WoW became a horrible boring grindfest

[ItachiZaku]

MoP Heroics were insanely face roll at the time anyways so I wasn't expecting anything but that anyways. They were insanely easy back then as soon as you dinged max, so it's actually a pretty close representation of them heh.

Yeah, you're right about that. I was still hoping for... or maybe I wasn't. I got my battle pets and an upgrade, so it is what it is lol

[Deleted]

I giggle a little bit every time I see someone complain about grind and MMO in the same sentence. Every single MMO ever created has been about grinding. Every single one is about doing the same things over and over. Whether it's crafting, gathering resources, doing a dungeon, leveling, PvP and yes even raiding are grinds. All of them.

Now you may find certain ones more enjoyable than others, but no matter what you do in an MMO it will have a grind aspect to it. The entire genre is built on it, and has always been built on it. If you don't like them then you don't really like the genre, or have just grown tired of it and need to move on.

I don't care what MMO you go to on the market, you are going to grind, and yes some out there make Legion look like childs play when it comes to grinding.

The grind and RNG have gone to unbelievable levels in Legion.
Yes, grind and RNG are part of the genre, but increased complaining stems from Legion going overboard with them...

And to those people who say WoD had nothing to do and that those same people who whine now whined back then about different issues:

I doubt it. In order for there to be something to do, you dont have to make more parts of the game RNG-based and manipulate the playerbase to keep playing the game for longer. That is just artificial content.. Legion does not in any way have more content than previous expansions, it is just that rewards are handed out much less generously. This creates the illusion there is a lot of stuff to do.

Personally, I have become a raidlogger by now. The level of RNG is disgusting. (And no, previous expansions did not have as much of it)

[Deleted]

Grind would not be that bad if it had more structure. When you grind reputation for a faction, you have a clear progression structure with reputation points needed for a level and activities which reward a specific amount of reputation points. You can plan accordingly and priorize activities which have a stronger contribution to your goal higher than the ones with a weaker contribution. And you can estimate the time you will need to get to your goal and finish the grind. Or farming rare materials for a crafted item (like we have had elemental fire, water, earth etc. in Classic and earlier expansions) - there, you had a grind, but you could select mobs with the highest drop rate to speed up the process, or farm gold instead and buy the materials in the AH.

And then there are random grinds, these are horrible. Like doing emissary chests or any repetition of a WQ or farm a specific mythic dungeon / raid boss and HOPING that you get a random upgrade which puts the reward on a higher item level than the item you currently have in slot, or HOPING to get a legendary. This is a very bad kind of grind because you never can tell when you are done. It keeps you occupied with things which you should have ignored by now in every other expansion, but you cannot ignore now, or you will be missing out a potential upgrade.

Legion has too much of the wrong kind of grind.

[Dequanacus]

in vanilla leveling was hard. not only in time comitment but foremost in what you are doing. you have to pull carefully. you have to check if you are ready to kill a single elite mob without help. and, when you wasnt hunter or lock, you have to cc or run when something gone wrong. and much much more, thats the opposite of brainless aoe grinds.

(i dont wanna give too much vanilla examples here, bc i want not derail it into a classic vs retail thread).

And just as you now find the game trivial and grindy, people found leveling in Vanilla trivial and grindy. It's subjective and nothing you said about Vanilla applies any more than it does now unless you assume people find Vanilla just as difficult as you did. Vanilla was grindy and current WoW is grindy. You're personal experience with each one does not make it more or less grindy.

[Matthias]

Timewalking shouldn't be challenging at all because people have either forgotten the mechanics or never knew them. It would be a royal pain in a queuing system to do.

As for the grind...still a bit baffled here. Pretty sure I grinded every single expac. Only difference with Legion which people can't seem to come to grips with is that you can't really "finish" a character. As in get all your BiS gear and move on to your next character, rinse and repeat until the next tier.

I personally love that there is almost always something I can be doing while I'm actually on my main. The fact that since WoTLK people would have 5+ fully decked out toons to the point that you can't even distinguish your main, just displays a lack of character progression options. In Vanilla and TBC rolling alts wasn't really a thing. You could cap them a do a little something on em, but you were normally back on your main.

Also most of the stuff the OP mentioned are optional!

