Great news: Employers are allowed to ban burquas!

[Deleted]

Yes, to think of it, I've never ever seen a woman wear a burqa outside UAE. Maybe it is different in Europe, but in the US, Canada and Australia I've barely even seen anyone wear hijab, and never niqab/burqa. Don't think this verdict was worth the taxpayers' money spent on its consideration.

Well it was only taken into consideration because two muslim women thought that company rules shouldn't apply to them and tried to sue their employer.

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No we don't: the only reason that burqas and hijabs have been mentioned in this article is because 2 women who wanted to be able to wear them in the workplace after being told they couldn't, decided to take the matter to court. Where they lost. The court didn't say 'burqas are banned lol fu!', the court said 'employers in Europe have the right to decide if people can display religious icons openly or not, as they see fit'.

Unfortunately a very, very badly chosen and seemingly deliberately inflammatory title has meant that very few of the people commenting here have actually gone and looked at the actual ruling.

I did ask a mod for the title to be changed for that reason, but they rather keep it like this

[Deleted]

that's why I don't speculate on my gut feeling on top of my biases because when the BBC did it's research they concluded that the percentage of people wearing it's such a small percentage that a person has to wonder why governments are pushing for policies and discussions involving the burka.

Well what the BBC has to say about the UK is honestly largely irrelevant to Sweden I have to say.

Not to mention you don't know my field, for all you know I could be an Imam and maybe I interact with 100+ people in burqa, niqab and chador every day.

[munkeyinorbit]

I agree with the ruling. In Western society this kind of symbol of oppression should not be tolerated.

I agree with the ruling but I'm not a bigot who doesn't understand the headscarfs.

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Well what the BBC has to say about the UK is honestly largely irrelevant to Sweden I have to say.

Not to mention you don't know my field, for all you know I could be an Imam and maybe I interact with 100+ people in burqa, niqab and chador every day.

but you don't.

[Deleted]

The law or the article?

The articles obviously, but I generally meant what people want to see disappear. Then there's also the people saying they find it good because of oppression, but that's just a simple excuse imo.

[Bubblebeard]

The law or the article?

The article is about headscarfs, niqabs and burqas are forbidden by law.

[ati87]

Well what the BBC has to say about the UK is honestly largely irrelevant to Sweden I have to say.

Not to mention you don't know my field, for all you know I could be an Imam and maybe I interact with 100+ people in burqa, niqab and chador every day.

Pff will link it again and is the difference a proper argument and what you just did, I already linked this article before and I will do this again but this is what a actual argument looks like instead of making wild claims without backing it up with a single bit of proof.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-13038095

They include multiply European countries, so maybe Sweden is the exception of the exception but then it's up to you to proof that after I showed you that at least in multiply countries the number of women covering their entire face is a stupid low percentage that it doesn't justify any action unless you can proof that they are being oppressed.

Only an estimated 150 women wear the full niqab in Austria
France has about five million Muslims - the largest Muslim minority in Western Europe - but it is thought only about 2,000 women wear full veils.
Around 5% of the Netherlands' 16 million residents are Muslims, but only around 300 are thought to wear the niqab or the burka. The wearing of headscarves is far more common, however.

You know I'm not asking for much when I ask people to show me credible sources

[Slant]

If its not religious why do these people claim their religious freedom is oppressed when they cant wear it. Maybe someone should tell them its a cultural thing.

Propaganda. Religion being abused as a tool to oppress. I've said it before, I'll say it again in the future... Islam isn't the problem. It's extremists picking the first available ideology to opress people.

[Deleted]

The articles obviously, but I generally meant what people want to see disappear. Then there's also the people saying they find it good because of oppression, but that's just a simple excuse imo.

Secularism has been a thing for a long time, also in dress codes. That is why you barely see any Christian religious symbols either - they are already removed from the work places. Muslim symbols are a much more recent attire in Western Countries, and it is simply being treated the same way other religious symbols have been treated for a long time. It isn't because burqas or head scarfs should disappear altogether, it is because Islam should not be treated better than other religions.

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The article is about headscarfs, niqabs and burqas are forbidden by law.

Which law?

[Elim Garak]

Propaganda. Religion being abused as a tool to oppress. I've said it before, I'll say it again in the future... Islam isn't the problem. It's extremists picking the first available ideology to opress people.

If there are readily available ideologies that are spread over millions of people - they are the problem. Imagine what would extremists do without such ideologies? They will have to invent their own and convince people to follow it. Zero success chance.

[Slant]

If there are readily available ideologies that are spread over millions of people - they are the problem. Imagine what would extremists do without such ideologies? They will have to invent their own and convince people to follow it. Zero success chance.

