest of his budget for a used 2500k but that would depend on whether or not he likes warranties and, in spite of being a legendary processor, the 2500k is starting to finally show its age as well. To add to this, the Z77 will only go as high as Ivy Bridge i5/i7 (I think?) so you're bound to a limited market of used parts that's slowly drying up and to a point where degradation from past overclocking can potentially be an issue due to their age.

    Bear in mind, a counter-point to this can be that since he's playing 1080p and likely on a 60hz monitor that the above information is irrelevant since he'll probably use an FPS limiter or vsync for titles which go over 60fps to avoid tearing. A counter counter point is it'll give more potential wiggle room to hug 60fps in more demanding titles which fall under 60fps in the case of the 3470.

    This is why I love the PC. So many choices. It's also why it makes me want to pull out my hair as well...
    Last edited by Triggered Fridgekin; 2017-03-12 at 11:01 PM.
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  10. #10
    Deleted
    I personally think that VGA will handle with 1080p on min
    So before your friend try to drop 400US he first have to see the game itself and maybe later can get more better rig

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Evildeffy's Avatar
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    Actually just so you're all aware, and this I'd actually trust right now.

    nVidia has benchmarked Mass Effect: Andromeda @ 1080p on High settings with a stock 6700K, GTX 1060 6GB, 16GB of DDR4 3000MHz RAM.
    The average outcome was 59 FPS with that.

    Considering it's the Frostbite engine that they're using which tends to thread well and should be nicely optimized for current gen cards I would honestly wait a little.
    Either that or build a new potent rig as your CPU may not be your bottleneck but your GPU certainly will be.

    Best thing is to see what the pre-release Origin subscribers crank out from the 16th, preferably some reviewers whom will test the game with cards/systems.
    Base your build upon that after as it may be a disgustingly beefy game, more-so than people imagine.

    With some luck you could deal with a GTX 1070 and a RAM upgrade to 16GB and be done with it.
    That should be able to be fit within a 400 USD budget.

  12. #12
    Scarab Lord Triggered Fridgekin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evildeffy View Post
    Actually just so you're all aware, and this I'd actually trust right now.

    nVidia has benchmarked Mass Effect: Andromeda @ 1080p on High settings with a stock 6700K, GTX 1060 6GB, 16GB of DDR4 3000MHz RAM.
    The average outcome was 59 FPS with that.

    Considering it's the Frostbite engine that they're using which tends to thread well and should be nicely optimized for current gen cards I would honestly wait a little.
    Either that or build a new potent rig as your CPU may not be your bottleneck but your GPU certainly will be.
    I honestly did not know it's built on Frostbite but that is somewhat of a relief since it's very generous when it comes to performance and visual scaling with a fair bit of graphic options to tinker with.

    A little tidbit has emerged on performance though from a producer:

    “It’s really hard to benchmark individual machines. We’re just saying that that’s the bare minimum that it’ll run at. It’ll probably run at higher than that for most of the game, it’s just really hard to be specific about it. We just want to do the minimum and we want to do the recommended. The recommended, at least on my machine at home, I have a 1060, I run at higher than 30 [fps] for the majority of the game. But it’s hard to actually to say, ‘This is the specs, and this is exactly what you’ll run at.'”
    Source

    So, take from that what you will I suppose.
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  13. #13
    Legendary! MonsieuRoberts's Avatar
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    Thanks so much for the replies guys. I'd love to be able to tell him just to grab a 480/970 and be done with it if his CPU will be cooperative. I'll send the message that we should wait and see how the game performs first before we think that the 3570 is "obsolete" for 1080p.
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  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Evildeffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triggered Fridgekin View Post
    I honestly did not know it's built on Frostbite but that is somewhat of a relief since it's very generous when it comes to performance and visual scaling with a fair bit of graphic options to tinker with.

    A little tidbit has emerged on performance though from a producer:

    Source

    So, take from that what you will I suppose.
    Yeah he takes that for the recommended spec of 30FPS of it's original system requirements.
    nVidia however did a separate test and came up with 59 average FPS at previously mentioned specs and settings.

