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  1. #1281
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post
    Well not exactly statistics, but this user has one of their WA2 which tracks the damage types: http://pastebin.com/tDqsPpMD (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ll-talents-etc) maybe it helps if you cannot find a details! version.
    Wow, just what I wanted!
    Many thanks!

  2. #1282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pumpsm8 View Post
    Waist - Cinidaria, the Symbiote - Your attacks cause an additional 30% damage as Physical to enemies above 90% health and leech 100% of the damage back.
    Decent secondaries, a little underrated, good for 5 mans and burstier add content. Cheese potential on bosses or adds that stay above 90% or have multiple high hp phases. Leech great for necrotic as it ignores necrotic.
    Symbiote Strike healing from Cinidaria doesn't ignore Necrotic - only true Leech does. Sorry about this small nitpick, thanks for the great guide!
    Last edited by Khiyone; 2017-03-12 at 04:01 PM.

  3. #1283
    I have a question regarding the value of agility offensively. I know defensively it's crap, but is that still the case offensively (after 7.1.5 I mean)? More specifically, is a pure agility trinket even worth taking over a pure haste or crit trinket? The agility trinket is ~20 ilvls higher than the crit/haste trinket.

    AMR says it's not. Just wanna be sure.
    Last edited by Aswadd; 2017-03-12 at 10:06 PM.

  4. #1284
    Quote Originally Posted by Aswadd View Post
    I have a question regarding the value of agility offensively. I know defensively it's crap, but is that still the case offensively (after 7.1.5 I mean)? More specifically, is a pure agility trinket even worth taking over a pure haste or crit trinket? The agility trinket is ~20 ilvls higher than the crit/haste trinket.

    AMR says it's not. Just wanna be sure.
    My pawn has agi almost equal to haste. I'd go with the one with the most stats on it.

  5. #1285
    Afaik AGI is superior to everything, sims could have changed but i really doubt agi is equal with haste.

  6. #1286
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyen View Post
    Afaik AGI is superior to everything, sims could have changed but i really doubt agi is equal with haste.
    I thought agi was about equal, but there's always about twice the amount of agi than secondary on an item, which is why agi wins. That's been my general understanding.
    Agi for me is simming .7 where haste is .65

    EDIT: to clarify, I don't sim for catweave

  7. #1287
    From 7.2 PTR:

    Intimidating Roar now roots targets in place (was a 50% snare).

    Mangle damage increased by 15%.

    Thrash (Bear) direct damage increased by 15%.

    Swipe (Bear) damage reduced by 25%.

    Developers’ Notes: This should result in overall Guardian damage remaining roughly the same, perhaps slightly higher. But it will frontload their damage more, which should help with burst threat.
    Slight nerf to sustained aoe damage unless you have luffas + thrash relics? ST not "perhaps slightly higher" but definitely slightly higher, ~3-4% I guess.

    The dev note makes no sense at all given

    Player Taunts now increase all threat caused against the target by 400% (was 200%).
    though. "We just gave you 66% higher burst threat, so let's change some random spells because...burst threat"?

  8. #1288
    I read the PTR notes as "I hope you like farming for Thrash relics" with a side of "Moonfire threat is working as intended." All joking aside, I guess they're indicating that we'll have higher burst threat, but it still won't compare to other tanks' burst threat... so here's a taunt modifier increase to assist. Doesn't make me feel much better for Skittish affix week, I gave up trying to hold threat against Fury warriors. Well, here's hoping I get Thrash bracer sometime soon (currently at 9 Guardian legendaries, so I suppose technically my next legendary HAS to be the Thrash bracer ).

  9. #1289
    Quote Originally Posted by roi View Post
    Slight nerf to sustained aoe damage unless you have luffas + thrash relics?
    The slight nerf is independent of any gear you had, because no matter how strong it would buff thrash, it still had the same cooldown, and you filled that with swipe.
    One thing to remember however is that you get a 4th point in the thrash trait on top of this through the 7.2 weapon upgrade as well.

    It does front-load the threat/damage more without reducing the overall damage too much, and AoE DPS was a really strong area for bears anyway, so it seems fine.

    Note that the taunt change is for all tanks. There may not even be a relation to bear threat at all. If anything it may also help when tanks are geared un-evenly, no matter of class, which happens all the time.

    For skittish, the bracers can not save some over-eager DPSers either, they have to learn for themselves how to play carefully.
    Last edited by Nevcairiel; 2017-03-13 at 04:07 PM.

