1. #8721
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post
    I am using Shield Charge, so I could stick Fortify on that. So you think I should drop Fort and sub in WEDamage instead?
    If you think Shield Charging every 6 sec in combat won't be too much of a hassle, then yeah, I think it would be worth it to make your Static Strike hit that much harder. Or if you keep Fortify, I'd at least swap Controlled Destruction to WED first.

    But the former's just my personal opinion and I'm not actually sure what the general consensus is on using Fortify. Maybe Fortify on the main attack is common/standard, but it sounds inefficient to me..
    Most of my melee characters usually use Frenzy for Fortify so while I'm using a second attack to keep up Fortify I'm also maintaining an effective 12% IAS and 12% more damage buff. No idea if that's ideal either but it's an option..

  2. #8722
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaiandra View Post
    If you think Shield Charging every 6 sec in combat won't be too much of a hassle, then yeah, I think it would be worth it to make your Static Strike hit that much harder. Or if you keep Fortify, I'd at least swap Controlled Destruction to WED first.

    But the former's just my personal opinion and I'm not actually sure what the general consensus is on using Fortify. Maybe Fortify on the main attack is common/standard, but it sounds inefficient to me..
    Most of my melee characters usually use Frenzy for Fortify so while I'm using a second attack to keep up Fortify I'm also maintaining an effective 12% IAS and 12% more damage buff. No idea if that's ideal either but it's an option..
    Using fortify on your movement skill is the standard really. I also use shield charge/faster attacks/fortify.

    It's not really worth it on main skill because as you said - it doesn't provide damage really.

    And yeah your idea with frenzy is basically what you do with the inquisitor ascendancy where you get ias/cast speed for attacking/casting. So shield charge buffs my spark with 30% cast speed and my spark buffs my shield charge with 30% attack speed.
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  3. #8723
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    As for the VS/DD char - DD is actually a strange skill apparently because it's fire damage and it's not a spell. So excluding area/elemental/fire modifiers it's not affacted by spell damage nodes.

    The idea was to use it in conjunction with this http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/The_Consuming_Dark and make it an autocast on crit or melee kill - while focusing on chaos/over time damage.

    I have also the VS unique jewel and adding a melee splash should basically spread poison everywhere - which is the point of the whole build. DD would just be more poison procced around.
    I had considered the DOT route (perhaps with Consuming Dark but aiming for Crit and Ignite chance might've also worked), but even so, +DOT passives would only be affecting a portion of your damage and not the main initial hits. And when you're using skills whose DOTs are based on the initial hit, boosting the initial hit would be much better.

    Viper Strike is based on your weapon/Attack damage, so using the Consuming Dark's low weapon damage to increase DD's potential might be taking away a lot from your VS potential.

    I don't really want to be a naysayer and I know that experimenting with unique builds is a very large part of PoE's appeal, but I am having trouble imagining those two skills synergizing.
    Last edited by Shaiandra; 2017-03-13 at 03:08 PM.

  4. #8724
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaiandra View Post
    I had considered the DOT route (perhaps with Consuming Dark but aiming for Crit and Ignite chance might've also worked), but even so, +DOT passives would only be affecting a portion of your damage and not the main initial hits. And when you're using skills whose DOTs are based on the initial hit, boosting the initial hit would be much better.

    Viper Strike is based on your weapon/Attack damage, so using the Consuming Dark's low weapon damage to increase DD's potential might be taking away a lot from your VS potential.

    I don't really want to be a naysayer and I know that experimenting with unique builds is a very large part of PoE's appeal, but I am having trouble imagining those two skills synergizing.
    Ok, well, i still can work my way on a standard VS build and use DD just as an additional thing to blow up stuff. Until i find a better setup

    I posted a tree above, it's again a skeleton but i can change it easily to go for a pure phys/chaos build. Dunno if CI works with Phase Acrobatics - i have the points to get both and also reach the ES nodes.
    Last edited by Coldkil; 2017-03-13 at 03:22 PM.
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  5. #8725
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Ok, well, i still can work my way on a standard VS build and use DD just as an additional thing to blow up stuff. Until i find a better setup

    I posted a tree above, it's again a skeleton but i can change it easily to go for a pure phys/chaos build. Dunno if CI works with Phase Acrobatics - i have the points to get both and also reach the ES nodes.
    The tree seems to be a fine start. You'll likely need to prioritize more ES going forward (and always get Infused Shield if going CI). Could possibly grab the From the Shadows dagger cluster, it's quite powerful being only 4 points away. Life Drinker might be worth it for the life leech alone, even though the Life doesn't really help given CI.