    So I'd still suggest waiting till what the judgement is from the 16th of March 10 hour test drive for pre-order and Origin Access candidates.
    Because let's be honest here... 1060 6GB @ 60FPS with those specs is heavy, depending upon optimization of course.

    But if it's a combo to be able to pull out those settings then he's going to need a bigger gun to not run @ crap settings than JUST a graphics card.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MonsieuRoberts View Post
    Thanks so much for the replies guys. I'd love to be able to tell him just to grab a 480/970 and be done with it if his CPU will be cooperative. I'll send the message that we should wait and see how the game performs first before we think that the 3570 is "obsolete" for 1080p.
    I think that's a better idea indeed...

    As I stated there WILL be a 10 hour game time for those who have pre-ordered it and those who have Origin Access, hopefully we'll get some more info from known reviewers about how that will run and whether it'll be fine with an Ivy Bridge i5 as long as a GPU is parked in or not.

  15. #15
    Thought I would give my experience with performance for reference.

    I have a 3570k (4.2g overclock) and a 970ti, and I was getting mid 40's to low 50 fps on mostly high with a few ultra settings @1080p. But someone in the mass effect thread also running a 3570k and a 970 was having major performance issues. So I feel like it could be hit or miss. But I was happy with the fps, as I really didn't want to upgrade parts for this

    Granted this was playing through the story trial, so I have no idea how it will handle things beyond that point.

    Also fps playing in multiplayer was great.
    Last edited by Lagmonster; 2017-03-16 at 04:59 PM.

  16. #16
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    I'd say it almost might be worth swapping the 3470 for a 3570K. I'm seeing them at virtually the same price on ebay. For almost no cost you could upgrade that CPU and overclock it and get a significant (relatively speaking) boost for low cost.

    After that I'd grab a 1060 or even 1070 maybe.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Triggered Fridgekin View Post
    This is another option but the 3470 is gradually showing its age
    The 3470 has a max turbo of 3.4 Ghz (4c), whereas the 7600K has a max turbo of 4.2 Ghz, which is a 23% difference in clock speed. The difference in performance ~15% in the video you linked is mostly accounted for by the increased clockspeed of the 7600K. So why recommend a G4560 with a maximum clock speed of 3.5 Ghz (no turbo)? Paying $180 to lose two cores for 100 Mhz and 2 HT cores is not worth it.

    Instead, enable Multi-Core enhancement on the Z77 motherboard (Ivy Bridged locked processors can be multiplier overclocked to +4, or 3.8 Ghz), and upgrade the graphics card to something nice like the 1060 or the 1070.

  18. #18
    Legendary! MonsieuRoberts's Avatar
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    After seeing firsthand performance and checking tons of benchmarks, especially this Hardware Unboxed one, he's gonna go with a 480 in a few weeks and a new CPU afterward if he feels he needs it.



    At max settings (that's higher than the Ultra preset) and render scale set to 1:1, this game is no slouch at 1080p! My 1080 usage is usually hovering between the high 70s and high 80s, hopping into the 90s now and then, just like Witcher. Temps max out at the mid 60s. CPU usage sits between 40 and 60, peaking around the 70s. Similar temps for CPU, my H60's gotta go man. Sometimes both get pegged at 100% usage during loading screens, but with vsync on that doesn't happen anymore. No 5000 FPS loading screens for me, boohoo.

    In the Tempest, I've seen my CPU pegged at 100% usage and the GPU around 20%, then a camera angle changes and the usage trades places between CPU and GPU, like the CPU just tossed the load to my 1080 and it had to reach out and catch it. Very strange, never ever seen that happen before in any game.

    The performance and utilization have been great for me, and I can even have a chrome tab or two open on the side and sit at a rock solid 60, but for me there seems to be a lot of micro-stuttering, or maybe bad frame pacing, which I learned a tiny bit about from Digital Foundry. Half the time the game doesn't look like it's running at 60FPS, but I know it is. It's just jittery, like the frames are hanging around for too long, and then you turn a corner and you're fine.

    The sooner we get some patches the better.
    Last edited by MonsieuRoberts; 2017-03-22 at 09:16 AM.
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