t 20

[magiee]

are t 20 sets on ptr yet to test em??

[Teri]

are t 20 sets on ptr yet to test em??

The models are on PTR long time, items are in the dungeon journal and transmog/set lists. PTR is almost done, raid won't release with 7.2.

As for the actual sets/bonusses being available, I think they might not be available until 7.2.5, which looks to be a tuning patch most of all.

Season 3 pvp will use the Red (Horde) and Blue ( Alliance ) variants.

As for the other colors.
Raid finder : Purple
Normal : Yellow
Heroic : Green
Mythic : Tier 6 color scheme with bigger shoulders.

[magiee]

btw what was the t 20 2 and 4 set cant seem to find it or pst a link so i can view it

[cryfearlol]

ret
2 - Divine Hammer Blade of Justice generates 1 additional Holy Power.
4 - Judgment also increases the damage of Divine Hammer / Blade of Justice.

holy
2 - Light of Dawn has up to 40% reduced cooldown based on the current health of your targets. More reduced cooldown when it heals lower health targets.
4 - Light of Dawn grants you Dawn's Light, increasing the healing of your next spell by 25%.

protection
2 - Judgment has a 25% chance to reset the cooldown of Avenger's Shield.
4 - Enemies hit by Avenger's Shield deal 5% reduced damage to you for 5 sec.

[Reith]

ret
2 - Divine Hammer Blade of Justice generates 1 additional Holy Power.
4 - Judgment also increases the damage of Divine Hammer / Blade of Justice.

I could see the Blade of Wrath talent doing really well with T20 2P for single target and AOE, with judgment spreading being a thing. 4P could make mastery competitive in single target/aoe and haste to at least 25% even more important to keep Judgment up. Interesting, for sure.

[Wutangrza]

I could see the Blade of Wrath talent doing really well with T20 2P for single target and AOE, with judgment spreading being a thing. 4P could make mastery competitive in single target/aoe and haste to at least 25% even more important to keep Judgment up. Interesting, for sure.

It definitely buffs mastery, though I doubt it will be better than the other secondaries (just not nearly useless like it is now), which is a good thing. As far as haste stacking, even with 30% haste, J has a 9.23 second cooldown, compared to the 9.73 second cooldown at 23% haste, I doubt ret is going to start stacking haste.

But, you may have a point, because once we lose our 4 set T19, TFoJ starts to become less attractive, and if Zeal becomes more favorable, so too does haste to prevent empty globals. The weird thing is that on most fights where we'd like to use Zeal, we also want to use DH, but the two of them together lead to tons of empty globals. For a smooth rotation, you almost have to have either TFoJ or BoW.

Anyway, 7.2 should be interesting for sure, and it'll be nice to not immediately never consider using a piece of gear outside of tier that has mastery on it again.

[stolker]

I'll be really glad to get rid of t19 4p. it plays like shit imo.

[Goldenboy1]

I could see the Blade of Wrath talent doing really well with T20 2P for single target and AOE, with judgment spreading being a thing. 4P could make mastery competitive in single target/aoe and haste to at least 25% even more important to keep Judgment up. Interesting, for sure.

Divine Hammers will only become stronger. Dealing holy damage means the % increase from Judgment on four set will yield more damage than using the physical Blade of Wrath. Especially since our Holy Power generation is "strong" enough at this point that we will sit on Blade of Wrath procs from time to time, this holds true even more so due to the tier's 2 set. Also, due to its aoe nature and our Judge Unworthy trait Divine Hammers, which deals aoe damage, will double dip from the tier 4 in aoe situations and work better for spreading the Judgment debuff. I do not see Blade of Wrath competing with this talent in the future even in pure single target.

[Reith]

Divine Hammers will only become stronger. Dealing holy damage means the % increase from Judgment on four set will yield more damage than using the physical Blade of Wrath. Especially since our Holy Power generation is "strong" enough at this point that we will sit on Blade of Wrath procs from time to time, this holds true even more so due to the tier's 2 set.

That's assuming you're taking Fires of Justice, which loses value when you replace T19 4P with T20 4P. I did say Divine Hammer will probably win out overall in AOE, but it won't beat the versatility of Blade of Wrath due to the fact that judgment will be spreading and Blade of Wrath means more Divine Storms (powered by mastery unlike now) as well as more Templar's Verdicts for boss damage and specific adds that need to die asap. There'll be some fights that Divine Hammer will be better for, but others which Blade of Wrath will be better for. Blade of Virtue, however..

Also, due to its aoe nature and our Judge Unworthy trait Divine Hammers, which deals aoe damage, will double dip from the tier 4 in aoe situations and work better for spreading the Judgment debuff. I do not see Blade of Wrath competing with this talent in the future even in pure single target.

Wow, that is super wrong. Divine Hammer doesn't lead to more Templar's Verdicts. Even right now Blade of Wrath beats Divine Hammer in single target, so it's baffling to me how you could be that wrong.