WQ: brainless grind - I only do these when I either need resources or feel that I'm due for a Legendary, haven't done em in weeks
Worldboss: brainless grind People still do these? Unless it's Wither'd Jim I don't bother
TW dungeons: brainless grind I hate TW, but I do appreciate Blizzard making use of old content.
HC/Normal dungeons: brainless grind I wouldn't call Heroic brainless unless your in a guild that has it on farm
Quests: brainless grind Isn't this redundant with WQ?
Mythic+: brainless (aoe) grind, with a very small movement skill part Best thing to happen to the game in years, needs tweeks, but I normally just do my 15 and call it a week.
LFR: brainless grind I haven't looked at LFR since Cataclysm when it was essentially mandatory
Professions: brainless grind (via quests or gettin mats) lol? This is new?
Leveling: brainless grind Seriously? Unless your referring to just how easy leveling is now which is tragic I agree.

[Dequanacus]

As a personal note: i slowly get the feeling here are A LOT ppl posting, starting this game (or other mmorpgs) in MoP or later. Since i get the feeling ppl have this "it was always like that" feeling and cant understand whats wrong (or better: whats wrong for ppl like me) with a brainless aoe grind in nearly every aspect of the game.

I want not say anything with that statement, its just something that seems repetitive happen in this thread. and it would explain some things for me and give me more insight why are ppl accept braindead aoe grinding as a standard.

You simply struggled in areas others didn't earlier in the game's lifespan. The way you look down on the difficulty of current WoW is how people looked down on earlier xpacs. You're trying to assert that how difficult you found the game years ago was the norm when it wasn't.

[Deleted]

And then there are random grinds, these are horrible. Like doing emissary chests or any repetition of a WQ or farm a specific mythic dungeon / raid boss and HOPING that you get a random upgrade which puts the reward on a higher item level than the item you currently have in slot, or HOPING to get a legendary. This is a very bad kind of grind because you never can tell when you are done. It keeps you occupied with things which you should have ignored by now in every other expansion, but you cannot ignore now, or you will be missing out a potential upgrade.

Legion has too much of the wrong kind of grind.

Very well said.

Also, new in 7.2: a chance to get a faction mount after reaching 20k post-exalted rep. Grind and RNG are good friends in Legion. They used to not go hand in hand.

[Kuntantee]

WoW has become an uninspired non-innovative boring grind fest. I think this is a better description. While Legion is much better than WoD, but so long as the core philosophy of post-WotLK remains there, the game will never be that good.

[Deleted]

yeah, we had a lot of threads lately about how much and how boring AP WQ/M+ grind is. But thats not the core i wanna discussing here.

Today i played Pandaland Timewalker Dungeons. While the TBC TW Dungeons, when introduced firsttime, have at least a little bit "challenge" bc at least it was a little bit spiky in terms of your life and incoming dmg. at least the heal had to ... heal. But this TW dungeons are a smash grindfest. Run (bash, rush) 10 min through the dungeon, kill every mob in under 1s and wait for dialogs to finish. Its just another absurd grind.

So, when i look at the game overall, at the moment, i nearly see massive brainless (aoe) grind literally eveywhere.

WQ: brainless grind
Worldboss: brainless grind
TW dungeons: brainless grind
HC/Normal dungeons: brainless grind
Quests: brainless grind
Mythic+: brainless (aoe) grind, with a very small movement skill part
LFR: brainless grind
Professions: brainless grind (via quests or gettin mats)
Leveling: brainless grind

Even normal raids are that forgiving that, with very little overgear, are nearly brainless grinds.

So, besides HC and Myth Raid, there is nothing in the game, even with the slightest form of challenge, that isnt a brainless grind. Even a +15 m+ is horrible grindy, without much challenge or even some form of tactic/cc or whatever. all base on heavy aoe grinding.

Ofc, MMORPGs are grindy by nature. And thats fine. But wow became a horrible stupid brainless grindfest in nearly every aspect of the game.

Horrible, imo.

What do you think? Is this whole brainless grindfest really fun for you? Longterm? Or do you think WoW is not a D3 grindfest? And why?

/discuss

Not reading the whole 20 page thread, but i will give a quick answer.

The "brainless" grindfest is the logic result of creating multiple difficulties in WoW. You said that yourself "Besides HC and Myth Raid...." (and i cuold add high lvl myt dungeons too).