If it hadn't been Islam, it would have been something else. Anti-westernism has worked well for them in the past. Heck, if they were Christian, we'd probably have the same conversation about Arabic-Orthodox Christianity right now. But hey, continue to blame it on Islam, where billions of people just about manage to get through their daily lives without feeding the religious hunger to slaughter unbelievers that Islam is teaching them...

[Elim Garak]

If it hadn't been Islam, it would have been something else. Anti-westernism has worked well for them in the past. Heck, if they were Christian, we'd probably have the same conversation about Arabic-Orthodox Christianity right now. But hey, continue to blame it on Islam, where billions of people just about manage to get through their daily lives without feeding the religious hunger to slaughter unbelievers that Islam is teaching them...

I don't blame it on Islam, I agree with you on this - that's why I said "ideologies" and not Islam. Christianity is as bad. So is Judaism and Hinduism and whatever are the next 10 religions with the most infected.

it's just Islam is the current go to ideology for extremists so it makes no point focusing on any other.

[Deleted]

Wrong. Some muslims do, not "certain ethnic groups". Ergo, it's not racism.

If it makes you sleep better at night then call it whatever the fuck you want. I for one believe that certain people should not be intentionally subjected to harassment, discrimination and hate based on any reason whatsoever.

[nocturnus]

But we all know it's just aimed at burqas or hijabs though.

Oh, we do?

No, that's merely what you assume.

Actually type of hijab is very much dependent on ethnicity. Hijab in Aryan dominated places of muslim world is vastly different than hijab in let's say Arab dominated places

Yes, a Turkish hijab fits loosely around the forehead creating a kind of cap, while a Moroccan hijab hugs the forehead tightly. You have pink ones, black ones, blue ones and polka-dot ones, Ferragamo ones, GAP ones and C&A ones. Would you care to explain why this is relevant to the conversation?

If it makes you sleep better at night then call it whatever the fuck you want. I for one believe that certain people should not be intentionally subjected to harassment, discrimination and hate based on any reason whatsoever.

Do you cry harassment when your employer asks you to wear a tie to work? Do you think religious people deserve special treatment? I don't. Companies have the right to implement a dress code and you are obliged to respect it if you want to work there, whether you're religious or not.

This reminds me of a guy that refused to cut his rasta hair and cried "racism" when his application was denied.

It's so easy to take distance from any responsibility when you have the racism card to play and that card is played a lot.

[Allatar]

Which law?

Pretty sure they are banned in public in Belgium and France.

[nocturnus]

Pretty sure they are banned in public in Belgium and France.

I would check your sources if I were you.

[Allatar]

Do you cry harassment when your employer asks you to wear a tie to work? [/U][/B].

I do, every summer when I am forced to continue and every one of my colleagues who are all female get to dress in summer clothes, often looking they are going to the beach :P Never gets me anywhere though . . . . . .

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I would check your sources if I were you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French..._face_covering

Ergo, burqas are banned in public in France.

[nocturnus]

I do, every summer when I am forced to continue and every one of my colleagues who are all female get to dress in summer clothes, often looking they are going to the beach :P Never gets me anywhere though . . . . . .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French..._face_covering

Ergo, burqas are banned in public in France.

I repeat, check your sources. The reply was based on this remark:

The article is about headscarfs, niqabs and burqas are forbidden by law.

You can't just present some assumption as a fact, merely because said assumption has a minor element of truth hidden in it. Furthermore, the law isn't aimed at burqas, niqabs or muslims in general, but at anyone covering their face.

You people seriously need to work on your comprehensive reading skills. The assumpions made in these knee-jerk reactions are rather appalling.

[Maconi]

I'm not allowed to wear anything on my head at work. Hell, we have a bald guy who had to sit right under an AC duct and they wouldn't even let him wear anything to keep warm (they moved him instead). I don't see why an employer should be forced to let you wear headwear just because of culture/religion.

[Mehrunes]

They include multiply European countries, so maybe Sweden is the exception of the exception but then it's up to you to proof that after I showed you that at least in multiply countries the number of women covering their entire face is a stupid low percentage that it doesn't justify any action unless you can proof that they are being oppressed.

The thing is, no one is making any action on policy level (you mentioned policies on burqas before) aimed at burqas alone. French ban is just an effect of anti-mask law. This ruling is about all religious and philosophical symbols. So yes, burqas may be rare, but when it comes to policy they are just a part of larger whole that the policy is about.

[Deleted]

Do you cry harassment when your employer asks you to wear a tie to work? Do you think religious people deserve special treatment? I don't. Companies have the right to implement a dress code and you are obliged to respect it if you want to work there, whether you're religious or not.

This reminds me of a guy that refused to cut his rasta hair and cried "racism" when his application was denied.

It's so easy to take distance from any responsibility when you have the racism card to play and that card is played a lot.

No, but I was responding to a guy who believes any employer should simply decline to employ any muslim that applies and then lie about their reasons.