Poll: Your oppinion: Became WoW a boring grindfest in most aspects ?

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  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    I have yet to see a single "worst casual" decked out in better gear than Mythic raiders.
    Haha same.

    That argument is hilarious. Do people really think "worst casual" is running around with 925 gear from World Quests and LFR? It cracks me up! World quest TF can't even go that high :P

    "Hey I quit cause some terribad casual got 870 TF shoulders last thursday"

    No really, I am not even joking. Some people actually quit because of this.

  2. #342
    Deleted
    I probably would've stopped playing a while ago but things like titanforging, legendaries, AP farming, hidden skins and even professions (random recipe drops, etc.) keep me from quitting. So much RNG makes this game feel very grindy but still it's well hidden. They keep everything interesting away from us and neither skill nor effort rewards you. You have to do the same things over and over again and from time to time they'll give you some candy and it's just barely enough to make you play more. Blizz are geniuses, perfectly manipulating us.

    You do a boring WQ just because it's necessary so you can finally click on a chest for the chance of getting your legy.
    Its like: Finishing your work so you can finally gamble on a slot machine. And you repeat it every day hoping you'll get your reward tomorrow.
    I would've stopped doing WQs, low M+ dungeons and raid farm runs because they are boring as hell but I still do them because there's a chance to get a legendary, a titanforged item. Legion is addicting us to gambling.

    Mythic raids and very high m+ dungeons are somewhat different because you actually need some skill and accomplishing something very challenging feels rewarding itself but doing boring content for a tiny chance of worthy loot is just following a carrot on a stick.
    Last edited by mmoc0d00d0d43b; 2017-03-13 at 02:21 AM.

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    1) My alt which I used to buy a gold-boost for the Garrosh Hellscream mount (for a chance at the Tusks of Mannoroth as well), got the kill 5 days after your main. The properly hardcore teams had been selling boosts by then for months... If you didn't know, they don't start selling boosts until they can faceroll despite carrying 2 or so players that are dead weight.

    2) My VERY casual self got the Deathwing HC kill before you did, you don't have anything from WoD nor Legion so...

    3) You're not even 110... Why not link us a 110 character which you're currently playing on that showcases just how much you've "had to grind" this expansion, seeing as how you've been pretending to speak from experience...?
    I don't think you're really that casual if you're killing DW before Feb'12 that's around world 250th which was pretty solid back then.
    Was surprised to see had better dates than myself while i'm not a hardcore raider, I aim for 3 night a week guilds.
    Imperator Mar'gok - Jan 19, 2015 US 30
    Brackenspore - Dec 10, 2014 World 2nd (brief stint trying hardcore raiding :P)
    Garrosh - Dec 22, 2013 US 33
    Lei Shen - Jun 23, 2013 US 100

    After tier 17 I've been much more casual though, just clearing M content and hanging around the ~20OC Mark.
    - Posted some of my other kill dates from WoD as reference, not to compare.
    Last edited by Yunaqt; 2017-03-13 at 02:15 AM.

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by obbag View Post
    I probably would've stopped playing a while ago but things like titanforging, legendaries, AP farming, hidden skins and even professions (random recipe drops, etc.) keep me from quitting. So much RNG makes this game feel very grindy but still it's well hidden. They keep everything interesting away from us and neither skill nor effort rewards you. You have to do the same things over and over again and from time to time they'll give you some candy and it's just barely enough to make you play more. Blizz are geniuses, perfectly manipulating us.
    Tbf, if a player's enjoyment of the game is solely derived from getting a piece of gear, it's no wonder they're so angry with Legion...
    I see it as "I play the game, have fun and get rewarded in ways that matter to me". Of things that matter to me, the soon-replaced pieces of epix come in at place 10 or so... I need them because they're a tool, but the reward comes from downing a new boss with the guild and moving on to the next.

    I do my WQ's because I like playing the game and pottering around in the world has always been dear to me... The people I know that care ONLY for the legendary, don't even bother with WQ's. They run Mythic+ and Mythic raids. When I am out doing WQ's, I'm also out progressing my character's Prestige, getting materials for crafting, interracting with other players, seeing the world etc etc...

    I wouldn't go as far as to say that it's "addicting us to gambling"... You've paid an incredibly small sum of money (or even just gold) to play the game. The rewards you can get are still anchored in set values, the chance you have at something more being treated as an absolute is the problem that part of the community seem to have.
    Last edited by Queen of Hamsters; 2017-03-13 at 02:26 AM.

  5. #345
    In WoD people were very vocal that they had nothing to do outside of raiding, casual players who tend not to raid found they had little to do once they hit cap and finished the garrison campaign. As a raider at the time I didn't mind having less to do. If I wasn't raiding I was farming mats for raid buffs and making some gold on the side. Any additional free time I had I played something else.