Think it backwards, why shuold LFR or normal and hc dungeon (for example) be hard if you have Heroic and Mythic difficulties and Myt Plus? Think about this like a DOOM game, of the old Wolfstein, you had like 6 differents difficulties, but i doubt someone was whining about the noob one, being, well, for noobs.

Now we can argue if there is a middleground in WoW right now, but that's a different topic.

For my personal experience, i enjoy WoW right now, because it offer me something to do even if i don't have a lot of time to invest into the game. BUT i also know that there is a LOT of things to do for the ones who have a lot of time and will to improve into the game.

[Accendor]

yeah, we had a lot of threads lately about how much and how boring AP WQ/M+ grind is. But thats not the core i wanna discussing here.

Today i played Pandaland Timewalker Dungeons. While the TBC TW Dungeons, when introduced firsttime, have at least a little bit "challenge" bc at least it was a little bit spiky in terms of your life and incoming dmg. at least the heal had to ... heal. But this TW dungeons are a smash grindfest. Run (bash, rush) 10 min through the dungeon, kill every mob in under 1s and wait for dialogs to finish. Its just another absurd grind.

So, when i look at the game overall, at the moment, i nearly see massive brainless (aoe) grind literally eveywhere.

WQ: brainless grind
Worldboss: brainless grind
TW dungeons: brainless grind
HC/Normal dungeons: brainless grind
Quests: brainless grind
Mythic+: brainless (aoe) grind, with a very small movement skill part
LFR: brainless grind
Professions: brainless grind (via quests or gettin mats)
Leveling: brainless grind

Even normal raids are that forgiving that, with very little overgear, are nearly brainless grinds.

So, besides HC and Myth Raid, there is nothing in the game, even with the slightest form of challenge, that isnt a brainless grind. Even a +15 m+ is horrible grindy, without much challenge or even some form of tactic/cc or whatever. all base on heavy aoe grinding.

Ofc, MMORPGs are grindy by nature. And thats fine. But wow became a horrible stupid brainless grindfest in nearly every aspect of the game.

Horrible, imo.

What do you think? Is this whole brainless grindfest really fun for you? Longterm? Or do you think WoW is not a D3 grindfest? And why?

/discuss

The only aspect that you are right about is that everything is way to easy. The problem is not the grind itself, it is that it is mindless because of its low difficulty.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Why you even try to misinterpret?

I have specifically said "BiS". In case you still don't get it, I'm mostly talking about BiS legendaries here, which some of my raiders still miss, even while having 8-9 of them. Not overall ilvl and performance. Also talking about the TF chances, I have a LFR tier chest, 920, for example. I pass on M Krosus chests due to having LFR one, it's ridiculous, it should never-ever be possible.

Overall a Mythic raider will obviously be better geared, yet a casual shouldn't even smell BiS or tier or anything close to 900.

TL;DR? Content should reward based on difficulty, STRICTLY, like it used to be, without any chance to "forge", and especially without any chance to give legendaries from WQs and dumb shit.

Yeah, yeah, I'm a horrible elitist, I know, I eat kids for dinner, just cause I want a FAIR reward system based on time investment, dedication and skill, NOT LUCK. Hate on me.



WoW without competing for ranks is worthless piece of trash, more or less. And you need to be good and farm lots for that, which is a loss of our time.

so your wasting your own time cause you think wow is worthless trash? still not the devs/games fault still yours.

[Deleted]

Timewalking shouldn't be challenging at all because people have either forgotten the mechanics or never knew them. It would be a royal pain in a queuing system to do.

As for the grind...still a bit baffled here. Pretty sure I grinded every single expac. Only difference with Legion which people can't seem to come to grips with is that you can't really "finish" a character. As in get all your BiS gear and move on to your next character, rinse and repeat until the next tier.

I personally love that there is almost always something I can be doing while I'm actually on my main. The fact that since WoTLK people would have 5+ fully decked out toons to the point that you can't even distinguish your main, just displays a lack of character progression options. In Vanilla and TBC rolling alts wasn't really a thing. You could cap them a do a little something on em, but you were normally back on your main.

Also most of the stuff the OP mentioned are optional!

Emissary chests from WQs, world bosses, raid-difficulty rares, and some other of these things fall into the pool of activities which can reward a legendary. I have 3 legendaries on my main, one is good, one is OK and the third one is just bad. I don't feel that I am done with that character in terms of legendaries. Also, many activities in this regard are quite out of reach for me (in fact any organised thing with a weekly schedule - thank you very much, I have enough schedules in my life already, and sometimes unpredictable work hours on top). So I am stuck with boring random grinds.