[Goldenboy1]

That's assuming you're taking Fires of Justice, which loses value when you replace T19 4P with T20 4P. I did say Divine Hammer will probably win out overall in AOE, but it won't beat the versatility of Blade of Wrath due to the fact that judgment will be spreading and Blade of Wrath means more Divine Storms (powered by mastery unlike now) as well as more Templar's Verdicts for boss damage and specific adds that need to die asap. There'll be some fights that Divine Hammer will be better for, but others which Blade of Wrath will be better for. Blade of Virtue, however..


Wow, that is super wrong. Divine Hammer doesn't lead to more Templar's Verdicts. Even right now Blade of Wrath beats Divine Hammer in single target, so it's baffling to me how you could be that wrong.

Tier 19 is a mix mash for the Zeal V Fires. 2 set increased the value of Fires while 4 set increased Zeal's value more so than Fires because of the possibility for holy power. This statement "but it won't beat the versatility of Blade of Wrath due to the fact that judgment will be spreading and Blade of Wrath means more Divine Storms" neglects the fact that Divine Hammers deals damage over the course of 9 or so seconds. Each time it hits, Judgment can spread making it more valuable than an extra Divine Storm here and there. All of this is assuming you are not sitting on the Blade of Wrath proc to avoid overcapping Holy Power. I agree that Blade of Wrath could be better if it procs at the right time as you try to kill priority mobs.

Divine Hammer does not lead to more Templar Verdicts and I never claimed it did. Blade of Wrath is not beating Divine Hammers in single target currently due to our means of Holy Power generation in out tier set as well as the fact that it is dealing holy damage.

[Reith]

Tier 19 is a mix mash for the Zeal V Fires. 2 set increased the value of Fires while 4 set increased Zeal's value more so than Fires because of the possibility for holy power.

T19 favors Fires of Justice in general because you're using Crusader Strike more often. It's a good combination for when you're using Divine Hammer as long as you're only using HP generators at 3 Holy Power max. T19 doesn't really favor Zeal at all unless you're using Blade of Wrath to help with some of the downtime, and Blade of Wrath's only real use right now is single target, unfortunately.

This statement "but it won't beat the versatility of Blade of Wrath due to the fact that judgment will be spreading and Blade of Wrath means more Divine Storms" neglects the fact that Divine Hammers deals damage over the course of 9 or so seconds. Each time it hits, Judgment can spread making it more valuable than an extra Divine Storm here and there.

Yeah it's true Divine Hammer will probably spread judgment a bit better, but Zeal or Greater Judgment are actual considerations for lower-count AOE where boss damage is much more important than add damage. Greater Judgment doesn't seem like a good choice to me, though, unless you're getting exactly 3 extra mobs at regular intervals.

All of this is assuming you are not sitting on the Blade of Wrath proc to avoid overcapping Holy Power. I agree that Blade of Wrath could be better if it procs at the right time as you try to kill priority mobs.

Well it might actually be worth it to use Blade of Wrath at 3 Holy Power if you're getting 2 out of it anyway. I'd probably be safe and use a CS/Zeal though, myself.

Divine Hammer does not lead to more Templar Verdicts and I never claimed it did. Blade of Wrath is not beating Divine Hammers in single target currently due to our means of Holy Power generation in out tier set as well as the fact that it is dealing holy damage.

I never said you claimed that, but it is true that you will get more single target damage from Blade of Wrath with T20. If Blade of Justice generates 3HP, Blade of Wrath gets the biggest boost from T20 2P because you'll be generating even more Holy Power with it which gets you more Templar's Verdicts out of it than you would with Divine Hammer, though I did test both in raw damage until the crit level averaged out (20 minutes each) and they're pretty close in raw dps, but the procs from Blade of Wrath mean more Templar's Verdicts even right now. That deficit will only grow with T20 2P, which is why I think it'll be ideal for boss damage and priority mobs.

TL;DR: It'll depend entirely on the encounters, which we don't really have a choice right now, being basically pigeonholed into Fires of Justice, Divine Hammer and Crusade. If Divine Purpose was 25% it could come close to being competitive.. and Blade of Virtue needs some work for sure; Greater Judgment could use a change because it seems super niche and we won't likely see an ideal encounter for it.

[Goldenboy1]

T19 favors Fires of Justice in general because you're using Crusader Strike more often. It's a good combination for when you're using Divine Hammer as long as you're only using HP generators at 3 Holy Power max. T19 doesn't really favor Zeal at all unless you're using Blade of Wrath to help with some of the downtime, and Blade of Wrath's only real use right now is single target, unfortunately.

The 4 set provides some additional generation so Zeal had a little boost to that compared to Fires. It made Zeal a marginally better option since it was more well rounded but personally I never changed from Fires but, it might be due to specific Haste levels and of course player style. Zeal is also weaker because of the fight mechanics, the cleave range is just too small. Also Zeal falls off at single target and mass aoe encounters which gimped its usefulness in Nighthold encounters.

Yeah it's true Divine Hammer will probably spread judgment a bit better, but Zeal or Greater Judgment are actual considerations for lower-count AOE where boss damage is much more important than add damage. Greater Judgment doesn't seem like a good choice to me, though, unless you're getting exactly 3 extra mobs at regular intervals.

