7.2 spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[shadousita]

maiev will cross with naisha in the raid?

[TheFirstOnes]

maiev will cross with naisha in the raid?

No. She dies for a Raid WQ, similar to the WQ peeps in Nighthold.....

[Zulkhan]

While begging, literally begging Thrall to make him Warchief.

What?

In Cata he's actually made Warchief and actually acts like a Warchief, executing a general for committing a warcrime.

Yep, because that's the ONLY thing he did for the whole time period. Kappa.

In MoP he's enslaving humans, forcing them to fight each other for sport

Those weren't slaves, were prisoners of war. The Kor'kron went overboard and abused them to a fault. You wouldn't find that so shocking or surprising if you read Tides of War and learned to which extents the Kor'kron were willing to abuse their own people if they had a good reason to do it. People were beaten up or magically "disappeared" for showing dissent towards Garrosh's politics.

shit that the humans of Lordaeron literally did to the Orcs

And? When Garrosh cared about humans ever? He barely cared about anything in the first place. He was always kind of self-centered and when he became Warchief that flaw gradually yet constantly escalated.

Going on mad racist powertrips about Orc superiority, full on drinking old god blood and going insane about world conquest.

Read Wolfheart. Garrosh's first and greater ambition was uniting Azeroth under the Horde's banner, from the very first day he became Warchief.

In WoD he's "You made me what I am!"

Which makes perfect sense. Of course simply blaming Thrall is dishonest and clearly an attempt of Garrosh of scapegoating his own faults, but there's a degree of truth in that.

You have to be on full on psychadelic drugs to think Garrosh is a good character.

For Warcraft's standards his development was one of the best, compared to others. Then again, if you ignore posts addressing you and hand-waving the fact that you most obviously didn't read shit outside the game and therefore lack the means to offer grounded criticism I guess it can't be helped. Again, go a read about Jaina as much as Garrosh and compare that material with the one in-game. You'll see who's the vastly more inconsistent character of the two.

Grom was never irrational. Grom never sold out his own people, we see what happens when he knows what the demon blood actually does, the second time he drank it, he had already drank it once and was addicted.

So aside from the gross paint with one brush you did I'll try to elaborate on where you were wrong.

Grom accepts his faults, both in Lord of the clans and Warcraft 3, Garrosh on the other hand does not. Grom had a strong character, he didn't ever need others to make himself feel whole, the opposite of Garrosh. When they thought they lost everything, Garrosh became depressed and sank into lethargy, Grom kept fighting and refused to let his warsong fall back into the bloodcurse. Even their deaths are opposites. Grom talks about freeing himself, Garrosh dies blaming everyone but himself. IF you honestly think Grom and Garrosh were the same character, you need to read up on both of them again. Hell they even are the opposites physically.

Grom may have shared a few similarities in his youth with Garrosh (the pride and the self-centerdness) but in the end he still gave an actual shit about people, even though in his own misguided way. Garrosh on the other hand seemed a lot like a Gul'dan, a borderline sociopath. He always seemed unable to give a damn about anyone but himself, even though his upbringing initially put him on the right direction (which he promtly lost the moment he was left to handle things by his own).

In Lord of the Clans and everything after that however Grom grows drastically different from Garrosh in basically all aspects (minus the stubborness maybe) at that point in time he's more a victim of the blood curse than anything else. That's why Thrall has a legit point when he says that Garrosh pretty much shitted on his father's legacy.

I'll not address the fact that Garrosh was an insecure trainwreck where Grom wasn't since you did that pretty well yourself.

[Eazy]

THIS sentence from the broken shore preview has me worried
"Victory against the legion and Kil'jaeden is nearly assured"

Combined with the raid finder KJ wing subtitle "are we playing into the deceiver's hands," are the heroes of Azeroth getting too headstrong? What is possibly in store for us?

Too strong? Not really. We needed help to kill Deathwing/LK etc. We're going to need Velen/Illidan/Khadgar help with Kil'jaeden.

What's left in store for us? Azshara, N'Zoth, old gods, Sargeras, titans(maybe?), void lords etc.

[TheFirstOnes]

@Zulkhan

What you just said there.....


Let's be friends....

[Qualia]

THIS sentence from the broken shore preview has me worried
"Victory against the legion and Kil'jaeden is nearly assured"

Combined with the raid finder KJ wing subtitle "are we playing into the deceiver's hands," are the heroes of Azeroth getting too headstrong? What is possibly in store for us?

Seeing it came from the creators instead of any in-game character, we likely can take it at face value. So, no, we aren't (technically, it's just "nearly assured" instead of "assured", but since we know roughly how ToS would go, it's unlikely we'd fall into any major trap of KJ).