[Demonidze]

wow was always a terrible grindfest. nice that you noticed. lol

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Emissary chests from WQs, world bosses, raid-difficulty rares, and some other of these things fall into the pool of activities which can reward a legendary. I have 3 legendaries on my main, one is good, one is OK and the third one is just bad. I don't feel that I am done with that character in terms of legendaries. Also, many activities in this regard are quite out of reach for me (in fact any organised thing with a weekly schedule - thank you very much, I have enough schedules in my life already, and sometimes unpredictable work hours on top). So I am stuck with boring random grinds.

You don't feel. its not the game doesn't feel its you all of that stuff is optional no one makes you do it but your self. you don't like the grind? then don't do it its that simple.

[Cuppy]

This. Legion has showed us the might of "time-played".
I've done a bunch of quests that require you to just walk. Nothing, but walk. Walk with weights to make it take few more extra seconds.

[Matthias]

Emissary chests from WQs, world bosses, raid-difficulty rares, and some other of these things fall into the pool of activities which can reward a legendary. I have 3 legendaries on my main, one is good, one is OK and the third one is just bad. I don't feel that I am done with that character in terms of legendaries. Also, many activities in this regard are quite out of reach for me (in fact any organised thing with a weekly schedule - thank you very much, I have enough schedules in my life already, and sometimes unpredictable work hours on top). So I am stuck with boring random grinds.

I'm not sure what your problem is. It sounds like your casual, you have two legendary's that are at least decent. Even if all of your legendary's were lousy, your not raiding Mythic so who cares? I go crazy hunting down legendary items.

And what do you mean any "organized thing in a weekly schedule"? The game is literally designed so you can do most things at any time, except for Mythic. I pug my way into AoTC all the time.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure what your problem is. It sounds like your casual, you have two legendary's that are at least decent. Even if all of your legendary's were lousy, your not raiding Mythic so who cares? I go crazy hunting down legendary items.

And what do you mean any "organized thing in a weekly schedule"? The game is literally designed so you can do most things at any time, except for Mythic. I pug my way into AoTC all the time.

I don't enjoy pugs anymore, and I usually don't have much luck when I look out for some, because when I come home from work, most raids have already started for some hours. Pugging works out in some exceptional cases, like when I got my Xavius NHC and Gul'dan NHC kills for Pathfinder I and Suramar Questline on a weekend (did not want to wait for weeks and then wipe endlessly in LFR which should have a skill check like WoD heroics did, but PG gold instead of silver). But I know that I could not manage pugging raids every week, especially now when fire mages are mediocre at best and I don't have any frost legendaries and only 35 points in my frost weapon to switch. (And I know how to play frost mage, that's not the problem.) Pugging raids in WotLK was much easier, and I was pugging raids since end of Classic, but with the item level and achievement demands, I just could not compete with inflated demands anymore.

[HordeFanboy]

Every current expansion is the worst expansion ever.

Every past expansion was so much greater.

We have seen this pattern before.

It has never been true.

If you hate the game stop playing.

No one cares about your single data point QQ.

Yes Ive already stopped playing this brainless game. Not worth my money anymore

[Kazgrel]

Pandaland TWing was funny, queued in on my 871 havoc and tank is pulling... decently, he's going a normal pace and he is seeing the numbers me and this hunter are pulling and after the platform/gong boss in Nuizo... he just starts pulling boss to boss. We requeue and goes boss to boss for the next 3 whole dungeons. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

Should have been harder, but nothing in this game really is aside from those that like to Mythic it up.

So MoP TW dungeons are as faceroll as the dungeons were when they were current, lol.

Hell I remember queueing random heroics with a full group of friends where we all went to dps specs and I was the "tank" as an ele shaman...think we cleared some of those dungeons in the 8-9 min range.

Regarding the OP's point:

There have always been grindfests throughout the course of WoW as well as the MMO genre. It's a matter of the grinds feeling fun (for a while) and being reasonably rewarding. Then again, Hydraxian Waterlords rep is good for nothing more than 10 achieve points nowadays, iirc.

[Deleted]

Only becuz you haven't played games that are a true grind, try the korean MMOs. Then you will understand a grind.

like aion you mean. played that too & got my cleric to max level.
...next.