    At the start of Legion I got in to mythic raiding and was having fun (mostly) I didn't start to feel the grind until after Christmas. I don't mind the grind when it feels rewarding but it got to the point where I was getting loads of gear none of it any good. Getting loads of AP was great until what you get is just a drop in the ocean compared to what you need. Legion has filled the void of nothing to do with grinds. However from my perspective that void of nothing to do didn't really affect me as a raider, but adding a grind for traits and a passive buff does.

    I no longer raid to the level I did at the start of the expansion, partly to do with the grind amongst other reasons. I've had my fill with WoW this expansion, I still login to see who's on, if anything interesting is happening. If not I log off and open my Steam library.

    If you value your time playing WoW, but you're not enjoying the game because of a grind, you're doing it wrong. Do something else either in game or play something different. The time I would have spent farming AP and order hall resources this week, I played the Bioshock games back to back instead. So would you kindly give it rest with AP and resource grind

  6. #346
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    Tbf, if a player's enjoyment of the game is solely derived from getting a piece of gear, it's no wonder they're so angry with Legion...
    I see it as "I play the game, have fun and get rewarded in ways that matter to me". Of things that matter to me, the soon-replaced pieces of epix come in at place 10 or so... I need them because they're a tool, but the reward comes from downing a new boss with the guild and moving on to the next.

    I do my WQ's because I like playing the game and pottering around in the world has always been dear to me... The people I know that care ONLY for the legendary, don't even bother with WQ's. They run Mythic+ and Mythic raids. When I am out doing WQ's, I'm also out progressing my character's Prestige, getting materials for crafting, interracting with other players, seeing the world etc etc...

    I wouldn't go as far as to say that it's "addicting us to gambling"... You've paid an incredibly small sum of money (or even just gold) to play the game. The rewards you can get are still anchored in set values, the chance you have at something more being treated as an absolute is the problem that part of the community seem to have.
    Ah well, it's not only about gear. I'd love to get a JC recipe from the Shade of Xavius but he just decides to not drop it and I killed hundreds of bacon monsters to feed them to nomi but I won't get the rank 3 feast recipe. I also harvested thousands of Starlight Roses but I still miss rank 3

    I like the social aspect about wow, playing with friends is fun and I also enjoy the nice look of Suramar. But I'm very angry that my effort I put into this game is not being rewarded. I want to work towards a goal. But everything is like "do random stuff again and again and maybe you'll get something. Or not.". I can't even see how far I'm away from getting Starlight Rose rank 3. I just don't know anything. It's unfair people get rank 3 after harvesting 10 roses. I harvested more than 100x that amount and I'm still not being rewarded. Same with Legendaries, recipes and all the other stuff. Everything is literally just gambling except for the social aspect and travelling through the World. And I'm very glad for you that you still enjoy WQs after doing them over and over again for over 5 months ^^
    Last edited by mmoc0d00d0d43b; 2017-03-13 at 02:55 AM.

  7. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    How about we make gear scale for raids too like PvP and bam, templates, and then we can see how much self-control we are having.

    I.E.: we farm cause we have to so we can be competitive, not because we like the content and the farm zzzz
    who's making you be competitive? its not the devs. you can raid just fine without doing a billion maw of souls runs for ap/legendary its your fault not the games.

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Haha same.

    That argument is hilarious. Do people really think "worst casual" is running around with 925 gear from World Quests and LFR? It cracks me up! World quest TF can't even go that high :P

    "Hey I quit cause some terribad casual got 870 TF shoulders last thursday"

    No really, I am not even joking. Some people actually quit because of this.
    Actually it can, but its likelyhood diminishes by each 5 ilvls by a massive degree 5 ilvl wf is like 20%, 10 is like 4%, 15 is <1%, 20 is 1/625, for each 5 higher or bonus ability multiply the probability by 1/5 and bu the time a wq could award a 925 item your chances are about as good as winning the California lottery 1/100s of millions of gear rolls. It happens so infrequently and then for that hopeless newb they only have that one item, its cool, but its not going to make them significantly more powerful by itself. TF something by 30 (very unlikely) (1/15000 or so) and you go up by 2 item levels overall. For it ro happen to be a bis trinket is even less likely if more impactful.

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    Overall a Mythic raider will obviously be better geared, yet a casual shouldn't even smell BiS or tier or anything close to 900.
    Why care what a casual receives though? casuals have always had access to high end loot if they needed through carry runs if they so desire.
    They're likely in full LFR/WQ gear ~860ilvl and for them to get super lucky and get a 920ilvl TF dream i'm sure they would be super stocked about it, linking to friends. Same with legendaries, they care a whole lot less about "Is it a good one?", and just excited about the drop itself.