[TheFirstOnes]

THIS sentence from the broken shore preview has me worried
"Victory against the legion and Kil'jaeden is nearly assured"

Combined with the raid finder KJ wing subtitle "are we playing into the deceiver's hands," are the heroes of Azeroth getting too headstrong? What is possibly in store for us?

Well, judging from the fact that it sounds like he'll be bringing out a SHIT-LOAD of adds to fight us, while he uses his ultimate attacks which open gravitational rifts toward reality, it sounds like Kil'jaeden starts the fight testing us, only for us to defeat his deceiving ideals on his ship, which will make kil'jaeden go ALL OUT, have his ship go to argus, only for him to fall not because of our might, but because of some Deus Ex friend-ship BS....


Honestly, I think the "Trap" is the space-ship. Remember, Kil'jaeden doesn't fight alone, but we don't know this, cause this is the second time we've fought him (The first time was in a room, where he barely had enough help to begin with), we're too head-strong. I think he'll summon in a BUNCH of adds, while he's fighting, he'll use our own evilness to fight us, we fight through his deceiving skills, and at the end of the fight, he'll try to escape, only for velen to take him from behind, killing him.

But that's just my theory....

- - - Updated - - -

Too strong? Not really. We needed help to kill Deathwing/LK etc. We're going to need Velen/Illidan/Khadgar help with Kil'jaeden.

What's left in store for us? Azshara, N'Zoth, old gods, Sargeras, titans(maybe?), void lords etc.

Honestly, yeah.

Sure, blizzard may find ANY other new story for WOW, but what's after fighting a Planet Busting God, Or an Endless Void? We have none....

[Eazy]

Sure, blizzard may find ANY other new story for WOW, but what's after fighting a Planet Busting God, Or an Endless Void? We have none....

We're right now on the Kil'jaeden part and we're not sure if we're going to kill him, so there are still plenty of options... They have at least two more expansions(Azshara/seas(+maybe N'Zoth) + Void Lords). Keeping in mind that each of them can take ~3 years, we can easily say that WoW is going to be still active in the next 6 years, which gives them plenty of time to think about the new challenges(or challenges between, MoP was totally out of the blue comparing to our main goal which was destroying Legion/Old Gods).

[TheFirstOnes]

We're right now on the Kil'jaeden part and we're not sure if we're going to kill him, so there are still plenty of options... They have at least two more expansions(Azshara/seas(+maybe N'Zoth) + Void Lords). Keeping in mind that each of them can take ~3 years, we can easily say that WoW is going to be still active in the next 6 years, which gives them plenty of time to think about the new challenges(or challenges between, MoP was totally out of the blue comparing to our main goal which was destroying Legion/Old Gods).

Yeah, sorry. I just don't see Kil'jaeden running, not at all.

I'm seriously hoping he's not the final boss of Legion. Would be a BIG waste to have him as the last boss in 2 raids.

Atleast during the deathwing fight, the red bastard was in the same raid.

I mean, this is raid #2 of battling Kil'jaeden. I really don't want a third raid, as to where either KJ, or BOTH Arch/KJ pop up, and attempt to end us....

I'll take ANYTHING before battling those 2 again in 7.3...

[TheFirstOnes]

If he is at 10% and we zone in on Argus and he doesn't fly away with a cinematic showing the full might of the Legion preparing to drill us a new one, I'll be disappointed.

If he stays alive, only for him to be the final boss of the LAST raid, i'll be even more dissapointed....

Show us the legion's full might, have him try to escape, have KJ stab him, and have him fall into argus' Debree....

[Shampro]

If he is at 10% and we zone in on Argus and he doesn't fly away with a cinematic showing the full might of the Legion preparing to drill us a new one, I'll be disappointed.

Kinda funny to read two completely different things from people, those who want to get pounded by the legion (again) and those that want to basicly end it.

It shows that no matter what Blizzard does, someone will end up complaning.

[Dagoth Ur]

If he is at 10% and we zone in on Argus and he doesn't fly away with a cinematic showing the full might of the Legion preparing to drill us a new one, I'll be disappointed.

I will be dissapointed if Legion doesn't kick our asses on Argus. I know they keep repeating how big defeat Broken shore was but so far invasion feels like it was contained even before it properly started. If Legion keeps being pushover even on Argus than Blizz will really ruin them for me.

