WTF is wrong with MW

[Krigaren]

Legion is the first time I've seriously tried another healing class other than H-Pal, and I couldn't agree more with all the things said about MW. It seems like the class is designed more around being "unique" and having an interesting, quirky playstyle than around actually being a useful, powerful healer.

My biggest issue with MW is the utility, as many people have said. Only really having Life Cocoon and Revival doesn't really make for a strong toolkit. And honestly, Refreshing Jade Wind and Invoke Chi-Ji should both be baseline abilities. RJW doesn't heal for a ton, but is great for mobility, and Invoke should be a utility cooldown in line with Tranquility / Healing Tide / Avenging Wrath.

Revival could stand to have the whole dispel mechanic removed in favor of a baseline HoT (If more fights were geared around needing mass dispels like in previous expansions I could understand the dispel mechanic, but in Legion it's worthless). It's base heal is pathetic, and in no way competes with other healer's cooldown abilities. I don't even think it's as powerful as Aura of Mercy with Aura Mastery popped.

Sheilun's Gift also needs to be reworked, for sure. I'd use it more if it weren't for the buildup required to actually make it's heal useful (up to 2 minutes for a full 12 stacks). The fact that it's cast timer is the same as Enveloping Mist is fine by me, I just dislike the long build-up time for it to only affect one player, which often ends up being an overheal. Put it on, say, a minute to a minute and a half cooldown to do the same massive heal, then we'd be on to something.

And on a more cosmetic note - I'd kill to have MW see some stat normalization. Depending on spec or even what kind of content you're doing, you could see any one of the secondary stats as the top stat. Mistweaving = Crit with Haste the lowest. Fistweaving = Versatility, with Mastery the lowest. Mythics = Haste the highest, tied with Mastery and Vers/Crit the lowest. The spec's stat priority is all over the damn place.

[Hodacia]

We have two main drawbacks: low hps at mythic level and lack of utility.
Our low hps is due to bad gear scalling, we are OP in normal, standard in heroic and low in mythic raiding. This could be fixed quit easily even before 7.2: hots have a 10% chance to triger gust of mist + remove the 30% buff to gust of the mist.
We would have a nice interaction between haste and mastery and thus a decent scalling.

The lack of utility is more complexe, we cannot expect someting before 7.3 or more probably before next xpack. I would like our spec to be the healer with a permanent pet:
-Chi-Ji, the Red Crane: low dps, have an aura (8 to 15 yards?) that increase mana regen
-Niuzao, the Black Ox: low dps, can have aggro and tank solo content and can interrupt (control by player)
-Xuen, the White Tiger: AOE dps, can interrupt (control by player)
-Yu'lon, the Jade Serpent: single target dps, can interrupt (control by player)

The pet can be summoned with a 90s CD, one active pet at a time obviously

Talent of level 90 can be change has followed:
OP Celestials: 45s with a 3min CD, the effect depends on active pet (Chi-Ji can heal, Xuen and Yu'lon have higher dps, Niuazo has higher armor)
Refreshing Jade Wind: heal and dps no mana cost -> replace Spinning Crane Kick but with higher damage, same heal but no more interaction with essence font (30s CD)
Jade serpent statue: trigger soothing mist and celestial breath

I have to say that I love your idea with permanent pets as MW. I'm intrigued

[Deleted]

The thing for me is, I understand that there always has to be a spec that's the lowest, but we are low at everything we do, there are a few small examples where you can shine, but they are so few it's worthless.

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Can anyone link the official forums thread for mw monk feedback to the Devs? All of this needs to be shown to them.

[SecSeibzehn]

The thing for me is, I understand that there always has to be a spec that's the lowest, but we are low at everything we do, there are a few small examples where you can shine, but they are so few it's worthless.

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Can anyone link the official forums thread for mw monk feedback to the Devs? All of this needs to be shown to them.

They saw it, but they just didn't care. Or they did and didn't realize what was going on so they had to scramble to say anything and are now furiously working on some replacement, but more than likely they are busy doing other things

https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...page=2#post-35

[Avada Kedavra]

The thing for me is, I understand that there always has to be a spec that's the lowest, but we are low at everything we do, there are a few small examples where you can shine, but they are so few it's worthless.

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Can anyone link the official forums thread for mw monk feedback to the Devs? All of this needs to be shown to them.

I did make a thread on the official forums but it has not got much attention though i hope someone at blizz saw it.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753635505

[Deleted]

I did make a thread on the official forums but it has not got much attention though i hope someone at blizz saw it.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753635505

I have just read that whole thread, it is absolutely awesome. It has made me realise though that it's time to re roll, for 7.2 I'm changing to holy pala and be done with it. We'all run double holy pala resto sham and a holy priest rather than me bumping me raid team with a mw.

The lack of attention that we've received and the fact the spec is to remain in such a broken state leaves us mythic raiders with no other choice.

That thread is absolutely amazing in terms of feedback and comparisons, the information is on the right place and it's still been ignored. It's pretty sad really and I feel for the rest of the player app who have dumped the last 4-5 months into this spec along side me.