    You don't want to combine CI and Phase Acrobatics since Acrobatics (the prereq to Phase Acro) halves your Energy Shield.
    Last edited by Shaiandra; 2017-03-13 at 03:33 PM.

  6. #8726
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaiandra View Post

    You don't want to combine CI and Phase Acrobatics since Acrobatics (the prereq to Phase Acro) halves your Energy Shield.
    Ok, so that's a no-no.

    Improved and expanded tree LINK
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  7. #8727
    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    That's not correct, Fortify gives +phys damage, and it's not a small amount either. (+44% at level 20).

    Using fortify on movement skills is typically done by casters.
    It's 44% increased damage which is really not that good when compared to the amount of more% damage modifiers you can run. I can see you run fortify on a 6 link as a melee out of a "easier to play" PoV but I doubt it would be the best when it comes to actual damage.

    Every melee i ever played usually had it linked to leap slam.

    - - - Updated - - -
    @Coldkil

    If you make builds you should use poeplanner.com

    Makes it easier for us to check the stats your build has (and also for yourself) - but I've imported your build and optimized it a "little" for you

    http://poeplanner.com/AAYAANcWAABpBX...BZ8ISiAAAAAAA=

    Shaiandra might spot a few changes still too, but this has a lot better stats for the same points.

    I removed soul siphon but if mana is an issue you should spend 2 points and pick up Mind Drinker instead (or Deep Thoughts)
    Last edited by falagar112; 2017-03-13 at 05:43 PM.
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  8. #8728
    Titan Gallahadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by falagar112 View Post
    It's 44% increased damage which is really not that good when compared to the amount of more% damage modifiers you can run. I can see you run fortify on a 6 link as a melee out of a "easier to play" PoV but I doubt it would be the best when it comes to actual damage.

    Every melee i ever played usually had it linked to leap slam.
    Yeah I think I'll shift Fortify off my Static Strike, once I get something like Controlled Destruction, or Multistrike. Also, getting a bit sick of Shield Charge getting stuck on literally everything, might swap it out for Leap Slam, then Fortify that. Seems a fairly standard melee set up.
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  9. #8729
    @falagar112 thanks, will use that next time gives lots of info though im little lost with the amount of them - if i got it correctly you removed some minor nodes and unnecessary fluff to reach important ones with less points. Are defenses and ES high enough now to run CI?

    EDIT: i followed also your tip woth CoH+orb of STorms and it does wonders. It's not a problem of it spawning near me because i will be in melee and i use Shield Charge often to position me.
    Last edited by Coldkil; 2017-03-14 at 08:38 AM.
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  10. #8730
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    @falagar112 thanks, will use that next time gives lots of info though im little lost with the amount of them - if i got it correctly you removed some minor nodes and unnecessary fluff to reach important ones with less points. Are defenses and ES high enough now to run CI?

    EDIT: i followed also your tip woth CoH+orb of STorms and it does wonders. It's not a problem of it spawning near me because i will be in melee and i use Shield Charge often to position me.
    Your old link had 160% es and ~50% from int, mine has 190% es and 56% from int, it's better on the ES department yes

    And yes I did remove some fluff and just went for the important keystones, and adjusted your travel path a little (like going through the life/es% wheel, sure life isn't doing much but your other route was taking 10 int and 20 dex instead, which does nothing at all)

    But yes that should have plenty of ES, and it's close to some important nodes (crit multi, double curse, life/mana leech, power charges and so on) that you can branch into what you specifically want to add afterwards
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  11. #8731
    Quote Originally Posted by falagar112 View Post
    Your old link had 160% es and ~50% from int, mine has 190% es and 56% from int, it's better on the ES department yes

    And yes I did remove some fluff and just went for the important keystones, and adjusted your travel path a little (like going through the life/es% wheel, sure life isn't doing much but your other route was taking 10 int and 20 dex instead, which does nothing at all)