    This doesn't affect raiders at all, it's borderline impossible for someone to fully get this kind of gear without raiding / High M+

    That you were this lucky to get this chest is incredible receiving an essentially Mythic TF tier piece, it means it's one less person to roll on tokens in guild in turn helping gear the guild further to raid. Will every raider spam LFR trying to replicate this kind of luck? Nope, but when it happens on that rare occasion it's a nice surprise usually followed by a laugh of disbelief.

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by Klingers View Post
    No, I think the OP and others have a point. You're right in the sense that WoW has always been grindy, but the big difference is that a lot of the game now feels grindier because they're less optional to the core game experience.

    It's one thing to have a faction of giants off in some ice cave somewhere that have a bit of story and some shoulder enchants. It's quite another to layer bar filling on top of bar filling on top of RNG on top of Arbitrary Magic Fun-points™ just to have an optimally-progressed endgame character.

    Legion has more to do. It has more variety. It also likes to time-gate things and use the same psychologically-manipulative and potentially dangerous gameplay loops that gambling machine companies use to suck you in. You feel angry and shitty, like you've "wasted a night" because you take some time off from the game. It's the hallmark of good casino design and the hallmark of player-unfriendly game design.

    Take flight. Flight is something that used to be something we earned for hitting max level. It was something we got used to, fully understood wasn't part of the expansion leveling experience, but kind of expected at endgame. Then Blizzard moved the goal-posts. Fanbois will predictably say "Well just don't do it. Don't complete the reputations. Skip the content you don't want to do". Yeah, sure. Skip a major thing we've grown used to having in the game as a major status symbol of hitting max level for over a decade. Sure, let's skip it. Yeesh.

    TLDR; It's true there's more options for how you play and plenty of variety and choices. But there's also a very seedy and psychologically manipulative component that has definitely progressed south of "fun" into the realm of "icky". It's subjective and your mileage may vary... But the grind is real, the grind is worse than it used to be and the grind isn't going anywhere. Buyer beware. That's all I'm saying.
    Again, allow me to wholeheartedly disagree with this sentiment. PVP was an infinitely larger grind then than it ever has been since. Raiding, as well, was much more intensive for someone who even just wished to "casually" raid. This game was grindy then, is grindy now, and will be grindy tomorrow.

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimnakh View Post
    Actually it can, but its likelyhood diminishes by each 5 ilvls by a massive degree 5 ilvl wf is like 20%, 10 is like 4%, 15 is <1%, 20 is 1/625, for each 5 higher or bonus ability multiply the probability by 1/5 and bu the time a wq could award a 925 item your chances are about as good as winning the California lottery 1/100s of millions of gear rolls. It happens so infrequently and then for that hopeless newb they only have that one item, its cool, but its not going to make them significantly more powerful by itself. TF something by 30 (very unlikely) (1/15000 or so) and you go up by 2 item levels overall. For it ro happen to be a bis trinket is even less likely if more impactful.
    I really tought it was a cap at 50 ilvl. Oh well but as you say the chance is minimal(and hey I rather win the lottery 14 times instead of decked 925 set then)

    Blzzard put it out si nicely here, this is for EN tho:

    Finally, our Raid Finder item. With a base Item Level of 835, it needs to upgrade 12 times to make it all the way to 895. Long story short, that's a 1 in 4096 chance of being 880. Let's say you get 2-3 items a week from fully clearing Raid Finder. You'd need to run Raid Finder every week for over 21 years in order to have a >50% chance of seeing a 895 item out of Emerald Nightmare LFR. By that time, we'll all be in item level 4000 gear as we play the latest Corgis Unleashed expansion on our VR decks (unlike the rest of this post, this part is entirely factual). But hey, you'll probably have that 895 Raid Finder item. Or you still might not. Still feel mandatory?

    http://www.wowhead.com/news=253854/t...stem-in-legion

    Have to add tho, the % chances are less than the number presented since they use a made up number, 50% on each 5 ilvl upgrade. Wich is alot higher than the actual chance of an item going into WF/TF

    So in theory, an ilvl 835 LFR item has an 0.0000000001% chance to roll a +60 Titanforged ilvl 895 version. I guess this can be used towards the emissary chest drop, wich I still wonder why is lower base ilvl than the actual world quest gear.

    I think this is interesting info, thanks for clearing it up
    Last edited by Doffen; 2017-03-13 at 10:50 AM.

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by Potentio View Post
    Yeah, but they equate "time played" with "fun had", Im sure. Therein lies the true tragedy right now.
    If you were an executive at a games company looking at the data, and you saw that people were spending more time playing the game, I'm sure you could be forgiven for assuming that they were enjoying it. Otherwise, why would they be doing it?

  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by IceMan1763 View Post
    When the Activision bosses tell the devs that "time played" is the new measuring stick for how successful WOW is, this is what you get.