All creedit to you for writing that post and trying to help the community and communicate with the deva, but there is no real fix incoming soon and the scaling will only get worse for us. Add that to the T20 bonuses and I hate to see the state the mw will be in.

[ElDoorO]

I really, REALLY, like the mistweaver playstyle. I strongly dislike druid healing but I've been building up my druid because it's just that much more useful.

Don't get me started on our artifact weapon and how shit it is.

[Spotnick]

If every fight was frost phase spellblade, tichondrius, frost/Fel phase star augur and illidan phase on guldan mythic, MWs would be the best/second best healer in the game.

Feelsbadman

Despite saying that, I'm quite sure I'd never top my resto druid with my mistweaver on Mythic Tichondrius. Granted we don't explode any brands, but still.. that's the problem with mistweavers, you can't easily heal specific targets and the raid at the same time. On my druid I have 4 hots on rogues soaking while I am putting 2 hots on every other people with the debuff, with my mistweaver I'd have to refresh Enveloping Mist often, burning my mana while spamming Essence Font to heal the full raid, and Renewing Mist would jump off important targets because they are often topped by drop really fast.

I just don't see how it could be competitive with a druid on that fight, but it's okay.

Of course, if you take the WOD HFC mistweaver nobody would be in the same league, but that's a different story.

But that's probably why you said second.

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I really, REALLY, like the mistweaver playstyle. I strongly dislike druid healing but I've been building up my druid because it's just that much more useful.

Don't get me started on our artifact weapon and how shit it is.

I used to say the same about my druid, somehow I got better at it and I like it more and more.

My only issue right now is not having Arcane Torrent.. I don't get healers that are not blood elves, that's so OP lol.

[ElDoorO]

I used to say the same about my druid, somehow I got better at it and I like it more and more.

My only issue right now is not having Arcane Torrent.. I don't get healers that are not blood elves, that's so OP lol.

I agree entirely. I chose belf because of Aracne Torrent. I'm a mix/maxer in that area. That and xmog fits them better.

I'm also learning little things, as a Druid, such as you HAVE to put down Eflo correctly. Another appeal is, I hear, Druids are very strong for Mythic+.

But still.. I really like my monk dammit. It works very well with the comp we're running too.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...4&type=healing

As you can tell I'm far from the best but I seem to compliment to team pretty well. I'm not sure another resto druid would compliment the team well and I worry if I go paladin we would have too many paladins in the raid. I'm not fond of priests or shamans, as far as healing is concerned -- also because I like having a tank spank.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...2&type=healing

And as you can tell some fights I'm not bad and other fights I'm bleh. I'm still learning. Some fights I can hot the 80%+ percentile and others I'm 20%. I use this to tell, roughly, where my skill likely is but I don't take it too much to heart because I know RNG can just be screwed. I just use it to see, roughly, where I stand.

I'm following the patch notes closely to see what they plan on doing to MW in 7.2. That may be the deciding factor for me.

[trm90]

The problem is that Blizzard have explicitly said they have no plans to make any sorely needed changes in 7.2.

In EN it was "fine", MWs kept up during the first week of M EN progression and fights like Cenarius or Ursoc lent pretty well to EF spam. Back then, healers were actually somewhat balanced. But once ToV arrived, they started to drop off the face of the earth as every other healer slowly began to outscale them. Then M NH comes around, and now healer imbalance is a very real problem, but Blizzard are still too stubborn to make any big changes.

The problem is exacerbated by the fact that more fights than ever are being 3-healed, which means that a class with lower throughput and utility is obviously going to shoved out.

It's actually really sad TBH. The spec played fine and had a better identity even with ReM + Uplift + Mana tea spam. I don't even know where to begin with where changes are needed. MW identity is weak, there's no utility, throughput is low, and the talent tree totally pales in comparison to other healers for so many reasons (3 rows don't augment healing and are super old talents that are shared with WWs/Brms, and too many talents are mana-related). Most of all, it really really doesn't help that literally no one plays MWs anymore, of course Blizzard have zero incentive to fix MWs when only a very minor portion will actually enjoy an overhaul. I've grown tired of my Holy Paladin, but even MWs in their broken state now are fun and you can see so much potential in it, but I just couldn't stomach rerolling to a class that is obviously receiving no attention and has no identity.

EDIT: Also wanted to support the other guy's idea of making MW a pet-based healing class, there is definitely a huge amount of potential there, but from a purely mechanical point of view a few more changes would still need to be made.

[Larinnian]

I wanted to swap to MW instead of my Holy Priest because I wanted something with a more interesting playstyle but seeing all these threads makes me glad I didn't. They badly need some changes, and yet despite so many of the other threads on the PTR Class Feedback receiving blue posts, the MW ones go completely ignored. rip mistwalk.

[Deleted]

5% mana regen buff, only in pvp.........I actually think that a den is sat there thinking of ways to troll every one mw monk, and laugh.