    But yes that should have plenty of ES, and it's close to some important nodes (crit multi, double curse, life/mana leech, power charges and so on) that you can branch into what you specifically want to add afterwards
    Ok, that's clear now. Since Detonate Dead doesn't add any synergy and i want to use Viper Strike as main attack, any suggested support setups? Life Leech should be a no-brainer, and Void Manipulation looks good too. I don't know if there's some nice spell to put with a Cast on Crit/Melee Kill.
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  12. #8732
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Ok, that's clear now. Since Detonate Dead doesn't add any synergy and i want to use Viper Strike as main attack, any suggested support setups? Life Leech should be a no-brainer, and Void Manipulation looks good too. I don't know if there's some nice spell to put with a Cast on Crit/Melee Kill.
    For pure viper strike you want to first buff the physical damage (applies before conversion) and then the chaos damage secondary.

    So ideal setup would be:
    Viper Strike + Melee Physical Damage + Melee Splash + Multistrike for 4 link. For 5 link add Added Chaos Damage (this is a drop only gem but not super rare) and for a 6 link add Void Manipulation or Increased Area if you feel your area isn't big enough for aoe clearing (but you can also take the area nodes at witch you are right next to them)

    If you want to combine the idea of detonate dead and viper strike in a different way - you can always have a look at the occultist (witch) ascendancy, it has in build on kill detonate dead that is quite amazing because it does chaos damage so it scales with your build. But for viper strike specifically, I think going crit/assassin is still the better choice.

    I wouldn't use life leech, you can pick up the leech passive blood drinker instead and/or use the double curse with warlords mark/assassins mark to get all the life and mana leech you'd ever need. Life leech gem is more a caster thing as they cannot use "physical dmg leech" passives.

    edit:
    you can swap melee splash with melee damage on full life for boss fights, of course.

    http://poeplanner.com/AAYAAOcWAABxBX...MQWfCEogAAAAAA

    Use that for pure viper strike - it has taken the power charges and double curse. Take skillpoint-skillpoint-power charge from bandits.
    Last edited by falagar112; 2017-03-14 at 12:36 PM.
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  13. #8733
    Quote Originally Posted by falagar112 View Post
    For pure viper strike you want to first buff the physical damage (applies before conversion) and then the chaos damage secondary.

    So ideal setup would be:
    Viper Strike + Melee Physical Damage + Melee Splash + Multistrike for 4 link. For 5 link add Added Chaos Damage (this is a drop only gem but not super rare) and for a 6 link add Void Manipulation or Increased Area if you feel your area isn't big enough for aoe clearing (but you can also take the area nodes at witch you are right next to them)

    If you want to combine the idea of detonate dead and viper strike in a different way - you can always have a look at the occultist (witch) ascendancy, it has in build on kill detonate dead that is quite amazing because it does chaos damage so it scales with your build. But for viper strike specifically, I think going crit/assassin is still the better choice.

    I wouldn't use life leech, you can pick up the leech passive blood drinker instead and use the double curse with warlords mark/assassins mark to get all the life and mana leech you'd ever need. Life leech gem is more a caster thing as they cannot use "physical dmg leech" passives.

    edit:
    you can swap melee splash with melee damage on full life for boss fights, of course.
    Ok, that sounds good. I wanted to see if i can squeeze in ED/Corruption but the life return won't be useful and damage should be enough with VS. Side note - i have the unique jewel for VS already, that's the reason behind this char.

    EDIT: i suppose that i will go for as much ES on armor as possible, or mixed evasion/ES gear is better?
    Last edited by Coldkil; 2017-03-14 at 12:47 PM.
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  14. #8734
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Ok, that sounds good. I wanted to see if i can squeeze in ED/Corruption but the life return won't be useful and damage should be enough with VS. Side note - i have the unique jewel for VS already, that's the reason behind this char.

    EDIT: i suppose that i will go for as much ES on armor as possible, or mixed evasion/ES gear is better?
    Whatever has the most ES which is dictated by drops really!
    A good evasion/es chest can easily roll more flat ES value as a pure ES chest that rolled average.