[Dagoth Ur]

It's possible to have both though. Let us be stranded on Argus, our portals shut, our ship shot down. Then Turalyon shows up and extracts us to a safepoint. Maybe A'dal took Tempest Keep and went off to help the Army of Light, which is somehow hidden from view with Naaru technology; the demons were looking for Netherlight Temple for ages before they found it's location probably by torturing one of our acolytes in Niskara, so the Naaru do have the technology to hide something, it could even be shifted into the Nether?).
We find it is hopeless to think we can ever defeat the might of the Legion in a straight fight but there is a plan to blow up Argus, if only someone can distract the Legion leadership. The raid is a suicide attack in the Palace of Kil'jaeden (unlocked after constant reconaisance in Mac'Aree that works like Suramar elite area; your masquerade drops and you are dead) while the dungeon is about flying the Mechanar into core of Argus and crushing setting it on course to crash with the planet's exposed core.

Yeah I agree with your posts above. It should be Phyric victory in the end. I want it to be like when we step into Argus we immideatly say NOPE I WANNA GO BACK PLS. It should feel like we're stranded & over our heads and in the end our victory was something so desparate god knows how we managed to pull it off.

[Maxilian]

I think the problem is going to be mostly in the fact that we will leave Azeroth for X amount of time, and we know that the Old Gods are coming thanks to the different references in game (shadow priest being one of them), and when we come back, however the Old Gods power is going to be shown, it will be too late to stop it, we will basically come from a war full of scars only to run into another at our own home.

[Polybius]

*snip*

We should kill Tyrande and get Illidan overwith.

Throw Light's Heart (Xe'ra) in a ditch too.

[Dagoth Ur]

And it should involve sacrifice. Velen and/or maybe a Naaru (but keep A'dal for the Void Lords, it could blow itself up when N'zoth manages to open a portal to the void so a Void Lord can manifest on Azeroth), either Alleria or Turalyon, at least one of our class champions,

You and I understand each other dude . For villains to feel threatning there has to be some losses on our side too (not just one), victory has to be earned. I never understood players who just want to be like One punch man and just have evergrowing list of names they defeated.

[Shampro]

The Army of the Light is currently getting pushed back aswell, as we might recall from the Turalyon cinematic. I think that should be the most particulary interesting thing, this army that probably spawns different civilizations are currently on the brink of being wiped out, I always thought they were going to be the ones saving us, not our efforts saving them, and frankly I prefer how they're doing it. This Army should have super experienced people in it aswell as people super linked to the Light in general, are losing and only by us supporting them they didn't get destroyed.

[Dagoth Ur]

The Army of the Light is currently getting pushed back aswell, as we might recall from the Turalyon cinematic. I think that should be the most particulary interesting thing, this army that probably spawns different civilizations are currently on the brink of being wiped out, I always thought they were going to be the ones saving us, not our efforts saving them, and frankly I prefer it that way. The Army should have super experienced people in it aswell as people super linked to the Light in general, are losing and only by us supporting them they didn't get destroyed.

This. It always felt strange to me that our leaders are so bent on going to Argus alone thinking they can defeat Legion there. We shold first try to contact this Army of Light we kept hearing about, negotiate some kind of allliance etc etc, not just rush in heart of Burning Legion territory like morons.

Not saying it's going to go like this, but Velen saying "that's enough we're going to Argus" sounds so stupid to me. Like you can just park Exordar on Argus and begin kickiing ass left and right. I know he said it in heat of the moment but going on Argus has to be the most dangerous thing we will try in WoW, it has to be planed and coordinated with Army of Light. It would be cool if Army of Light has some kind of cave system-hideouts because it's too dangerous on surface.

[iamthedevil]

The Army of the Light is currently getting pushed back aswell, as we might recall from the Turalyon cinematic. I think that should be the most particulary interesting thing, this army that probably spawns different civilizations are currently on the brink of being wiped out, I always thought they were going to be the ones saving us, not our efforts saving them, and frankly I prefer how they're doing it. This Army should have super experienced people in it aswell as people super linked to the Light in general, are losing and only by us supporting them they didn't get destroyed.

What I like about it is that it *should* have some races in it that we have never seen before. If it's a last patch thing, hopefully the army will include new models that have been made for the next expansion. Maybe even some updated Ethereal that have joined.

[Shampro]

What I like about it is that it *should* have some races in it that we have never seen before. If it's a last patch thing, hopefully the army will include new models that have been made for the next expansion. Maybe even some updated Ethereal that have joined.

Maybe we'll see 1 or 2 races but I think it'll mainly be composed of Draenei, and even more demons like Lothraxion. I mainly see it composed of Eredar because Turalyon is refered to as ''Exarch''.