Did Blizzard Fail with Legion?

[thilicen]

Depends on wether or not you actually grasp the concept of failure.

[Deleted]

Technically the grind shouldn't mean anything for casual players if they're content with being casual.

Well the problem is that Legion even divides casuals into many groups not really fitting each other. Someone who once did daily quests, some crafting/gathering and 1-2 dungeons per week could easily raid normal modes into heroic modes. He had to get ready to raid via dungeon gear/rep gear and farming some justice/valor till he quickly reached the point where he got absolutely ready as in "only world epics for much gold could boost me". LFR was something that added another step-up with DS but thanks to the complete nerf of LFR items during WoD it was kinda optional or not available due to slow opening of LFR-wings.

This point always existed till WoD and the warforge/challenge mode RNG arrived. WoD "already" changed the whole thing, daily quests and apexis gear was useless and therefor hoping to get warforged RNG items was the best way to gear up for highmaul till LFR arrived but it wasn't really outstanding. In Legion though they have washed everything that once "geared you up" away and replaced it with a complete and almost unlimited RNG grind that is directly connected to time spend ingame doing "stuff" preferably mythic+ dungeons for the highest gain/time. There is no "soft"-limit to ilvl, no limit to AP or legendaries and the guy I described previously will simply not do enough to get his legendaries, to get even close in itemlevel and AP to people who play like 2-3 dungeons every single day + doing all what the more casual guy does. This opens a large powergap that could very well be worth an entire tier and not one raidboss is even dead yet.

So the first raid will already slap the more casual dude in his face but that's not all. While previously raiding was enough to get all you need (there was a time when you even got your valor cap full with 1 raid clear) to keep up the gap just gets bigger every week. And this will and does lead to breakups.

[Oneirophobia]

Rehashing as much content as possible

For example..? We haven't had one rehashed dungeon or raid or zone yet.

And don't say timewalking, that's left over from WoD and is practically irrelevant to the expansion itself.

[Super Kami Dende]

You might want to learn how math works. You have some clear ones like anger of the half giants for dps DH which is an instant and dramatic jump in damage just for getting one ring. That is probably the biggest change just for one item, but there are several that make a large change in damage and how your class plays. Blaming an item or any other scape goat for being beat by others is normally just nonsense whining, but in Legion there are plenty of valid points and cases to be made about certain legendary items or how some of them combo together.

I find people that think Legendaries are required to compete are mostly just bad players

[Queen of Hamsters]

They failed with WoD. Is Legion perfect? No, but trying to paint it as a total failure due to pet peeves (mostly from players that choose to play the game to extreme levels) and aspects that aren't well-received? Pffrt... Silly humans.

If Blizzard goes forward with WoW having the same quality and quantity, variety and pacing of content delivery, they'll have succeeded in more ways than ever before. I sure hope Legion won't be a prelude to another WoD-style expansion.

The only things I hope won't carry over into the next expansion;

Legendary system (could do with legendaries, but they should be like MoP if that's the case but maybe less liberal with who gets them and how).

RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG. Warforging is fine, but titanforging, extra stats and sockets being random as well? No thanks.

Other than that, I'm more than happy. I remember having far more pet peeves with other expansions.

[Deleted]

They failed with aspect they failed since Wrath - RETARDED ILVL SCALING. What the fuck is this, we started expansion with like 200k dps being decent and now eveyrhing below 800k is shit, people already easly pulling 1 mil single target. Non tanks already reaching 4m HP. We started exp with 800 ilvl and now it's already 925. Fuck this scaling, it ruins everything. Getting upgrade doesn't mean you need to feel powerful like a god, bring it back to TBC levels...

[Lethora]

One of the worst expansions. Pronbably the worst. I can tell you this though: I played since late vanilla and not even Cataclysm made me quit like Legion did.

Matter of taste. I consider Legion the best expansion (with Mists being close second), and Cataclysm made me quit the game for the first time. I also play since late vanilla (started shortly before Naxx was released).

[PenguinChan]

In terms of financial success, or overall? No, they hit it out of the park. But are there failures within the success? Plenty, especially when it comes to the gearing process. There are never ups without the downs, and while Legion has a lot of ups it still has plenty of downs with the new systems.

[Alvito]

I find people that think Legendaries are required to compete are mostly just bad players

So you don't understand math, you could have just said that, then again maybe you are saying your little mantra of the day.

[Onikaroshi]

They failed with aspect they failed since Wrath - RETARDED ILVL SCALING. What the fuck is this, we started expansion with like 200k dps being decent and now eveyrhing below 800k is shit, people already easly pulling 1 mil single target. Non tanks already reaching 4m HP. We started exp with 800 ilvl and now it's already 925. Fuck this scaling, it ruins everything. Getting upgrade doesn't mean you need to feel powerful like a god, bring it back to TBC levels...

emergard big nermbers, brain sterp werking...

Seriously, they never should have squished, the size of numbers doesn't matter, and at that point it was mostly due to, now fixed, technical issues. Ilvl scaling is fine.

[Not A Cat]

Wrong place to suggest blizzard has done anything wrong. There's literally more fanboys here than in the official forums.