  10. #1290
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    I read the PTR notes as "I hope you like farming for Thrash relics" with a side of "Moonfire threat is working as intended." All joking aside, I guess they're indicating that we'll have higher burst threat, but it still won't compare to other tanks' burst threat... so here's a taunt modifier increase to assist. Doesn't make me feel much better for Skittish affix week, I gave up trying to hold threat against Fury warriors. Well, here's hoping I get Thrash bracer sometime soon (currently at 9 Guardian legendaries, so I suppose technically my next legendary HAS to be the Thrash bracer ).
    Still have no clue why they don't add threat to Guardian Moonfire. That'd help a lot considering how much they want us to use it if you take GG.

  11. #1291
    Quote Originally Posted by Ausr View Post
    Still have no clue why they don't add threat to Guardian Moonfire. That'd help a lot considering how much they want us to use it if you take GG.
    That. EXACTLY that!

    Back in WoLK, FF generated threat. Was considered free threat actually as it didn't cost any rage. Why moonfire is not following those footsteps is beyond me.

  12. #1292
    Moonfire has threat, its just ... inconsistent. If I go to the tank training dummy and try it out with Omen on, it seems fine mostly. All targeted attempts I made seem to produce threat properly.

    But then, when I just run my rotation for a while, eventually threat and damage go out of sync (should be 10x threat as damage), and threat is around 10% lower then it should be. I'm not sure which component does not produce threat in those situations. Its definitely not as simple as "moonfire does no threat", though. Maybe its the MF proc from GG (the automatic free MF, not the buffed MF you can cast yourself), but thats hard to test out.

    Sounds more like a weird bug somewhere then an intentional decision not to give MF threat.
    Last edited by Nevcairiel; 2017-03-13 at 07:01 PM.

  13. #1293
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    The slight nerf is independent of any gear you had, because no matter how strong it would buff thrash, it still had the same cooldown, and you filled that with swipe.
    One thing to remember however is that you get a 4th point in the thrash trait on top of this through the 7.2 weapon upgrade as well.

    It does front-load the threat/damage more without reducing the overall damage too much, and AoE DPS was a really strong area for bears anyway, so it seems fine.

    Note that the taunt change is for all tanks. There may not even be a relation to bear threat at all. If anything it may also help when tanks are geared un-evenly, no matter of class, which happens all the time.

    For skittish, the bracers can not save some over-eager DPSers either, they have to learn for themselves how to play carefully.
    Um, no.....
    The most "aoe" rotation you can have is thrash, swipe, swipe, swipe, repeat.
    We lose 25% of all 3 swipes, but gain 15% of a thrash. The buff/nerf balance is contingent on whether 15% thrash is > or < 75% swipe.
    Relics traits and Luffas will improve the value of thrash (and thus of 15% thrash) but will not change the value of swipe. In principle, enough of these bonuses will tip the balance so that the 15% buff to thrash outweighs the 25% nerf to swipe.

    Nevertheless, in realistic situations, its a nerf.
    BreweRyge: Adds a resource meter for Brewmaster brews, as if they were on a rage- or energy-type system.
    Hidden Artifact Tracker: Adds your progress on unlocking the extra tints for your hidden artifact appearance to the item tooltip.

  14. #1294
    Quote Originally Posted by Yxiomel View Post
    Um, no.....
    The most "aoe" rotation you can have is thrash, swipe, swipe, swipe, repeat.
    We lose 25% of all 3 swipes, but gain 15% of a thrash. The buff/nerf balance is contingent on whether 15% thrash is > or < 75% swipe.
    Relics traits and Luffas will improve the value of thrash (and thus of 15% thrash) but will not change the value of swipe. In principle, enough of these bonuses will tip the balance so that the 15% buff to thrash outweighs the 25% nerf to swipe.

    Nevertheless, in realistic situations, its a nerf.
    Aren't you arguing against your own proposal? With 3 thrash relics and luffa 15% thrash easily outweighs 75% swipe, this is a realistic scenario. Anyone with Luffa's has this scenario. Just saying in your last line it isn't doesn't make it true.

    EDIT: Sorry I might've come across a bit harsh.
    I merely mean in a high-end scenario this is a buff.
    In a low-end scenario this is a nerf.
    Last edited by CenariusTheForestLord; 2017-03-13 at 09:54 PM.