    Just go with "if it has more ES and/or better resists, use it", use the best physical damage+base crit dagger you can find, a shield with high ES, and a way to get stun immunity. (This is important, you have 1 life and stuns are based on life total, without a stun immunity you will get stunlocked by everything and die some messy deaths)

    There are quite a few common uniques and some more rares ones to get this.
    http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Valyrium
    http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Eye_of_Chayula

    Like these are fairly common.
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  15. #8735
    Just a couple small suggestions:
    For a CI build, Melee Damage on Full Life should be your first support gem (given that you're always at 1/1 life). It has the same power as Melee Physical Damage, but has a lower mana cost multiplier.
    I would probably prioritize Void Manipulation above Added Chaos; if I'm not mistaken, this support gem will double-dip on your poison. Or did they fix that already?
    If you're willing to spend one more point in offensive passives, the Atrophy cluster might be just a tad more desirable than the Method to the Madness one. (Atrophy is right of CI, Method to the Madness is by Vaal Pact.)
    Right now Falagar's build has 1 point in Elemental Damage and Energy Shield at the start of the Shadow tree's upper path. I'm not sure if that's intentional or an accidental click, but if you're willing to spend 1 point for 12 ES, you're better off taking the one at the Witch's starting point which gives 14 ES instead. =p

    And just to add to Falagar's notes about stuns, Freeze and Shock durations are also dependent on the target's maximum Life. You'll want to be sure to have Heat and Grounding flasks handy, or hope to get uniques with such status resistances.

  16. #8736
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaiandra View Post
    And just to add to Falagar's notes about stuns, Freeze and Shock durations are also dependent on the target's maximum Life. You'll want to be sure to have Heat and Grounding flasks handy, or hope to get uniques with such status resistances.
    Ok, i'm checking the stuns thing and see what i can do to be stun immune. As for Status ailments, the Crystal Skin node shopuld be pretty good to have for that, investment is quite high but covers a big hole in the build.

    EDIT: checked the wiki, the stun calculations apparently count the amount of life you have before CI, but still it will be a low amount hence not worth to count on - though if you have ES (any amount) you have a flat 50% chance of ignoring stuns.
    Last edited by Coldkil; 2017-03-14 at 03:09 PM.
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  17. #8737
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Ok, i'm checking the stuns thing and see what i can do to be stun immune. As for Status ailments, the Crystal Skin node shopuld be pretty good to have for that, investment is quite high but covers a big hole in the build.

    EDIT: checked the wiki, the stun calculations apparently count the amount of life you have before CI, but still it will be a low amount hence not worth to count on - though if you have ES (any amount) you have a flat 50% chance of ignoring stuns.
    Having played CI without stun protection before I got my shavs/presence - I must have died at least 5 times per level just because stuns... and then I was playing a ranged caster, let alone melee

    Going without stun protection is, unfortunately, suicide!

    I wouldn't go out of the way to pick up Crystal Skin node - as Shaiandra mentioned just use a freeze remove flask etc. You are a crit build so if you roll the 20% chance on charge on crit flasks you should have a nice reliable way of having those flasks up pretty much permanently.
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  18. #8738
    Quote Originally Posted by falagar112 View Post
    Having played CI without stun protection before I got my shavs/presence - I must have died at least 5 times per level just because stuns... and then I was playing a ranged caster, let alone melee

    Going without stun protection is, unfortunately, suicide!

    I wouldn't go out of the way to pick up Crystal Skin node - as Shaiandra mentioned just use a freeze remove flask etc. You are a crit build so if you roll the 20% chance on charge on crit flasks you should have a nice reliable way of having those flasks up pretty much permanently.
    Ok, that's clear. Though it looks bad to play a Shadow with a shield - i suppose i could simply ignore CI/Ghost reaver and go for a standard life/criut build which i'm more comfortable with. Will mess up a little with the tree.
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  19. #8739
    Titan Gallahadd's Avatar
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    Well... Four attempts at Normal labs. Four times I've laughed my way through the bosses without a care in the world.

    Four times I've died due to doing stupid shit like turning around to change the channel, while standing on a trap.

    Why am I so bad ?
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  20. #8740
    Been having a ton of fun as a Crit Staff Ice Crash Berserker Marauder.

    Frost damage really is the most satisfying element to kill enemies with. The sounds of glass breaking constantly.
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