    I think it should be "fun had" personally. Whether that person plays 10 hours per week or 40. At least, that would make the game good and not a horrible boring grindfest.
    People seem to forget so fast...

    - People complained in previous expansion that they have nothing to do... And in most of those complains they actually speak about how much hours playtime they have: "After 2h i have done everything on my main and alts, there is nothing else to do". So ofc a company will be using that value to value how good a game is.
    - The concept of MMO is being a grindfest, if you want to do something only once, than this game is not for people like you.

    I only play one class & spec (blood dk), and my playtime is average 4h a day. Still i come time short to actually do all i want. Still i never feel i need to grind (beside the 6 WQ for PVP).

    - wednesday and sunday are raid nights
    - saturday is M+ night
    - other days are for the Archeology quest, timewalking, WQ catchup, achievement runs, reputation (i skipped MOP)

    All this since start of the expansion.

    I think people force themself to much. Or its because they are not playing the most fun class & spec in game

  14. #354
    I giggle a little bit every time I see someone complain about grind and MMO in the same sentence. Every single MMO ever created has been about grinding. Every single one is about doing the same things over and over. Whether it's crafting, gathering resources, doing a dungeon, leveling, PvP and yes even raiding are grinds. All of them.

    Now you may find certain ones more enjoyable than others, but no matter what you do in an MMO it will have a grind aspect to it. The entire genre is built on it, and has always been built on it. If you don't like them then you don't really like the genre, or have just grown tired of it and need to move on.

    I don't care what MMO you go to on the market, you are going to grind, and yes some out there make Legion look like childs play when it comes to grinding.

  15. #355
    If you can't see the difference between wow and legion wow you are blind.

    They've removed the steady progression through tiers and replaced it with Warforge Titanforge Legendary Artifact Power endless grind. Much like Diablo 3.

    Some of it is good, some of it is bad(current AP system, Legendaries(LOL).

    My suggestion is to ignore the grind, get a character with a lucky legendary drop(I've got 5 alts because of this) and stick with it if you like the playstyle.

    I'm currently in a casual 8 hours a week 3/10mythic raiding guild, barely play outside raids and no one seems to care I only have 48pts in my weapon.

    As long as I don't care about min-maxing I can basically dick around on alts etc as much as I want.

  16. #356
    Pandaland TWing was funny, queued in on my 871 havoc and tank is pulling... decently, he's going a normal pace and he is seeing the numbers me and this hunter are pulling and after the platform/gong boss in Nuizo... he just starts pulling boss to boss. We requeue and goes boss to boss for the next 3 whole dungeons. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

    Should have been harder, but nothing in this game really is aside from those that like to Mythic it up.
    Quote Originally Posted by THE Bigzoman View Post
    Meant Wetback. That's what the guy from Home Depot called it anyway.
    ==================================
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    I'll say no because it is shorter than yes.
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  17. #357
    I am mostly annoyed about the amount of grinding and RNG involved in getting rank 3 herbs. I have farmed over 10,000 Aethril to try to proc rank 3, and I have no higher chance at getting it than when I started, which to me is the most annoying part. My buddy got his in under 70 nodes. I've read people farmed closer to 20k Aethril before getting rank 3.

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by ItachiZaku View Post
    Pandaland TWing was funny, queued in on my 871 havoc and tank is pulling... decently, he's going a normal pace and he is seeing the numbers me and this hunter are pulling and after the platform/gong boss in Nuizo... he just starts pulling boss to boss. We requeue and goes boss to boss for the next 3 whole dungeons. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

    Should have been harder, but nothing in this game really is aside from those that like to Mythic it up.

    MoP Heroics were insanely face roll at the time anyways so I wasn't expecting anything but that anyways. They were insanely easy back then as soon as you dinged max, so it's actually a pretty close representation of them heh.

  19. #359
    Can't agree more with you OP.

    All the "content" mentioned in your post are indeed a mindless, roflstomping, non-challenging and unfun grind. As non-challenging content, they shouldn't reward gear, AP or anything that can help for the end-game content.

  20. #360
    I never take these "Nu-WoW" posts seriously. I can't. The game was always very grindy and skill was always a substitute for having to grind. If you're no longer interested in the game, that's fine. The assertion that WoW wasn't just as if not more grindy in the past however is an assertion I can't take seriously. All that changes is your perspective on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kekekz View Post
    Everyone hated BC, everyone hated Wrath, everyone hated Cata and everyone will hate MoP. MoP will become the new worst expansion and Al'akir or BoT will become the new "last good raid" or something stupid like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelliak View Post
    You're now blocked. Told you I was done with you. You want to pick fights over minute details as if this is the fucking presidential debate on a gaming forum.
    Enjoy.

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