  15. #1295
    I was being pedantic about "gear having no effect" since it clearly does (and the rationale for why it wouldn't being specious).
    My last statement was because, as I posted, it occured to me that for 15% thrash > 75% swipe (this is for pure AoE where you fill all 3 globals between thrash with a swipe) then you would have to get Thrash doing more than 5 times swipes damage, which it does not.

    For my gear, swipe's tooltip is for ~115k (does about 80k) damage, where thrash is for ~166k (which it does)
    Upgrading my 4/4 thrash to 6/6 would make it do ~190k; and getting the bracers would reach 237k.

    I am losing 60k and gaining 35k to compensate - nerf; but it could be a buff if relics/luffa where worth more (which was all I was pointing out, gear does matter)!

    Correct me if I am wrong, but if I were to improve my ilvl both attacks would scale similarly (neither has any special scaling mechanic and benefit from crit, haste, vers and AP [via mastery or agi] proportionately).

    Only time it might be a buff is if you are on targets with way more armour than training dummies; then the buff could be realised. I'm not in a position to swipe Mythic Gul'dan to check though
    Last edited by Yxiomel; 2017-03-13 at 10:14 PM.
    BreweRyge: Adds a resource meter for Brewmaster brews, as if they were on a rage- or energy-type system.
    Hidden Artifact Tracker: Adds your progress on unlocking the extra tints for your hidden artifact appearance to the item tooltip.

  16. #1296
    Quote Originally Posted by Yxiomel View Post
    I was being pedantic about "gear having no effect" since it clearly does (and the rationale for why it wouldn't being specious).
    My last statement was because, as I posted, it occured to me that for 15% thrash > 75% swipe (this is for pure AoE where you fill all 3 globals between thrash with a swipe) then you would have to get Thrash doing more than 5 times swipes damage, which it does not.

    For my gear, swipe's tooltip is for ~115k (does about 80k) damage, where thrash is for ~166k (which it does)
    Upgrading my 4/4 thrash to 6/6 would make it do ~190k; and getting the bracers would reach 237k.

    I am losing 60k and gaining 35k to compensate - nerf; but it could be a buff if relics/luffa where worth more (which was all I was pointing out, gear does matter)!

    Correct me if I am wrong, but if I were to improve my ilvl both attacks would scale similarly (neither has any special scaling mechanic and benefit from crit, haste, vers and AP [via mastery or agi] proportionately).

    Only time it might be a buff is if you are on targets with way more armour than training dummies; then the buff could be realised. I'm not in a position to swipe Mythic Gul'dan to check though
    I indeed overestimated how much damage swipe was doing
    Your math is about the same as my sample on a dummy just now.
    So I guess we can say, if we AOE dps whore with 3 GCD's in swipe, it's a nerf.
    In a normal rotation, 1 mangle, 1 moonfire, 1 swipe. It's a buff.

  17. #1297
    That's my conclusion. If mobs have more armour and mitigate swipe more, it'll be an AoE buff though, since armour doesn't affect thrash (as I understand it, cause its a bleed).
    BreweRyge: Adds a resource meter for Brewmaster brews, as if they were on a rage- or energy-type system.
    Hidden Artifact Tracker: Adds your progress on unlocking the extra tints for your hidden artifact appearance to the item tooltip.

  18. #1298
    I wish they'd just turn Mauler into Swiper...

    Also we forgot about http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=238121/pawsitive-outlook, which is another ~15% damage buff to the direct thrash damage (better when it procs early in the fight while stacking up rend and tear). 15% chance of getting burst threat in the opener, who could ask for more? lol

  19. #1299
    Quote Originally Posted by roi View Post
    I wish they'd just turn Mauler into Swiper...

    Also we forgot about http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=238121/pawsitive-outlook, which is another ~15% damage buff to the direct thrash damage (better when it procs early in the fight while stacking up rend and tear). 15% chance of getting burst threat in the opener, who could ask for more? lol
    the villagers are still outside with pitchforks and torches, so im waiting for some random nerfs

  20. #1300
    Quote Originally Posted by Yxiomel View Post
    That's my conclusion. If mobs have more armour and mitigate swipe more, it'll be an AoE buff though, since armour doesn't affect thrash (as I understand it, cause its a bleed).
    With the new trait it's a buff. On single target is a pretty decent buff also unless you get a dry streak of procs and don't catweave. Kinda blows on AoE though mainly for m+ with things like living bomb it was hard to keep threat in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    the villagers are still outside with pitchforks and torches, so im waiting for some random nerfs
    They have the right to be, bears are busted.

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