I think its weird that Judge Unworthy kind of makes Greater Judgment a dead talent in some regards since it also focuses on effecting more targets with the Judgment debuff. Zeal could totally pull ahead on encounters where add damage matters because of its cleave damage making Judgment spread.

Well it might actually be worth it to use Blade of Wrath at 3 Holy Power if you're getting 2 out of it anyway. I'd probably be safe and use a CS/Zeal though, myself.

I find the 2 set bonus to be annoying more than anything. Sometimes there are moments I wait a second to make sure I can use several spenders during Judgment, I also have the cape, so sitting at 3 hp while BoW/DH is off cooldown will infuriate me. Its definitely a good bonus but for cape users it will pose a slight annoyance.

I never said you claimed that, but it is true that you will get more single target damage from Blade of Wrath with T20. If Blade of Justice generates 3HP, Blade of Wrath gets the biggest boost from T20 2P because you'll be generating even more Holy Power with it which gets you more Templar's Verdicts out of it than you would with Divine Hammer, though I did test both in raw damage until the crit level averaged out (20 minutes each) and they're pretty close in raw dps, but the procs from Blade of Wrath mean more Templar's Verdicts even right now. That deficit will only grow with T20 2P, which is why I think it'll be ideal for boss damage and priority mobs.

My apologizes It seemed as though you inferred that in your previous comment. With tier 20 yes Blade of Justice will give 3 hp and has a chance to reset but if it resets at 3/4 Holy Power then you will sit on the proc to avoid over capping. While sitting on it, the value of the proc drops over time. I am not disagreeing that it can lead to more holy power. I am arguing that it isnt as useful in giving holy power as it could be. Concerning the raw damage difference, what is your ilv equipped and artifact trait level? The difference in gear and paragon points might make a larger gap; I am asking because I see a huge difference between the raw damage on my character. And again I think during the encounter the deficit will not grow because the proc becomes less useful the longer you wait to use Blade of Justice which will be often because we are now only efficiently casting at 1/2 holy power.

TL;DR: It'll depend entirely on the encounters, which we don't really have a choice right now, being basically pigeonholed into Fires of Justice, Divine Hammer and Crusade. If Divine Purpose was 25% it could come close to being competitive.. and Blade of Virtue needs some work for sure; Greater Judgment could use a change because it seems super niche and we won't likely see an ideal encounter for it.

I totally agree with you, Divine Purpose was changed from a non-final tier choice to a final tier choice with no change whatsoever. Blade of Virtue really needs some loving and same thing with Greater Judgment since its only good at exactly 4 targets no more no less.

[Wutangrza]

Wasting one holy power is much better than sitting and doing nothing.

[Goldenboy1]

Wasting one holy power is much better than sitting and doing nothing.

Not necessarily. Especially if youre using the cape there are times you want to wait in order to complete a 4 or so string of Holy Power Spenders.

Shitty Blade of Justice damage VS 15% Empowered Spenders

[magiee]

possible 2set t 19 plus t 20 set 4 piece

[Goldenboy1]

possible 2set t 19 plus t 20 set 4 piece

Chains with Liadrins/Sephuz with 2 set and 4 set might be very strong.

[Eon Drache]

Tier 19 is a mix mash for the Zeal V Fires. 2 set increased the value of Fires while 4 set increased Zeal's value more so than Fires because of the possibility for holy power. This statement "but it won't beat the versatility of Blade of Wrath due to the fact that judgment will be spreading and Blade of Wrath means more Divine Storms" neglects the fact that Divine Hammers deals damage over the course of 9 or so seconds. Each time it hits, Judgment can spread making it more valuable than an extra Divine Storm here and there. All of this is assuming you are not sitting on the Blade of Wrath proc to avoid overcapping Holy Power. I agree that Blade of Wrath could be better if it procs at the right time as you try to kill priority mobs.

Divine Hammer does not lead to more Templar Verdicts and I never claimed it did. Blade of Wrath is not beating Divine Hammers in single target currently due to our means of Holy Power generation in out tier set as well as the fact that it is dealing holy damage.

I'm confused. Blade of Wrath + Zeal beats out any combination of talents + Divine Hammer for me on single target.

[Goldenboy1]

I'm confused. Blade of Wrath + Zeal beats out any combination of talents + Divine Hammer for me on single target.

Do you have tier 19 sets. Also, a difference in stat weights, ilvs, and traits will effect the difference between our sims.

[Eon Drache]

Do you have tier 19 sets. Also, a difference in stat weights, ilvs, and traits will effect the difference between our sims.

yes I do. Zeal + Blade of Wrath has been my best single target setup since forever. I was just arguing the fact that Divine Hammer does not always beat Blade in single target. I even have Liadrin's ring and blade is 7k dps higher for me.

[Goldenboy1]

yes I do. Zeal + Blade of Wrath has been my best single target setup since forever. I was just arguing the fact that Divine Hammer does not always beat Blade in single target. I even have Liadrin's ring and blade is 7k dps higher for me.

Eh, all i can say is different stat weights and legends. Zeal beat Fires for me one time in Legion history, and then fell down the hole when I replaced a ring. It's hard with alot of the talents now in saying which is better because of the stats no longer being static. *shrug*