I always find these comments ironic. When someone disagrees with you, you call them a fanboy. However, you're just on a different bandwagon, yet you think you hold some moral high ground. You're a "sheep" just as much as the fanboys are. Form your own opinions, get off the bandwagon.

OT: We have a thread about this multiple times a week. Why not contribute to those instead of making a new one. You're going to come to the same conclusion either way.

[Flurryfang]

Being able to come back from the devastating expansion of WoD and still being able to woo the people is a huge achievement. Legion have really been a huge succes and has given WoW a new chance to stay in the high sub numbers, that it wants to stay in. Is it perfect? No not really, but where WoD had alot of its potential wasted nearly from the very start, Legion still has the potential to become even better and reach new heights. The system/features, which is currently crippling the game, can easily be improved and turned into good features, but time will only tell if Blizzard will have the guts to see their wrongs in a sea of good.

[callipygoustp]

Did Blizzard Fail with Legion? Not that I've seen.

The only "real" issue that I have seen, subjective of course, is the issue of RNG and over powered legendaries. Granted it doesn't seem to have affected high end raiders so I tend to write this off as a standard "casual" type of complaint.

Honorable mention: rumor has it that participation in PVP arena and BGs has fallen off. "RUMOR" Granted, I've seen people bitch about PVP, including myself, ever since BC. Really don't know, or care to find out, how true this is. Only remarking on what has stuck with me when I view various WoW related forums.

[Deleted]

emergard big nermbers, brain sterp werking...

Seriously, they never should have squished, the size of numbers doesn't matter, and at that point it was mostly due to, now fixed, technical issues. Ilvl scaling is fine.

You are just flat out retarded if you think it's fine. The difference of power between 10 ilvl is insane. We scale too fast! Back in TBC going from SSC gear to Black Temple gear wasn't that significant which meant old content was still worth doing and people in lower gear had a chance to catchup.

Look at the fuckin progression you mong. Back in the day guilds spent weeks wiping on boss, perfecting the tactics. Now it's case of getting few extra warforged items and you steamroll thru content.

The whole problem with current WoW lies in fucked up math. But mongs like you who don't understand how scaling works obviously are oblivious.

[Sastank]

Yes. Legion is basically wod 2.0. The same garbage. Diablo team shouldnt have done this exp.

Lol. Joking or bait post? Can't tell.

[Phood]

You think this is a bad grind? Go play a Korean MMO and then let me know how you feel when/if you reach max lvl.

[Irian]

For their strong attempt to reinvigorate WoW I'd say they failed spectacularly. Legion's a good expansion massively held back by crippling flaws that ruin the entire experience. They held onto so many things that simply didn't work from WoD and bog the game down horribly.

Overall though, as an expansion? Nah. Numbers likely back that up. I feel like Legion's doing pretty alright when it comes to play retention and enjoyment.

[Onikaroshi]

You are just flat out retarded if you think it's fine. The difference of power between 10 ilvl is insane. We scale too fast! Back in TBC going from SSC gear to Black Temple gear wasn't that significant which meant old content was still worth doing and people in lower gear had a chance to catchup.

Look at the fuckin progression you mong. Back in the day guilds spent weeks wiping on boss, perfecting the tactics. Now it's case of getting few extra warforged items and you steamroll thru content.

The whole problem with current WoW lies in fucked up math. But mongs like you who don't understand how scaling works obviously are oblivious.

Nice nostalgia... those weeks had absolutely nothing to do with: bugged bosses, heavily overtuned encounters (like c'thun being mathematically impossible) and limited attempts.

And on top of that, none of those mechanics were even HARD, it was all numbers keeping people down, because that's all blizzard had at the time.

Why do you think the fights people hold so high and mighty are things like Heroic Rag and Mythic Archi? these things aren't numbers so much, but mechanics. No one sits there and says... yea Kil'jaeden was an AWESOME encounter.

No one, especially the top, wants to see bosses last weeks and weeks anymore, Archi and Gul'dan were about perfect.

[Wildpantz]

As a casual legion is the best game has ever been. You fully clear heroic content with pugs easy thats never happend before unless you had a guild pug= 0 gear from guild content. I can only olay odd days weird hours ti me game is awesome. 54 you get without trying from playing the game if you started at launch you got it atleast 4 weeks ago. Legendarys not neefed unless youre mythic. My os balace 41 trait prydaz and tanking feet no problem doing 500k+. 54 and legos is getting fixed in 7 2.

[Twdft]

Not wanting to play a 100 hours a week doesn't mean you don't want to be able to completely things. Since BC as long as you were competent at the game you could do anything it had to offer in a limited time frame. Now they are doubling down on AP and making it so in their minds nobody can finish it. Of course just like the start of Legion when they didn't think people would cap out weapons right away causing them to massively lower AP rewards in mythic + they have dropped the ball again.

Artifact Power was never meant to be "finishable", AP is the answer to "there is nothing to do" after an expansion went on for a while. There are about 1000 players in the whole world for whom finishing it is kinda required (contestants in world first race) but for everyone else it offers game content whenever they log in. Diminishing returns on AP farm is meant to save you from your compulsive self, the fact that they increase it means that too many people can't control themselves and play unhealthy hours for unnecessary power gains.