[Nyel]

I'm still rooting for 7.2.5. 7.2 doesn't have any significant class changes or balance things but I really, really, really hope Blizzard is acknowledging the problems MWs have in 7.2.5 right before Tomb of Sargeras is implemented. And I am not talking about a flat mana reduction cost or raw output increase, I am talking about something meaningful (new talents, Statue as a talent is laughable etc.).

[Avada Kedavra]

UPDATE: 4/14/17
Heres the update one month later. This is a couple resets into the 7.2 release and these are only taking into count the logs from 7.2 release and after. Not much has changed, though Im not sure the new talents/traits are supposed to fix MW so we have a few more months of no improvements or changes. Time to hurry up and wait for the fixes.

MW log total: 10/1000 logs. Thats 1%. If you were wondering which class owns EVERY log is Druids. DRUIDS DRUIDS EVERYWHERE.

Skorpyron: 2/100
Chronomatic Anomaly: 0/100
Trilliax: 2/100
Spellblade Aluriel: 0/100
Tichondrius: 0/100
Star Augur Etraeus: 1/100
Krosus: 0/100
High Botanist Tel'arn: 1/100
Grand Magistrix Elisande: 2/100
Gul'dan: 2/100

also updated the OP

[Tanthoris]

I really don't see how blizzards EF changes will help at all... MW's main issue is that they have little to no utility as a healer and their heals are in general not as impressive as other healers.

I'm wanting to bring my monk out of retirement, but it doesn't seem like blizz even knows just what direction blizz wants to take them in as a healer

[xGLxAnubis]

MW is insanely strong as a single target tank healer, don't compare them to druids and don't expect to be put out huge throughput numbers. ST healers always have lower meter numbers but provide a vital role to your healing core: Keeping your tanks alive through anything. Druids can't do that.

[Avada Kedavra]

MW is insanely strong as a single target tank healer, don't compare them to druids and don't expect to be put out huge throughput numbers. ST healers always have lower meter numbers but provide a vital role to your healing core: Keeping your tanks alive through anything. Druids can't do that.

no one says "who is a great single target tank healer?" and says MW. Can we tank heal? sure...we *can* tank heal but why would you bring a MW over a Hpaly or resto sham?

[Nyel]

MW is insanely strong as a single target tank healer, don't compare them to druids and don't expect to be put out huge throughput numbers. ST healers always have lower meter numbers but provide a vital role to your healing core: Keeping your tanks alive through anything. Druids can't do that.

Great ST healer? In what way? Because of EnM and SoM? A Paladin does twice the healing for half the mana ST wise.

[xGLxAnubis]

Great ST healer? In what way? Because of EnM and SoM? A Paladin does twice the healing for half the mana ST wise.

I'm the MT healer in my guild (after our paladin quit, we needed one) and I'm consistently ending fights with 50% or more mana and within 10% healing of our druid and shaman. Our old Paladin did less healing than I do (Because I also cleave heal and AoE burst) and was consistently OOM by the end of the fight. If/when I PUG, I notice the same thing with other paladins. Effuse is also way cheaper than Flash of Light and hits way harder with EnM up. Including Mastery and EnM, my effuse heals for 640k non-crit. Paladins Flash Hits for ~550k non-crit at my gear level (~900)? Paladin Flash is expensive, Effuse is not.

Stack Crit/Mastery instead of Vers, and your ST heals will easily rival a Paladins and you'll have way better mana efficiency AND offer the ability to raid heal better as well when required. The new traits make use even better tank healers, but everyone just kind of ignores them. 15s to fully charge Sheilun's gift instead of 2 minutes and we cleave heal for the same amount when we do it? Yes please.

If you stop spamming Essence Font you'll find we have a very strong package to do other things.

[Avada Kedavra]

I'm the MT healer in my guild (after our paladin quit, we needed one) and I'm consistently ending fights with 50% or more mana and within 10% healing of our druid and shaman. Our old Paladin did less healing than I do (Because I also cleave heal and AoE burst) and was consistently OOM by the end of the fight. If/when I PUG, I notice the same thing with other paladins. Effuse is also way cheaper than Flash of Light and hits way harder with EnM up. Including Mastery and EnM, my effuse heals for 640k non-crit. Paladins Flash Hits for ~550k non-crit at my gear level (~900)? Paladin Flash is expensive, Effuse is not.

Stack Crit/Mastery instead of Vers, and your ST heals will easily rival a Paladins and you'll have way better mana efficiency AND offer the ability to raid heal better as well when required. The new traits make use even better tank healers, but everyone just kind of ignores them. 15s to fully charge Sheilun's gift instead of 2 minutes and we cleave heal for the same amount when we do it? Yes please.

If you stop spamming Essence Font you'll find we have a very strong package to do other things.

we are referring to mythic raiding. none of what you said applys to mythic raiding. Sure you can walk into a heroic encounter and spam what ever you want and it wont matter. If you want to effuse/SG spam the entire fight, you prob wont wipe (assuming other healers are there to carry you with that playstyle.)

MW is fine in every other difficulty minus Mythic which is what this thread specifically refers to. I would encourage you to name ANY mythic NH fight where you can get away with casting effuse/EnvM and not relying on EF spam. If you have logs, that would be great too.